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-   SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)
-   -   Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87764)

Lumiaman 2013-07-16 02:45
Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 
The interest thing is that the only interest is in Finland and good old USA

marbleuser 2013-07-16 23:58
Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 
in case anyone's still interested, i found this rationale for wayland on jolla on WIKIPEDIA.

Carsten Munk, Jolla's Chief Research Engineer and one of key persons in Mer project, has made it possible to run Wayland (display server protocol) atop Android GPU drivers. It's being done with glibc rather than Android's Bionic libc derivative. The solution is to enable the use of Wayland on top of Android hardware, particularly with its GPU drivers. However, as part of it, for the operating system to not depend upon Google's Bionic libc library. In April 2013 the code is at a stage of being able to handle a QML compositor on top of Wayland while rendering to Qualcomm's GPU Android drivers. The motive for engaging this work is that most device manufacturers are only willing to work with Google's Android and not supply drivers for X11 or Wayland or other platforms.

soryuuha 2013-07-17 00:11
Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleuser (Post 1359496)
The motive for engaging this work is that most device manufacturers are only willing to work with Google's Android and not supply drivers for X11 or Wayland or other platforms.[/B]
this sucks if this is true

shmerl 2013-07-17 02:14
Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 
I hope in their hardware at least Jolla won't use bionic with libhybris translation for glibc, but will use native glibc drivers for Wayland. Otherwise it'll be really sad. All this Android only GPUs are really getting annoying.

That said, having libhybris can be helpful to port Sailfish to Android only hardware.

jalyst 2013-07-17 02:36
Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleuser (Post 1359496)
in case anyone's still interested, i found this rationale for wayland on jolla on WIKIPEDIA.

Carsten Munk, Jolla's Chief Research Engineer and one of key persons in Mer project, has made it possible to run Wayland (display server protocol) atop Android GPU drivers. It's being done with glibc rather than Android's Bionic libc derivative. The solution is to enable the use of Wayland on top of Android hardware, particularly with its GPU drivers. However, as part of it, for the operating system to not depend upon Google's Bionic libc library. In April 2013 the code is at a stage of being able to handle a QML compositor on top of Wayland while rendering to Qualcomm's GPU Android drivers. The motive for engaging this work is that most device manufacturers are only willing to work with Google's Android and not supply drivers for X11 or Wayland or other platforms.
Yes, this is well-known for some time now, it's not so much a rationale for Wayland as it is a rationale for libhybris.

By the way, general discussion thread here:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90142&page=77
"Other Half" ideas thread here:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90180&page=16
Applications you'd like to see on Sailfish here:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90245&page=29
Pre-order shipments (i.e. t-shirt etc) here:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90567&page=21

qwazix 2013-07-17 04:55
Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleuser (Post 1359266)
I don't know if you read all of that, as it clearly states they're keeping X11 for backward compatibility. They're not stupid. Just keep in mind the gnome fiasco (everybody including Linus himself just switched to XFCE/LXDE), linux people tend to vote with their feet. but you're welcome to whistle past the graveyard.

it's just an android capable phone for china consumers who want something different. incapable of running most existing gtk/qt/x11 apps except in some vnc type environment a la android.

i (honestly) wish them well, but i've no intention of being an early adopter on this one. i'll let people like you buy it first and do the lobbying/development and then see what it looks like in a year compared to whatever other phones are out then. you seem keen, so go for it!
This is all unfounded. When did linux had backward compatibility? It's not windows. Try installing a deb from the 770 on the N9 and see if it installs.

GTK+ supports wayland. Qt supports wayland. Probably other toolkits too. But most of the desktop linux apps use those two toolkits. I was also pretty disappointed when I first heard of the move to wayland (way before jolla) because I didn't know many things. But I read a bit about it, and saw this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=RIctzAQOe44 and I now think the change is pretty exciting.

One thing I am sure about is that wayland has nothing to do with android It's where the linux desktop goes. Jolla are simply early birds..

anzx 2013-07-17 08:23
Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 
What Jolla should do, is to take MeeGo Harmattan instead of Sailfish, and optimize it for dual core processor and start adding more features to the OS, just upgrading it, and leave the design like it is... in 2 years this would be an IOS killer, then I would be the first who would buy jolla phone, now I will wait and use my N9 untill it dies.

jalyst 2013-07-17 08:46
Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anzx (Post 1359530)
What Jolla should do, is to take MeeGo Harmattan instead of Sailfish, and optimize it for dual core processor and start adding more features to the OS, just upgrading it, and leave the design like it is... in 2 years this would be an IOS killer, then I would be the first who would buy jolla phone, now I will wait and use my N9 untill it dies.
That is not a option, much of Harmattan is Nokia's proprietary sw, even if they were able to convince Nokia to license it*, Harmattan's far more closed than MeeGo ever was.
That makes it virtually impossible to make lots of sweeping changes & fixes (which Harmattan sorely needs), nah, overall that would be a silly idea/approach.
Again, general chit-chat thread here, please leave this thread for it's intended purpose...
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90142&page=77

Thanks
*which would never happen anyway

shmerl 2013-07-17 16:10
Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 
jalyst: You mentioned, that you saw some comments from Jolla that they aren't going to open source some core applications from Sailfish. It's a major concern I think, since before their general feeling was to make the whole thing open (except 3rd party bits like Android emulator and etc.). Did you find those references? It's probably worth it to discuss with Jolla devs. I really won't like it, if their e-mail client won't be open source for example.

jalyst 2013-07-17 16:16
Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 
TBH, I CBF'd trying to find it, maybe try asking them directly via Twitter/elsewhere?
I'd be delighted if I was wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not, at least based on what they've said quite a few times before.


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