Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

No because schools now usually supply free yearly licenses for their students (like autoCAD or Solidworks etc)

Of course, some schools don't do that :p

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Sometimes getting free software is just getting into the right place at the right time.

A former employer once got rid of AutoCAD. They tossed everything they had into a dumpster. A friend of mine rescued a lot of it. In the pile I found a brand new unregistered AutoCAD 13. Nice.

A few years later I was managing CAD activity for another employer. We had decided to switch from Solidworks to Pro/ENGINEER (not my choice). To try to win us back, the SW salesman gave me 5 licensed sets of Solidworks 2000. My employer didn't want them. I kept one, and made 4 good friends with the rest. :D

Best advice: keep your eyes open. Deals happen.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Wait a second.. how the hell is dumpster diving to obtain the software any better than anything else being discussed?

As you stated, in bold, previously: You pay for the right to USE it... you are still circumventing that by Dumpster Diving.

In the computer security world, dumpster diving is a form of Social Engineering and typically is a stepping stone to a form of hacking.

Dumpster diving to grab software, and then using said software, is just as much a form of piracy as taking it off the shelf, downloading it, copying it, whatever.

YOU still didn't pay for it.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

I'll never admit to having stolen/pirated anything while in college.... Now that I am a professional I do buy my software as i use it to make money. However I would have never become a professional if i didn't do, what i never, while in school.

Not really an answer, just food for thought that maybe the software companies really do, in the long term, profit from piracy.

In regards to the poll, I voted no.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Relax there fatalsaint.

There is a HUGE difference. I didn't walk into a store and steal it. I didn't illegally download it. In the dumpster example, a company paid for it, then threw it away. My friend kept it from becoming landfill material.

No theft whatsoever. No security threat (really, WTF?). A simple rescue.

I'm amazed you're even making an issue out of that.

EDIT: in the dumpster situation, the company involved paid for the privilege, so there was no net loss to the software provider. The purchasing company then abidicated that privilege.

Let me make myself clear: my opinion is based on what's legal/illegal, nonharmful/harmful or fair/unfair. Note that those principles get more nebulous as you go left to right.

And when I said we "pay for the privilege (not actually right) to use the software", I mean that specific to USE, NOT PAY. In other words, identifying what is being paid for, not saying one must always pay for the privilege (that would work against FLOSS).

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

a) Just because I don't want it doesn't mean anyone can have it. Generally speaking, of course.

b) Not all that is discarded is open salvage. Correct me if I'm wrong.

c) If throwing away and recovery is legal, then so should lending, donating and resale as second hand. They aren't, especially in the software league. Many an example where second hand software is denied access, updates, support.

If I were, I'd be able to claim my right to the content at any time. I can't. If I have a tape version of a song, downloading it in a torrent would still get me axed.

If I were, I 'd get a discount in the CD store because I already bought the material and only need to pay the support.

If I were, I wouldn't be limited to the number of times I can download the same song. Nor would I be to the number of installs I can have. Nor would the functioning of my software be tied intentionally to the physical support.

If I buy a CD, I don't get the second at a discount. It may work like that in theory, but in practice nobody gives a flying rat about that because we don't have a say.

--

And Devil's Advocate on the forums or not, if there's anything I actually hate and would pick up arms against is injustice. Can't stand it. And say what you will, companies cut a lot of corners and nobody cares because they have expenses and mass production to take care of, so, you know, cut them some slack. Who cuts the buyer some "slack", legally? We don't have expenses? I pay from my pocket for every failed marketing campaign out there. They all add up to "advertising". No questions asked.

Some out there actually have a word they stick to. Others are simply and insanely hell bent on thrusting on the general area of the customer's seating arrangements.

After paying something like minimum wage for a game, they make me watch commercials (COMMERCIALS!) before I can play. Every time. No skips. Illegal to modify the file.

Tie my game to a support that poor quality and sheds the paint layer.

Deny me the right to play because my card is special. Cripple my experience by requiring me to play online and forcing me to wait through updates. Actively breaks my game by updating it even though it never asked.

Is it wrong to circumvent these people? Yes. Illegal? Yes. Will I?

Most are domestic. All perishable goods that aren't insanely prices are at least prepared here. 99% are at least packaged here due to mandatory language instruction limits. Once you go over a certain volume it's actually a bad idea to carry them over.

The few that aren't are from neighbor countries. It's not like shipping from Texas to New Mexico. It's shipping from Texas to Niger.

