Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

When has Intel ever executed on software successfully?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

May as well sell your N900 now if you think thats the case. Lets face it the n900 has only just become available in most places on contract. It would be a PR disaster for Nokia to dump a 'Flagship' phone after a few months, they normally bang out updates etc for 18 months on average before slowing support patches etc.

I cant see that happening personally but you never know.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

For the TMO folk too.. Just analyzing the news..

"Many devices" - Tablets, cars, phones, televisions:
* Different screen sizes require different UI designs, and often more.
* On small mobile devices energy consumption is more acute problem than on tablet, tv or car. Software originating from other device family might suck phone battery dry..
* The devices won't have the same input devices, there might be devices without any touch screen or hardware keys.
* Software for one device can not be guaranteed to be ok on another device. What will the QA be like, can there even be a single QA? It it hard to develop for a device which one does not have. Additionally, who even cares about some devices they do not have?
* GTK and QT need to learn to live together even better than before.
* Single software stack will help to convince developers seeking a market.
* Ovi Store and Intel AppUp Center, already two separate places for software, what if one more store comes out? How about Repositories?
* Will I be able to move my DRM'd programs and files from Nokia MeeBoo to Intel MeeToo?
* MeeGo GTK will not not compute on S60.

=> code once, use every does not apply? Will it be necessary to port software from MeeGo to MeeGo to get it work on different devices? How these internal boundaries will be defined and made secure?

Two corporations make better cake than one?
* Does moblin really have "community" or just paid drones? Moblin-dev, the only mailing list they have had 3 mails today, yesterday 1, last friday 1. Didn't bother to check the irc channel.
* It might be more natural for maemo to swallow moblin, but it seems that as there is two corporation in helm, a third instance has to be created. (MeeGo even has a dictator duo, that is one "benovolent dictator" per company)
* How much there will be "design by commitee"?
* MeeGo, is it distribution or a platform? Add a lot of old software components and few new software components.. rpm faq entry on packaging sound more like a distribution than platform.
* Where is the nice and soft .org? Corporations say, community follows?

p.s. "Meego is a short-lived American science fiction sitcom... 1997... was canceled half way through its first season."

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I agree in doubting that any technical advantage one way or the other had anything to do with this decision. But, since RPM is the package format that the Linux Standard Base endorses, this make sense.

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/colla...workgroups/lsb

Stop spreading pessimisitic rumours
 

STOP SPREADING PESSIMISTIC RUMORS

Folks -

There is enough pessimism to go around with the actual hardware and "current" usability. Do not add your pessimism to this based on what you think the future is. Ain't helping anyone. If you have time to kill, please do so constructively by making people enjoy what they have and help trying to overcome some of the issues they are facing.

As a side note - Oistano (VP, Nokia) specifically said Meego will come to N900. link: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2359259,00.asp

Re: Stop spreading pessimisitic rumours
 

The way I interpret it is "devices LIKE the N900", which may not include the N900 itself.

I am a pessimist by nature, and the way Nokia handled the N900 so far does not given much ground for optimism.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

to be a bit of a pedant about that, he didn't specifically say that the N900 would get Meego, he said it would benefit from Meego. not really the same thing,

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Noob here. I am just about to head off to work and i stumble upon this ameego fellow. Firstly will this run on my n900 that i just bought not so long ago. Secondly does this mean that there wont be any ovi store with paid apps or anymore development for this device? Tell me quick before the rest of New Zealand wakes up and I can sell this thing.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

My 2 cents is I think this is a good move by Nokia. It will make the OS much more credible.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

The first MeeGo release is expected in the second quarter of 2010, with new devices coming next year.


new divices in 2011 and in the second quarter of 2010 what? ther'is only N900 now... i hope :)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Um, what? It's a packaging format change - what are you talking about?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Oh, will it?

AFAIK, there have not been any Moblin devices, apart from announcements, since the project started 2007. I don't think that Intel can contribute any kind of credibility in this area.

The credibility of Nokia (and the OS) depends on whether they care for their products and customers, or not.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

this announcement as no impact on nokias software services at all, if anything it could help make them better, so in short the ovi store will still exist and get paid content and intel will have a store for non nokia meego products and theres still ongoing development for n900

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I am as apprehensive as the next guy, because Nokia has a habit of not supporting devices up to its end of life, it's not that we expect a infinite length of commitment to a product. But when you purchase a product such as a phone, you expect that the company will support the hardware through warranty, and the software through bug fixes/ patches, updates. After PR1.2, how long before another update to fix bugs for which are certain to crop up? Will we be put on hold for MeeGo?

I doubt a relationship with a cut throat like Intel will end well, remember what they did to AMD, and how they had to pay up 1.2 billion for their conduct. Also what they did to the OLPC and their involvement in the Vista compatible scandal. I also personally don't like Moblin, and see no use for it in a mobile setting. Although I do see the profit and the good business this can potentially bring to Nokia ... but tread carefully as Intel is also looking to fill it's interest.

I wait and see, someone up in Nokia and Intel prove my fears wrong.

BTW, I wanted to add as a side. Anyone watch or catch Nikolas Savander say that Nokia Ovi Maps will be available to all the smartphone that have gps enabled in March?

Watch the 12:15 MWC conference from this site, it should be the first to load.

http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm

From 4:10 to 4:25

I wonder what it means for Ovi Maps on the N900?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I think it is a great move. The one advantage Android had over Maemo was that it could be licensed by other manufacturers while Maemo was exclusive to Nokia. That advantage is gone. That should bring in more third party interest, both from software and hardware developers. I expect my N900 to last me about three years. I foresee it running Maemo for the first 1.5 to 2 years. I will probably switch to MeeGo for the third. Then I will probably want to get a new device with more hardware resources. :)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

If I had just bought an N900 with a 24 months contract I'd be soiling my pants right about now taking Nokia's track-record of developing A.D.D. as soon as some other project is in the pipeline - and forgetting all about their old devices/operating systems :)

I hope all Maemo5 users like their current Nokia delivered functionality - as that is most likely all that is ever going to BE delivered now :)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

lol good one

And facing one lukewarm commercial acceptance after another, Nokia will go back to its root and release NoMo (based on a previous attempt called maemo).

