Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

The entire team, not just Lorn? That's awesome! I know that team, Brisbane was my home town :)

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

You know, making yet another smartphone OS meant for the general public is a dead end. The time for new OS'es is over.

If the Jolla team had a tiny bit of entrepreneurial fibre in their bodies, they would go for smartTVs. That's were things are happening, thats where you can still make a difference before Google/Apple/MS take it all, that's where Linux and Qt fits right in. Start with a tiny box with internet/wifi and HDMI, a good UI and the world is yours (at least for some time). But no, they will continue with the nonsense that got them sacked in the first place. The least they could do is make a real hacker device, a device for the enthusiast, there's not many of those around.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Plenty of those already exist (running Android of course): Android TV Boxes


Only a few years ago the market was dominated by Symbian, RIM and Windows Mobile. Then Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola, etc... all abandoned Symbian for Android. Look how that changed the market.

Android is by no means perfect and Google has purchased Motorola which has caused friction. Some of the manufacturers who abandoned Symbian because they thought NOKIA had too much control over it could feel the same about Motorola and Android now.

In fact some of them are already rumoured to be looking at alternatives. Samsung have already tested the temperature with Bada and now they're working on Tizen. Some of the up and coming Chinese manufacturers like ZTE are also planning devices using Tizen and Firefox OS.

Who knows, maybe even WPx could develop a market share that's something more significant than a margin of error.

Then of course we have BB10 on the horizon.

The market is not as settled as you like to suggest.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

You actually made some sense now. But, IMO smart TV is much easier to get into atm. A smaller market, but a simpler market.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

But Jolla is doing that [compete in the "smart" TV market] too, they just won't make their own TV initially.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Jolla's odds are close to my odds of winning 250000000 on lottery. They got no chance.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

So you mean that now you won't win the Nokia stock lottery that you (as you stated) heavily invested in?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Still no Jolla phone in sight but Jolla music ringtone, already available for download :D

MP3, OGG of FLAC

http://jolla.com/ringtone/

Edit: oops! I did not see the other thread on the same subject.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Sami Pienimäki (co-founder) interviewed:

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/12/...ve-to-android/

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Any solid jolla news lately? Or still nothing?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Yes, buguntu is trying to copy their UI, but much slower and doesn't look like it will feel comfortable.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

I think both uis looks pretty sweet?

Copy? You mean swipe from any side of the screen? I fail to see it. Sorry.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

I am with the following comment on Jolla:

Skeptical wrote :

These guys have an uphill battle. Other than the UI, they have said little as to what their differentiators will be, and whether they will be worth the high end cost.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

The members of TMO, of all people, know the efficiency of MeeGo. We know how it will scale with better hardware and how it screams on lower end hardware.

MeeGo, which Jolla has built their new UI on top of, is a very capable little beast that the *nix lovers and developers can latch onto easily. It's a rather standard affair to develop for and that means the price admission to develop for it is much lower and porting to it has many ways - C++, Qt, Python, etc. - to port to it.

Skeptical is okay. I'm personally very skeptical about Jolla. But at the same time, I'm also very happy they're there in a sector that was quickly dwindling to iOS and Android.

Jolla, BB10, Firefox OS... dude, those are the OS's that might never make a huge dent into the current iOS and Android steamroller, but they are there.

I hope they do well. And it's gonna take communities like this, full of developers that just don't think within the box, to make some inroads into the aforementioned competition.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Trying to copy more than copying... I meant things like some form of swiping, no buttons and all that. I was half joking, of course, since I do like the fact that there is yet another option.

Personally, I didn't like the usability (e.g., I don't see myself using it with one hand alone), and certainly didn't like its performance.
Ah well, let's see what happens ;)

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

They have no chance. Dreamers that can't deliver. What are they tweeting lately?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

I don't,know what efficiency you are talking about. My N9s were laggy and stuttering like a Parkinson disease inflicted old man. And this was a 1gb of RAM. Jolla can't deliver. That is why they got fired. Can the losers stage comeback, sure. I wish them all the luck and capable personnel they need.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Dunno man. I used N9QTweak and my N9 doesn't stutter.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

But I thought OGG was dangerously proprietary! ...Or doesn't anybody remember that? :) I hope Jolla doesn't make these same stupid mistakes.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

I'll have to agree with gerbick here. I do not even use N9QTweak, and I do not overclock my device and still it behaves just like it should. My device never "stutters" or "lags" or whatever...

BTW, My niece bought an iPhone 5 for herself as christmas present and I helped her to set it up so you cannot even claim I do not have experience on Apple devices to compare with N9. In my experience the UI of both devices reacts pretty much with the same fluidity.

I do belive that the problem is rather psychological than physical here ;)

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Well the paper you are quoting does have a slipup where it mentions Ogg as proprietary, as what should have been said (and what is actually meant when reading and UNDERSTANDING the document) is that the Theora video codec that is used with Ogg container is proprietary. In that paper the Nokia representative recommended use of H.264 as standard open video codec.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

I have a couple of problems with your bizarre reply. Quoting directly from the position paper:

#1: "Anything beyond that, including a W3C-lead standardization of a 'free' codec, or the active endorsement of proprietary technology such as Ogg, …, by W3C, is, in our opinion, not helpful for the co-existence of the two ecosystems (web and video), and therefore not our choice."

Not specifically Theora, not even specifically Vorbis.. they're talking about Ogg which BOTH of them use as a container. They used an example of Theora for video and suggested H.264 as a substitute.. and even went so far as to go on and even suggest MP3 instead of OGG's audio (that would imply the Vorbis codec too, then).