And even if you ship it at great personal cost. Let's see you ask $2.99 for a burger there. Who's gonna pay for it?

Read it again. I'm not hung up on moral ground, as I said, it's OK to give advice and serve as an example. But if you start to uphold righteousness, you will be reminded of it. Simple as that.

Serving as an example is not hypocrisy. Pillaging at home while posting it's wrong is.

Never said it wasn't valid. If a thief that is now rich from stealing says it's wrong to steal, he's right. Point is valid. It's not OK to steal.

Let me inflict on to you some of the ambiguity I face trying to get a point across. ls it "ok" for a thief, that has a wallet in his hands, to join a crowd and scream for the hanging of another thief, just because the latter has been caught?

Let that settle a little and you'll see that the whole answer truely hinges on what "ok" is. Because if the poll was "is it moral to steal" or "is it legal to steal", votes would be 99-1 (because there's always one).

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

I won't argue with you on a and b. But you're mistaken on c.

You're confusing legalities with policy. Lending, donating, giving away, reselling are not always issues of legality. Companies FAILED in their attempts to make it so in the US. Ergo, Blockbuster, Gamestop, Half Price Books and others can resell software LEGALLY.

Often companies forbid users from trading OEM and similar licenses, but again: NOT a legal issue.
You're grossly misconstruing what copyright is. I erred in use of the word "right". A better term to describe this is privilege.

Copyright means conveying upon another person the privilege to use the content in prescribed manners. Now, I think current copyright law is a travesty in many ways, but I agree with the core principles. I do think usage terms should be expanded. Maybe with the next generation... :rolleyes:

Of course copyright can be transferred to another entity. Different subject.

As for support, it would be nice if it was transferrable, but I doubt we'll ever see that happen. Logistical issues.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

The US has the luxury of being able to grow a lot of its own food but some of it does come from other countries. I'm not sure why we're on this tangent, but the point is, the whole world has enough food for the world. This is an issue for the world not just the US.

Not talking about burgers. We're talking about basic foods, grain, rice and other raw ingredients.

This is why I don't like internet discussions. Who is talking about anyone getting hung? I just don't think yelling for someone to be hung is a good idea even if you're in the right. I will stand for the rights of and protect the person who was stolen from all day long but I think we as a society can be better off if we can resolve issues without having to scream for anyone to be hung. I'm not sure how that solves anything.

Maybe we need to take it down a notch. This is a discussion that has practical affects on artists and software developers and the industry as a whole, let's stick to that and leave the moral high ground and hangings out of it.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Round and round we go because you only look back, I try to see what's ahead. You think that for-profit pharma companies are gonna save our health by spending billions on chemistry? Well, think again. How much money did the inventor of penicillin make from selling it? Also, have a look at this as some food for thought:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcetrapib

Who do you think payed for that trial?

All above notwithstanding, drug research is a little to the side of this discussion, because even derivative drugs need to be produced and sold by someone other than the end consumer, and they are a physical product.

Just because you and I cannot describe in detail a winning economy model where IP is free today, doesn't mean that it's not going to happen tomorrow. You are defending a dinosaur...

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Quick: what problem led to the creation of IP protection laws?

:D

(for fun, my old article on IP: https://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.co...-for-my-ideas/)

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

I'm not a big fan of the drug companies, but right now I don't know who's going to pay for these scientists? Universities and governments? I'd love for the biggest brains on the planet to be paid to solve big problems instead of making drug companies rich, but I still live in reality today.

Can free IP be part of a future that is also capitalist and not socialist / communist? I hope so. Until then, I have no problems defending a dinosaur, if that means defending software developers and artists. When the new world comes, happy to move along.

I think you should start the new movement of free IP. Maybe it'll start with a T-shirt questioning the status quo...

"IP freely, do you?"

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

LOL! I also P freely, thank God. Hopefully still will after 30-40 years :D

Cheers!

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

For me in 30-40 years my t-shirt will be

"I can't help it. IP freely"

the back of my shirt will be

"Caution! Slippery road ahead"

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

If you only have one dollar in your pocket it is ok to steal your lunch by me. It's a matter of self preservations.

