Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Good luck tethering your iPod touch with anything, since the BlueTooth is crippled.

There is a project which requires jailbreak to unlock it, is in beta stage (Roqy-GPS). Remember that is only the GPS, using SPP. Not BlueTooth PAN or BlueTooth DUN which is supposed to be released 'later'.

So without ugly hacks and jailbreak you'd have to resort to ad-hoc WiFi which drains the battery, or use something like MIFI + iPod touch.

There are many complaints about iPhoneOS 3.1 + iPhone 3GS, including stability issues.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

robot wars

PushN900 project have a proposal to build a robot using an n900 as a brain

i think it would be REALLY cool to have a war between Nokia Push robots and iphones and androids!

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

@allnameswereout: ohhhh right. I've been using my iphone to tether my netbook and disn't think how restrictive it would've been the other way around. Yeah, i've stayed away from os3.1 so far. Unclear improvements, unjailbreakable yet. 100% problem for users like myself.

@lcuk: lol that would be awesome. With all the different sensors on board these devices, it'd be very interesting indeed.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Finally browsed thru the thread.

About multitasking, if you by default have disabled multitasking to save battery, I don't think that is such a good thing. I mean its like limiting Bugatti Veyron's top speed to 100mph so that it wouldn't suck out all the gas so fast. And then saying yeah it can go 253mph but by default it won't. N900 has the multitasking on by default. Iphone's argument about multitasking is moot, it was not designed for multitasking since they didn't give it a battery for it.

And people talk about how jailbreaking makes iphone better? Pimp My Ride might make a car better. I want better when I carry my stuff out of the store. In Finland we have slightly derogatory saying that furry dice makes your car accelerate faster. If you need to do something to your device after you bought it, can you honestly claim that the design is as good as it should/could be?

Please stop argumenting for iphone's benefit with jailbreaking, since it is then no longer a stock device is it? When comparing these two, if you actually, really have to, compare the devices in the state the maker intended them to be used. Please? Same goes for the multitasking-war.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

The original iPhone was released in 2007 with ARM11 cpu, and after loading the OS the remaining free ram was around 50MB. RAM wasn't the only limited resource that has to be dealt with, some of the others are: CPU, Screen estate, bandwidth.

What needs to be remembered here is that a large majority of 'multitasking' use by a user is simply 'state saving' an app while you jump to another app, and going back and forth while doing it. Especially on a small device where it's not practical to have both apps open AND VIEWABLE at the same time. This harkens back to the PalmOS which does this beautifully with the very limited technical resources at the time.

As for jailbreaking.. well, it depends on how you view the comparison. If you're just looking at it from conceptual view (as with most fanboys or foss purists), then sure, jailbroken iphones should be DISQUALIFIED from the comparison, because they somehow gotten themselves an unfair advantage (??).

But being a gadget freak, I'm going to look for all unfair advantages in every gadget that I'm getting. Including jailbreaking the iphone when I use it (no big deal). And including using unofficial repos in my upcoming N900 if it gets me nice apps ;)

(Also used some cooked ROMs on my G1, but I'm not too happy with that device).

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Yeah, that sounds fair too, comparing devices on the level that they can reach. It is altho different comparison than just comparing published specs. Then again also when comparing how good one or the other device can be when tinkered on, it gets down to personal likings in my opinion.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

@soulfarmer: yeah, I think it's more relevant for a site like this because there are more 'power users' here than 'normal users', and it's useful for:

a). Someone who is considering what device to get
b). Maemo developers to know what their competitors can realistically do.

Of course you need to put the disclaimers and explain which are default and which are 'optional' (requires jailbreak, custom ROM, unsupported repos or whatever) so people know what to expect.

save the 'stock comparison' for PC World magazine n other sites ;)

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Very true. I guess I forgot where I was :)

I think one big reason N900 is making so much noise is that people from NIT usage and people not from there collide somewhat with their opinions. ( landscape vs portrait war for example)

But I am happy the way things are, I am getting N900, period.