#2: "Considering our requirements, we believe the widespread use of technically competitive, but not necessarily “free” open standards, such as H.264 for video and AAC for audio, would serve the community best."

So Nokia suggests replacing what is ACTUALLY a free and unencumbered container and codecs (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg which also includes references at the footnotes) with a knowingly patent-encumbered non-free set of containers and codecs (they even said as much, see the quote above)? Was this written on backwards day, or what?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

They just misuse the term "open" standard. In the context of the Web, open standard means not just documented, but royalty free. Any others shouldn't be called open. Mostly Apple and MS repeat this tune about fake "open" these days.

Luckily, for example Opus codec was approved as web standard. So when it'll be used in WebRTC, Apple and MS will look like idiots in not supporting it.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Android is already so open (both Android kernel and Dalvik VM), opennes is no criteria anymore. From the open source code, for example CyanogenMod has been created which is totally independent from Google. One can choose to use some other app store, web search engine, social media and have nothing to do with Google if one doesn't want to.

Only thing which still somewhat bugs me, is that Android is not following many Linux standards (but neither is Ubuntu btw) and is not very compatible with mainline Linux. But hopefully to this there will be improvement. Google also sees it would benefit it if improvements in the mainline Linux kernel would be easily usable to Android kernel. Google has provided many battery saving features to upstream Linux kernel already and the forks are getting more close to eachothers

Linus Torwalds said one year ago:
Some progress has been made already, so I am hopeful.
Android has so many things right, it may be easier to transfer it to fully Linux compliant mobile system, that build working mobile "ecosystems" from these other candidates (Tizen, Sailfish, ubuntu)

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Well, what was the first sentence in my posting?
I think I said "Well the paper you are quoting does have a slipup where it mentions Ogg as proprietary"

Do you agree with that sentence?
And further on, if Theora is free in all meanings of the word, free as FOSS, can you please enlighten me on that subject?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Dumbramos is an Android troll. Not sure why he is here, when he doesnt own a single Nokia device. He should be banned immediately :)

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Theora, Dirac and VP8 are free (as in FOSS) and open video codecs. New one that's work in progress is called Daala (https://wiki.xiph.org/Daala)

Vorbis is an open (FOSS) audio codec. As well as Opus. There are other open ones, like Flac for lossless audio for example.

Ogg is a container format (open and FOSS as well).

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Free, as in FOSS, doesn't always equate to non-proprietary.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Can you elaborate or give some examples? I'm not sure what it means being FOSS while being proprietary.

There are examples of OSS (open source software) implementations of proprietary technologies. Like x264 for H.264 codec. But it's not FOSS. I.e. while being open source, it's not free, since it's still patents encumbered.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

In this case, the submarine patents surround Ogg Theora is my biggest issue what I was implying more than anything else. The W3C is looking for an (HTML5) audio/video that's open, universally available and doesn't seem to be laden with patents that will stop integration into certain products.

Ogg Theora cannot say that. But to answer your question, Ogg Theora is based on a proprietary VP3 codec. That means that despite being open, it's a fork of what people would know/use and thus different and comes with certain limitations and/or workarounds that exist for a multitude of reasons. But it still makes it proprietary. That's what I meant.

Hope this answers your inquiry. And I state it all as opinion, not fact.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Submarine patents are irrelevant. I.e. potentially anything can be patented by some unknown patents, and therefore by this definition everything is proprietary altogether? It's not how the definition goes however. If there are no known patents that cover some open source technology, it's free and non proprietary, until proven otherwise.

VP3 was originally encumbered indeed, as well as VP8 by the way. However it's long since it was opened by On2 themselves and became royalty free:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VP3

So Theora based on VP3 is by all means a FOSS and non proprietary codec, as well as VP8 which was opened by Google after they bought On2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VP8

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Submarine patents slow down (edit: I can't say re-t-ard!? It means to slow down) the adoption of a "standard". It's very relevant and affected Ogg Theora directly.

But that doesn't mean non-proprietary. You've overlooked that.

Since you linked to Wikipedia, you overlooked the Ogg Theora entry that states otherwise.

Bolded by me, not Wikipedia, btw. It's open, but still proprietary. Thus my statement still stands.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

It was proprietary. But it's not anymore. Article about Ogg is confusing in its wording.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VP3#Move_to_free_software
I call it non proprietary.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Interesting. And seems like I stand corrected.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Geez... everybody beat me to it already. :P Anyway, it's been unencumbered for quite some time now. :)

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

So I as proven wrong here,thank you :)

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

jolla announced on facebook a few minutes ago:

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Hmm if it's any bigger than the N9 then I'm out. I don't understand the obsession with ever larger screens - 5" 1080p seems to be all the rage at CES. A phone that can't fit in my hand starts to become more annoying and less useful. But then I don't like any tablet over 9" and any laptop over 12" so perhaps I'm not in line with standard opinion.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

I would surely prefer it to be not bigger than N9, since I carry it in my pocket. Extra wide screens make it uncomfortable up to impossible.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

A big phone is great for Web content, all forms of content. N9 sized phone is so slow simply becouse you can't hit an ran what you want all the time. I hope for a big screen. Did they say premium? No premium phones comes with less than 4 inch 2013. Sorry to tell you right now.

I hope for atleast five possible even 6 inch. 5,5 inch phone can easy be handle with one hand so 6 inch could be tricky, but if they adding a keyboard. Problem solved.