Software piracy on the other hand is not something you'll die if you don't do it. Also today, you can live just fine by using free software. So I don't think that not having enough money is a good excuse.
________
NAUGHTYSCHOOLTEEN

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

1. MS sells you a license of windows -- this is a service. It is physically impossible to use 3 computers at a time, yet I am forced to have 3 windows licenses (I do have them btw)
2. Apple forbids you to install their OS on non Apple Hardware. Say that I bought a Mac and then threw it in the sea. I still have right to use the software. Why can't I install it on a same spec'ed pc?
3. Gaming companies make it impossible to backup your cd. If it gets scratched they offer to send you another one and bill you the shipping cost. I am allowed by law to have one backup copy (why only one? It's a service I bought)
4, Unethical is something is generally considered wrong. This thread is proof that piracy is not generally considered wrong
5. Why software companies are just so relaxed against piracy by individuals? Couldn't each update break the cracking methods? Usually is just a cracked exe. My opinion: those methods are there only to make some people to think their time trying to crack the program is worth more than the price of it.
6. If you got 5 copies of a program and you paid for 4 of them? Last week it had an offer for the 4/5ths of the price...
7. It is illegal to sell a used software. Why? (Check autodesk - chinese ebayer case)

I 'm not saying I believe it's ok. It's not ok, but the practices of software companies are not ok too.
________
Vaporizer Wiki

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

thats a very difficile question.

from my own experience i can say, that most of the software that people pirate, they definitely would NOT have bought it if they didnt pirate it.

if there is a program i like (and i know that beforehand), i buy it straight away. if there is a program i'm not sure about, i download and try it. if i like it, i buy it. if i dont, i'll uninstall it and case closed.

now i know most anti-pirating people declare such a statement as an excuse for people to pirate software, but there actually are people who really just "pirate" for demoing purposes to get an opinion.

no one's going to buy a car without the obligatory test-drive, right?

not sure how it is law-wise...
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/126/mehro1119.gif

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

I guess the other thing that really makes pirating a crime is if you profit from it's use or redistribution. I don't think there is any argument there.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

is it ok when i steal your phone because i want one and dont hv money?

just because pircay is easy it is not legal....
when you dont hv money you also cant buy a ferrari.....
so you cant get sowftare when you dont hv money...

buy hey.... dont panic. ... i m a pirate too....

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

A few comments:

First, one minor comment: I am under the impression you use IP and copyright interchangeably, while what only talk about copyright. Remember that IP is a wide umbrella term, referring to a whole bunch of different stuff, including copyright, patents, trademarks, trade secrets and more. Each of these comes with its own issue (especially software patents). So just to set the record straight: we're talking about copyright and only copyright.

Now, you ask what was the problem that let to the creation of copyright in the first place. And in this regard I want to point out two things: First, it was a different era and the circumstances where different. And second, copyright was designed to strike a balance between the creator's needs and the public needs, a balance which is it no longer maintain.

Back than, copyright was designed to protect authors of books that where printed and sold commercially, printing was costly and copyright term was 14 years. Since than, a lot changed:

1. Copyright term was extended to life+70 years and 95 years for corporate authorship.
2. In the past, you had to register your work to get copyright protection. Now, everything is copyrighted, automatically, by default. Even my stupid comments here. Even if I never intended to get any financial gain from my work in the first place. This, together with term extension, contributed to the death of the public domain.
3. Copyright was extended to a lot of stuff, including things such as collections.
4. The concept of derivative work evolved and became quite extensive. You might violate copyright even if you use quite abstract elements from another work, such as sequence or structure. This hinders the ability to create and distribute original works which are based on other works.
5. When printing was costly, it did make a lot of sense to give a monopoly to the content creator. Since it already cost money to prepare a copy, books where an inherently scarce resource. Now that the production of a digital copy costs close to nothing, copyright leads to artificial scarcity and unnecessarily limits availability and access to cultural products.

All I want is to return the balance that was long lost. I am not sure what alternative viable solution there is to copyright, but at least I would like to:
1. Reduce the term of copyright back to a reasonable time frame (say, 15-20 years) - give enough time to the author to make profit from his work, but make sure we would have public domain.
2. Require registering your work. If your motivation is profit and you want the protection of the law, you need to do some minimal effort. Copyright should be an opt-in option (and not opt-out).
3. Use a much narrower definition for derivative work that allows non-verbatim copying in case it does not directly hinders the market value of the original work.
4. Use compulsory licensing schemes to alleviate the problem of artificial scarcity.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

I'm well aware of what the terms mean and don't use them interchangeably, but thanks.