EDIT: I forgot to mention also that comparing operators and therefore data-plans in just in the US doesn't give full view on these devices. I think that is comparing operators not devices per se. Here in Finland we get full use of both devices.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Yup, when I was comparing devices when I first got my n800 (n800 vs first generation iPhone Edge [2G now] I think) I was interested in its full potential (including stuff that would require a little elbow grease to get it working). But I would always appreciate the info so I would know how much work was required and how risky it was.

e.g. cloning your OS and booting it off the SD card is not something normal users do like jailbreaking the iPhone [though it's easier with the tools provided now]

I'm still considering the iPhone 3GS (or whatever Apple releases next year) vs. n900 but it increasingly is in favor to the n900 (partially because of Apple's insane external water detection devices and also because with each firmware upgrade you gotta fight Apple with jailbreaking). The other being what the n900 offers hardware wise.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

2 questions...
what is the RAM and ROM of the iphone 3gs?
I know the resolution of the Nokia is higher but what else makes the screen better does it show more colors than the iphone 3gs?

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

@shaun132:
afaik there's no ROM on the 3GS.
256MB RAM and 32GB or 16GB storage, depending on model..
I think both screens can reproduce 16m colors.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Honestly, the only advantage I can find on the Iphone is the superior GPU, everything else is inferior, really. Even the Maemo apps are more appealing than Iphone's counterpart (at least for me).


However, one thing should be mentioned, and that's the lack of the GPU detail discussions overall in this forum, which is probably due the pride to not be inferior to the Iphone.


Just for future reference, here are the GPU specs.

N900: PowerVR SGX 530 (14 MPolys/s)
Iphone 3GS: PowerVR SGX 535 (28 MPolys/s)

For reference, the Iphone 3G had about "only" 1 MPolys/s, while the PSP still is the portable king, with about 30 MPolys/s. (Keep in mind that the GPU isn't everything that matters, even for games.)


Things that need to be considered here are mainly Iphone's lack of high resolution and virtual memory, which obviously limit the performance of the games and the UI, perhaps even more than the GPU advantage.

And the most important thing is maybe that the GPU advantage might never be used, becuase nearly all Iphone games are made to work on the first Iphones as well. This can't be said about the development of games for the N900.


Just for clarification, my conclusion was obviously that the N900 is a superior gaming platform, despite of the fact that is has an inferior GPU.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

For it to be superior, it would need more than speculation imho.

Stating one is superior by just sheer numbers is honestly tiresome and usually inaccurate. For instance, the PS3 has much more power than the Wii. Yet the Wii has sold more games and systems in Japan. Until very recently, the PSP was second fiddle to the Nintendo DS/DSi in Sony and Nintendo's home country of Japan.

But ultimately, the Nintendo handheld platform still has more sales than the PSP - which has a greater GPU et al.

Simply put... saying that one has more horsepower means ultimately nothing when you don't have any games present. At the moment, while I love my retro gaming like no other - I keep a Dreamcast around, I still have an NEO-GEO console as well among others - and I enjoy emulation; that does not mean it's better for games.

Not in the same wholesale manner you just painted it. With that said; let's just say I have high hopes for the N900. But at the moment, the fact that I'm actually playing Unity3D based games on the iPhone and I don't see that immediately happening on the N900 is my personal concern. Well that and gaming on the N810 was for all intents and purposes rather limited despite it being a great platform for games as well.

It's all about the games. A number about what it can do is invariably theoretical and not real-world applicable in the least.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I read this long thread while contemplating what to get to replace my crappy N96. I got this phone after my trusted N95 broke down and I had to get a replacement. Boy have I been dissapointed.

Anyway, I was a very happy N800 user until that failed too and I am now a (mostly) a happy iTouch user (using JoikuSpot on N96 to create a wifi hotspot). Since I am unhappy with the poor performance of the N96, I have been wondering weather i should trade up. And I really have only two choices: iPhone or N900. Both have their pros and cons.

You have to remember that Nokia has been making smartphones for a long time (the communicator line) and Nokia is very experienced with corporate integration. At the same time the really positive experience with Apple's music & apps store and the easy usability vs. the really, I mean REALLY crappy applications software that Nokia has been able to produce for desktop computers so far - it leaves a lot to desire. Not to mention the user (un)friendliness of the early Maemos (N800).
So I am really pondering between power (Nokia) or user friendliness (Apple). I just wish that Nokia could get their act together and come at least a little closer to Apple in user friendliness, because I do think that their offering is otherwise very attractive.
This is a non-geeks note on a geek forum.