I'm also aware of the other details you cite. And I agree that recent copyright "reform" has been reactionary and overdone. It would be nice to see sense applied to the law but I'm not optimistic.

EDIT: one quibble-- printing costs aren't the only issue for the content creator. Even as replication and distribution costs have come down and opportunities broadened, the time necessary to create valuable content hasn't changed much if at all. That's what I would like to be compensated for.

In addition, ironically, the steady income erosion caused by piracy and other infringements has made it increasingly difficult for independent content creators to make a living at their craft just as the means to get work out to mass audiences dramatically improved. I had planned to "retire" as a writer at this point in life. Not going to happen.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

@sela: I completely agree with your sentiments. When one has taken the time to understand 'both camps', then most likely they'll come to the conclusion that a middle ground (such that you've proposed) should be struck to maintain all the benefits of copyright protection yet keep them in check from blowing it out of proportion.

Unfortunately some people trying to justify their unethical actions take up the similar side without actually knowing what's on stake.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

That's a bad argument for an OS that ships with SMB, Remote desktop, www, ftp, telnet servers, support for AD. Leaving it up is using it. At this rate, all servers and dedicated machines would be free.

On Office, e.g., the number of install varies on edition, some allow a PC and a laptop, other up to 3 devices.

Bringing Apple into this is like bringing a gun to a match of chess.

[QUOTE=qwazix;828299]5. Why software companies are just so relaxed against piracy by individuals? Couldn't each update break the cracking methods? Usually is just a cracked exe. [QUOTE]

They do all the time. That's why updates come patched through torrents. And because most cracks also kill the auto-update.

Afraid Texrat is right on this one. It's not illegal, there's no law against it. This is something a company imposes on you and, lacking a law that says you can, they can sue for breach of terms. Also, jurisdiction couunts. I'd like to see them pull that elsewhere.

And we're back to lobby and pressure.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Huh? An even split in voting? As was said, theft is theft. Would you consider walking into a store and walking out with a boxed version?

Also, not having money is a pretty weak excuse. If the software is really important, you could save up to purchase it -- just as you would for any other product.

Entrepreneurs invest and people work hard to develop intellectual property. If you developed intellectual property, how would you feel if people who "felt they could not afford the software" pirated it?

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Well its not theft and second of all it should be legal, in sweden with bahnhof you can not get caught :)

And second of all it should not matter if you are poor or rich... If it is legal it should be for all people and not discriminate the rich

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Pirating software is illegal period... however..

If one was under the direct oppression of an unforgiving institution/government- let's say one that functions to keep their people in a completely ignorant or academically limited state- then pirating is understandable.

It is understandable for someone to pirate physics texts because they want to understand the laws of nature; and for clarification, this pirating is understandable only if the government or society they live in wants to prevent the advancement of scholarly knowledge... this kind of oppression directly limits the quality of the human experience.

In cases that are not this extreme, like most cases, pirating is not okay. I'm a financially constrained university student and I, too, am guilty of pirating several study aids/software...

When situations are not as extreme as the aforementioned, creativity must be utilized.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Im gonna catch hell for this but i dont really care .. I dont believe it to be a source of lost income because i wouldnt have bought it anyway. I dont think its stealing since there is no taking of a physical item its a copy of a copy .. movies.. music.. software...n900 apps... if it is good enough i will buy it as is evident from my 60 bluerays I have at home even tho I still download and if i see it and i think its worth the 30 bucks then yes i will purchase it.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

People pay to watch a movie (we're not even talking about acquiring the dvd/bluray/digital release) for the experience; be it to see their favorite/hated actors, to look at the visuals, enjoy the plot, find out about the twist endings, or even 'just to know what everyone else is talking about'.

You just need to watch it once, to reap most of its value.

Don't tell me it's of no value to you. Why would you even bother downloading AND watching it, if you don't care about it.

I find it utterly hypocritical to say 'Hey I wouldn't pay for it anyway!', then turns around to go find a torrent/rs/nl site, queue it to download and spend the time to watch it.

BS.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

And I have tried to make the split more even.

A boxed version is a material object. With material objects, theft is clearly defined. But with electronic representation, like software... By copying it, a software "pirate" doesn't take the original away from the legal owner.

If software is really liked, then the human will pay for it, sooner or later. At least, by word-of-mouth advertising.
If the human is forced to use the proprietary software because of the company's monopoly and bad practices, pirating becomes much more easier to justify.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A jocular comment:

You say:
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his work"
I reply:
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, a pretty common case:

1. a human gets a new computer; it has a new Microsoft Windows OS on it;

2. the human doesn't like the OS at all;

3. but the computer is very good, and there is practically no legal/easy way to downgrade to previous, more acceptable version of Windows;

4. the human "pirates" the previous version of Windows;

5. the installation CD with the newer version of Windows is tossed into a box and covered with dust;

6. and later, with about 20%-30% probability, the human starts to use Linux instead of Windows.

Now, there is pirating of software clearly involved, but the human has already paid for the newer version (which he doesn't use), and he "pirated" an older (and supposedly cheaper) version. Therefore, the human has caused no financial harm to the manufacturer.

I don't pay attention to the clause "student with limited financial resources": in the case described, the pirating is entirely justified even without it.

Of course, the above-described isn't the only reason of pirating.

Some people have to upgrade their operating system and/or office suite because Microsoft haven't considered backward compatibility (if A communicates regularly with B, B pays for Microsoft Word 2007 and starts sendings docx, A tries to read it on Windows 2000, he cannot do it - at least, special formatting, like equations, is lost - and A is forced to get Word 2007, and therefore Windows XP, too; and then "limited financial resources" along with Microsoft's absence of support for older software, might force him to pirate some software).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, what's the reason people still use (and pirate) Microsoft's Word, when there is OpenOffice.org?

For many people, the reason is Word's non-standard but comfortable "MathML" equation editor. If OO had anything similar, but with Standard MathML and could save it as standard XHTML, people would enthusiastically go for it. At least, some people.

Microsoft Word has crashed a lot (often damaging the document by the way).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's the reason people still use (and pirate) Microsoft's Windows, when there are many different flavors of Linux?

Mostly, habit. Also, some favorite programs: Word, Outlook, Internet Explorer, Media Player. When OpenOffice.org will be able to read flawlessly my old .doc and .docx documents, and save new documents as XHTML with MathML and SVG integrated, many switches to Linux might occur.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry if I sound like life-long advocate of piracy of Microsoft's products.
In reality, I don't like piracy at all.
But, don't blame poor consumers for being forced by a monopolist into getting a program, even when they get it by pirating.
If you want to blame somebody, blame the monopolist (who ties the operating system with the computer, the programs with the operating system, etc) and the people who try to take a pirated copy of software and sell it as a genuine one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

The theater analogy is wrong. I downloaded a copy of an MP3, I didn't sneak into a concert.

And, if I can't afford AutoCAD, and still download it and look around, exatly what has been lost? What amount of anguish have I caused? What exactly damage to others have I done to merit imprisonment or crippling fines?

If no measurable damage has been done, is it still wrong, or illegal?

So, where's the limit? Stop prople from looking at me because I have a custom haircut? No photos? Ban information we don't like? What is I inspired a book? Book burnings? What if I inspired history?

The copy was willingly shared. If someone sends me a funny pic, am I to require proof of permission before viewing it?

Where is the limit, I ask you. If I yell out in frustration, is it my yell? Are you barred from yelling out?

Did you know that silence is copyrighted? Yes, people have been sued over empty tracks, because someone already made a song that is "silence".

Did you know there is a patent application for a stick?

It's past ridiculous.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

MS was laughing all the way to the bank with the release of Vista. First it forced most computer manufacturers to stick Vista on their machines and hence forcing customers to pay for it whether they wanted it or not. Then when people cannot endure the Vista torture anymore they are forced to shell out more money for some form of XP.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

"Don't tell me it's of no value to you. Why would you even bother downloading AND watching it, if you don't care about it."
Just because you watch something doesnt mean you care for it witch is why i said if i like it il buy it ive downloaded plently of movies just recently watched (machete) would i buy it? No didnt like it. Am i glad i watched it without spending a dime yes . why? because to me it sucked . Ever buy a cd and only 2 songs are good? It doesnt feel good feels like a waste of 10 bucks .Making digital copies of something is not stealing taking the physical object from a store is . If the technology exsisted i would make a clone of my 60" tv and wouldnt spend a dime on another tv.Im sure this has been said but libraries,second hand stores,garage sells,block buster, music shops, any one who sells second hand is guilty of piracy they all paid for the copy of the original product but they do not submit further payment to the actors or studio . also our system is broken its ridiculous to think that you bought a movie but its not really yours you actually just bought liscence to view, it but god forbid you make a digital copy of what you bought that would be wrong.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

I got Vista on a new computer. Didn't want it. Called MS and got a downgrade license to XP. No piracy involved. So, sorry, but the "I pirated it because I didn't want the newer OS" is rubbish.