PS: On-line maps may be ok in the US, but in Europe, where travelling most of time includes crossing borders and expensive roaming charges, the ability to load maps on board saves also a lot of money. Just my 5 cents worth ...

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Yes they do,

If you "only" want to use a phone go for the iPhone, if you want to own your phone, go for the N900.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

iphone great

n900 great

i recommend phones all the time- and to most of the peops i know an iphone is the way forward.

if i had to pick one for myself ni900 all the way- but i do have both.. and use both..

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

At this point, the iPhone is a much more "complete" device.

The N900 on the other hand has much greater potential than the iPhone.

It is a question of whether you are willing to wait and for how long.

In my opinion, if the community grows and Nokia gives the support that is needed, the N900 will be better than iPhone in about 6 Months.

It still has some features now that beat the iPhone hands down (browser, keyboard, multitasking etc)

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

^^rightly said mate the iphone offers more usability features for a consumer at this point of time but the n900 has the necessary hardware to take it places wer i guess no present phone stands a chance.but alas patience is the virtue all prospective n900 users should have because the wait is certainly gonna b worth it..or atleast i hope..Merry christmas y'all

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Yeap!

And by being open, the N900 can catch up really fast IMHO!

Merry christmas from me too! :)

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

catergories winner
battery split -- iphone unmovable/n900 battery issues
speed/interface split
stability iphone
internet n900
ease of use iphone
adaptabilty iphone- app store beats potential atm
camera n900
keyboard split-- iphone's touch is great/nokia hw keypad
gps split
email split
phone/txt iphone
skype/im n900
games iphone
screen split---iphone multi/nokia resolotion
customization n900
power split
graphics iphone
storage n900
potential n900

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

One thing I really like about iPhone is the ability to change the SIM without a reboot.
Its so annoying that Nokia always puts the SIM under the battery.

But mostly I just miss a decent mapping app (google maps), and calendar/contacts sync that works.

The iPhone even has a much better command-line environment, including zsh.
(No point comparing n900 to an un-jailbroken iPhone, is there?)

But all is forgiven when I use the web browser.

I see this is your first Maemo device :-)

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

so myk what calender/contacts software so you use on your pc..

i use outlook and works perfectly on both machines

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I wish people would stop saying that the n900's browser can just go to a flash site like youtube and be able to play videos in the browser like you would be able to on a desktop pc.

It cant. Its all jerky and skips while playing, which, unless you have an incredably ancient desktop pc, is not at all what you'd expect from a "desktop browser".

So please stop perpetuating this myth, as it will only lead to unsatisfied customers.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I don't know if it is a myth. I know that I can go to a site and watch on line tv streaming without problems. Youtube may be jerky, but it must be a software issue since I can see other flash videos/streams ok.

edit: the problem seems to be with embeded videos. Watching videos in full screen seems to work much better.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I have both phones as well, and carry both, and while I agree with just about everything the OP posted, I still find myself reaching for my iPhone more often. For example, the camera is too often too slow in snapping a pic, and I have a devil of a time getting it to show in the picture gallery. I often have to go into file manager to find it. Sometimes when a call comes in, it's stuck in sleep mode and takes so long to become responsive that I sometimes miss the call. If I'm in a place I am not familiar with and want to find a restaurant or a Kinkos or whatever, the iPhone will find my location quickly and light up what I'm searching for.

Then there's the email app.... Arrgh, iPhone blows it away.

So yeah, technically the N900 is miles ahead and I'm thoroughly enjoying having root access to it and doing neat things, but for the average person for everyday use, the iPhone just works. i.e., my wife has an iPhone and I'd never dream of telling her she should get an N900 instead.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

have you got a broken n900? Or you are just grumpy lol...


I can go to youtube and watch it without jerky'ness. All fine :)

ok iplayer and some other sites don't work that well.. But youtube is fine :)

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I haven't experienced this yet, just so I know what to expect, is it:
- one 1 or 2 rings only come through and the caller gives up
or
- that the phone app takes several seconds to launch to show the answer button

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

iphone does not support Tmobile GSM band.......N900 does

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

My problem with N900 is lack of search function, l can not get my corporate email (which I get easily on iphone, nokia e71 and e51), and iphone has a FANTASTIC search function. N900 has many loose ends to tie before it can be compared to iphone

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Well .. there is that... or it could be said:

the iPhone has a completely different business model and totally different mindset to adopt before it can compare to the N900.....