My rule of thumb with *all* software is, if I have a new system, and it gets installed / used within 2 weeks, I pay for it.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

You will learn that people put prices for different things in life; They produce or serve something; and they offer it for a price and it's up to you to engage them in a transaction to acquire said goods/services at the price that they want or not.

If you can breach their 'security' to work around and acquire the item/services, then that's one thing. It may even not be covered by the (slowly catching up) legalities, so you're not doing it illegally.

Failure to undersand the basic premise of "It's someone else's work that they want to charge a fee for" and the lack of self control/dignity to acknowledge that "I think that sh*t is unreasonably priced/licensed so I don't want anything to do with it anyway.", then I will have to say that you're justifying some type of misbehaviors.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Well... You were lucky and/or patient to find this way.
By the way, has the telephone call cost you anything?
How long have you waited to get XP running on the computer?

And, imagine there was another issue: you get Vista in a language you hardly know, and the seller doesn't have an English version of Windows. Is it possible to downgrade from Vista in Chinese (for instance) to XP in English?

There are restrictions: you can downgrade from "Vista Professional" to XP, but not from "Vista Home".

Googling found it:
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/lice...de_rights.aspx

> Only certain OEM versions of Windows Vista include downgrade rights.

> Windows Vista Business and Windows Vista Ultimate include downgrade rights to:
> Windows XP Professional, or
> Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, or
> Windows XP Professional x64 Edition

> Other OEM Windows Vista versions (for instance, Windows Vista Home Basic and Windows Vista Home Premium) do not include downgrade rights.

Could you describe exact steps for downgrade license, please? Maybe, a reader would dig the Vista CD out of thick layer of dust and get this XP license and use non-pirated Windows XP.

But, most likely, if the user hasn't already downgraded, he cannot. He was given "Windows Vista Home", for instance. What a lock!

Anyway, pirating in this case isn't harmful to Windows; it's more stressful to the user who has to fend off the Windows Genuine Advantage.

I repeat: in the case "I pirated it because I didn't want the newer OS" the user has already paid to Microsoft more than he should. You cannot say that the user hasn't paid for the software he uses.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Agreed, no sane company will pursue a license issue for a downgrade. I had this issue with several companies and their responses varied from "ok" to "not OK by EULA, but we won't say anything, go ahead".

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

After all of this time... we're still talking about an original poster that's contemplated buying multiple Nokia N900's but cannot support their own education? Priorities are really ****ed up if that's the case.

And to make matters worse... same person can afford university, can afford multiple gadgets, can afford a computer, can afford internet access... but can't afford or find alternate means to obtain software to support aforesaid life decisions to further their education and/or curiosity?

Again... priorities are really ****ed up if that is the case.

So let's use the age-old car analogy... that's like buying a great car, getting your license, attending driving school... and not knowing how you will pay for the gas and insurance...

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

To further education/curiosity, use Linux.

Internet access is probably given by the university.

Many students look to get 'student grants'/scholarships in order to cover the cost of university.

N900 probably doubles as the main computer.

I know somebody can consider it an overkill, but ideally, every program on a computer should be open-source. It's hard; there is some good free-ware and some necessary, due to habit, buyware.

The number one reason for still buying/pirating proprietary software:
user cannot find adequate/compatible open-source replacement.

OpenOffice.org cannot open .docx files properly;
open-source full-featured PDF editor can hardly be found (PDFedit?);
open-source formula editing/graph drawing/equation solving, especially cross-platform and MATLAB compatible, is needed (GNU Octave seems to be the best);
etc.

I wouldn't blame a student for not paying for some program; I would blame the university for requiring the program and not giving it to the student at the same time.

It's like getting an Aptera vehicle: no gas, just electricity, classified as motorcycle, probably no insurance required, the vehicle is built with safety in mind.

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Keep in mind: this post contains subjective opinion and might contain incorrect assumptions.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

I'm here agreeing with most others - While in the past it may have been different, these days I see almost no need to pirate software, especially as a student. However, my definition of pirate isn't always the same as the company's definition.

Now, expanding on my first point, as a student, what do you need?
You generally need an office suite - OO generally does the trick. Sure, it may not support .docx properly, but in two + years of college, I've never had someone give me a .docx file. Generally - if it wasn't given to me hard-copy - it was a .doc file, and generally a "compatibility mode" one at that, and OO reads and writes them well enough that I never had trouble.
Now, while I like the Linux OS, and would love to get everyone running a Linux-based system, if you need certain specialized programs, Wine just won't cut it.
I'm talking mainly about recent Autodesk products.
If you end up needing windows though - these days - you can get a full W7 home(I think) license for $10-20 through your school! That's so cheap, its not worth the hassle of pirating it, and at that price, you really shouldn't.
Autodesk products are another common requirement, but as a college student, you can get trials/full versions of everything they offer, for free! All you need is a .edu email address, which most if not all colleges will provide for free.
Photoshop's another big issue - I'm not sure if you can get a free version of that, but, well... You can always use GIMP. And if you need some feature you can't use GIMP for, you can always use the school-provided computer lab.

There are a number of other programs that fit these criteria, but I'm not going to go into them all.

On to my second point: The "grey area".
Lets take this example: You own a fully-licenced copy of Windows XP. You go to reinstall, and it goes "Oh, you can't do that. You've activated it one too many times". Now, if you go and get a licence-crack, I see absolutely no problem with this. Microsoft may, but I don't.
Same thing with any software - If you have a licence, but need a "crack" of some sort to get it working, by all means, go ahead.
I also see no problem in downloading a replacement disk image to replace a scratched or broken piece of install media - You bought the license in the first place.

On the other hand, pirating a game(and other software in the same vein) is right out... Unless its something that's not being currently sold, and used copies aren't available(abandonware, for instance). I fully agree with providing the creator his fee, but if something's not being sold, he won't get his fee anyway.

So, while my views may not exactly match up with what IP laws are - especially in certain countries - those are my views, and I stand by them.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

Odd, I've always found OO to be lacking, heavy on resources for no reason, and poor in compatibility. Sure it "reads" the file, but it always kills formatting in all but its most basic forms. All embedded graphics are realigned, and tables have missing or different features if anythig advanced is used and while content matters when you present a poem, formatting is paramount when presenting a high level paper, such as diploma or doctorate paper.

I had to buy a printer to make it look right, because the printing services I wanted had only OO. I ended up sending them a PNG for the cover and laser print myself.

Therer's a reason they keep charging hundreds while a free alternative exists. As a Linux user, this may sound strange to you, but "works" is not enough.

I had one of the two 10s, or A's or whatever your system is when I presented my license paper (exam is county wide and covers 2 generations) and I guarantee that changing even the shade of a heading will ruin the carefully balanced and professional look of a paper.

So no, just because you never found OO to have any issues doesn't mean it's sufficient, even if you are a student.

This isn't personal, it's just that I've heard this all too often, usually in a superior voice. Why pay for Photoshop, GIMP is free. GIMP Is Not Photoshop. Thay should call it GINP.

Hmm. Reading back the post, I seem quite upset, sorry for the tone. It's still a valid point, though.

Re: Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software?
 

If you want to be sure that the document preserves colors, shapes, alignments - use either .pdf or .html. Period.

With .doc, only the program-creator knows what it meant - and even this program can damage the document and destroy it.

With .html, you can edit the document in Notepad, vi, nano, emacs, anything, and you see clearly what is going on.

With .pdf, nobody can edit it (except, maybe, Adobe Acrobat or PDFedit) - it's make once and never edit, best format for printing.

I have not seen Photoshop for years. Not even a glimpse of it. I don't know a single human who has Photoshop installed. At the same time, most people around use Windows, and GIMP for advanced image editing. I know it's next to impossible to separate object from background in GIMP - but it doesn't have artificial intelligence.

GINP is a good suggestion. See:
GINP -> GIMP Is Not Photoshop.
GIMP -> GNU Image Manipulation Program.
GNU -> GNU Not Unix.

Yes, it is a valid point, that Windows is the prevalent operating system, despite all its shortcomings. Windows users want everything to be done and polished; Linux users need to set up everything by hand, and simply using Linux is an incentive for the user to become a developer. Linux user isn't expected to get programs running right after installing them.

GIMP and OpenOffice.org both show such large number of buttons and functions, that it's difficult to find the needed one.

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This post is subjective.