Which do you think will happen first ;)?

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Hmm...

*goes to Youtube.com on my N900*
*chooses a video from subscription*
*plays video and then pauses it to let it load*
*plays video*

Seems fine to me.

Now not all flash sites work (e.g. Hulu is slow as hell) but hopefully the Flash 10 upgrade will fix that by offloading the brute work to the GPU instead of having the CPU taking care of it.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

T-Mobile is still #4 in the US, if that. One oddball band (1700 and they do also support 2100 btw), and a serious lack of 3G coverage near my area means that T-Mobile still has work to do.

AT&T supports 850 and 1900, btw. Mixing 3G and GSM, term-wise, would be disastrous.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Eh, neither supports the CDMA networks so the original statement is still wrong ("iPhone supports the all the major US networks while the N900 doesn't"). Point still in favour of the iPhone but not all that much.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Or a mac or decently specced PC running linux.

Flash performance is *Abysmal* on anything but windows.

This is the problem with proprietary solutions, be glad Adobe decided to bless our platform at all with support for their bloated POS.

Otherwise we'd be SOL

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

iphone is a toy.....N 900 is a machine!

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

^ what he said

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

What?? I have no flash issues with my Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic and Firefox.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

The latter. I run top shortly after and it shows the 5 minute load average over 5, so I'm probably running too many programs -- but that's the big advantage of the N900, isn't it?

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I have to agree. I've got both the N900 and an iPhone 3GS. While I really want to love the N900 I find I'm using the iPhone more regularly. The N900 has massive potential with the OS and the hardware but the iPhone at the mo really is the more complete package to use on a day-to-day basis.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I had the 770, two 800's, and two 810's, but currently I use the iPhone. I just had a friend over for Christmas who owns the N900. There is no denying the platform is the most powerful platform available on a mobile device. There is also no denying that maemo has come a long way since it's introduction in 2005. However, I still feel that a few key pieces are missing to make me want to switch to using the N900 over the iPhone. For one, the screen response is terrible. I know it is resistive versus capacitive on devices like the iPhone and the Droid, but do I really have to press so hard to get a list to scroll smoothly on the device? Perhaps if I haven't been an iPhone user for so long I wouldn't notice so much, but that alone makes the device unusable to me in a daily situation, I would get frustrated every time I used the touchscreen.
I am also so over using a stylus on a device at all. I know it's more accurate, but guess what, I'd rather have software which can figure out what I mean by a fat finger press.
While most of the UI of the N900 is pretty impressive, there are still long gaps with nothing displayed on the screen when an application loads, or no response when a button is pressed on the touchscreen. I'm sorry, but for my tastes I'd rather have a device which provides a more seamless experience but requires me to come up with workarounds.
For example, in order to connect to the Linux server I run at home from my iPhone I use an app called iSSH which is pretty similar to putty on windows. However, I have set up key pairs and screenrc so that i press the hostname in the app, the app connects me, and then screen reattaches so I'm left right where I left off, but I don't drain the battery by walking around having an active ssh connection back to my home machine while I'm out and about.
The media application on the N900 has come a really long way though. I run a uPnP server at home on the same Linux machine and there is no way for my iPhone to connect and read the directories with TV shows and Movies available. The N900 on the other hand detects it automatically and has no trouble playing 90% of the content directly through the File Manager app.
At the end of the day though, the N900 just isn't for me. I already have a laptop at home, and I have the iPhone which takes care of all media/connectivity needs that I have. The only thing that is really lacking for my personal use is small icons identifying when there are unread emails waiting, but for now I can live with that limitation.
UPDATE: I forgot to add that although the development for maemo devices is open to anyone with a repo, the number and quality of apps is staggeringly low. It is definitely a niche device, which is really unfortunate because the N900 is hands down the best hardware out there currently, but I feel like it's achille's heel is always going to be the limited application availability.