But seriously, I think the community has been reacting to this major major news very well so far. My hats off to it... and I hope the transition will go on smoothly and will be beneficial for everyone involved, especially the consumer.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

*sigh* That was really nasty. I wouldn't be so sure that it has been fixed.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Exactly. In the 10 years I've used linux I've run rpm-based distros almost all the time with great success. Using CentOS 5.4 now which has flawlessly upgraded itself since I installed it as 5.1. Does anyone really believe RedHat could sell very expensive systems to banks and huge corporations to run their mission-critical stuff with if the rpm system wasn't up to the task?

Get over it. Dependency problems are a thing of the past .

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Meego = dumb name

What is up with these companies and stupid product names? Pixi, Pre, Wii, iPad...dumb dumb dumb...overpaid execs and marketing people obviously drinking too much. What's next, the Nokia Poopoo running Whoopiwee OS 7?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

As far as I'm concerned this is great news. It means that our developer base has been expanded, as well as the hardware base. It's hard to fathom a situation where we don't see new versions of the OS pushed onto the n900.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

For all the bitter comments I posted here, I would like to add that I like the N900 very much. I like the look and feel of the UI, even if there may be room for improvement here and there (therefore I am a little sceptical about the switch to Qt, since the demos I have seen are not that encouraging from the aesthetic point of view, however as long as they stay with the UI design, I don't care what toolkit is used).
I accept that initially the software is missing features, but I expect Nokia to remedy this in future updates (for the N900, to be sure!), even if not all promises can be held.
Otherwise I would have to assume that Nokia is treating its customers like idiots.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

How many of them were ARM based? none?
That's because Debian based distirbutions like Maemo or Ubuntu have
full ARM ports but Fedora based ones do not.
see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44597

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Thanks. I needed a good laugh this morning.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

They want names whose URL is available and which haven't been trademarked yet. (The second doesn't apply to Apple. :p)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

you really think it affects the paid store or maps or nokia messaging?
answer is no they would exist with or without Meego.
Any way thought you had left oh thats correct you only show up these days to whine or make fun

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Here's the funny part.

I was playing around a few weeks ago with the idea for a new kind of meeting website. I scribbled out a lot of ideas and tested them on Whois. One in particular sounded really good (although juvenile) and I checked it: the .com was taken, but not the .net. I was really, really close to registering that.

Guess the name. ;)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Ah but it's good to see that you are still here to keep it a friendly place :)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I try, I swear, but I just can not be happy about this news.

http://www.maemoit.org/extra/lapide.jpg

I am really shocked and sad. :(

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

AFAIK the current system is Debian-based. This means that it uses the Debian's system (packaging) and all the split packages. For example, KDE is split into a number of packages for Debian. This also happens for a number of programs and libraries Maemo uses. Switching to RPM doesn't mean only that the system will be repacked with RPM. It also means that another distribution will be used, meaning (among other things) that libraries will not be split (the same way) and that not all configuration files will go into /etc.

Take for example /etc/network/interfaces. This is debian specific and most probably will be different (or don't exist) in Meego.

In other words: Debian goodies (except from packaging) will be gone.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

One of the main reasons to purchase the N900 was to be Debian based.
I hope the community could push Mer as an alternative.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

This is superb news. Having Intel join forces with Nokia will increase the mindshare of maemo and should help it avoid being crushed by the Android/iPhone momentum.

Intel has done impressive things in open source e.g. paid for a lot of the recent improvements to Xorg.

The idea that the whole stack should be controlled by the Linux foundation rather than a single company is huge. I hope to see many devices in many form factors.

There seems to be be a lot of negativity around RPM/deb. It seems to me such a tiny side issue. As a happy user of Maemo, Fedora, Red Hat and Unslung I can safely say that the differences are largely historic. The small differences that remain are hardly the big news today.

I understand the concern from N900 owners (I am one myself) that their devices will be obsolete. But today's announcement doesn't obviously change the odds of their device being supported into the future, so I don't understand the negativity in this thread.

This is great news, and I look forward to the first release.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I am a Fedora user and contributor. So Debian goodies, as you call them, will be replaced by Fedora goodies. There is nothing that Fedora does better or worse than Debian. Each one has its idiosyncrasies. I do find RPM packaging easier, but that's only because I know it better. As for /etc, it's about the same, Fedora network config is in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts.

Despite this, I also concur that is does not make much sense to move from a Debian-based system. First, because it worked well and Maemo in this form has matured. Second, as someone pointed out, the lack of maturity of ARM-based Fedora.

But, again, this has nothing to do with inherent quality of both distributions. There are many things that I like better on Fedora, and some good ideas from Debian and Ubuntu have been integrated into Fedora.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

That's a valid point. However, all Maemo software currently is built for a Debian system. The transition will require a lot of effort.

I'd like very much to listen to the reasoning behind the transition. For example, it would make sense if there are plans for an official Redhat distribution for mobiles. After all they should be interested in selling support to mobile companies like Nokia, LG, etc.

p.s. I've a question (no intention on starting a flame): Is it possible to upgrade a Redhat system a'la "apt-get dist-upgrade"? IOW, do you think that OS upgrades (SSUs as Nokia calls them) will be possible?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Hi,
i think this fusion is very promising, especially for increasing of users the new platform can catch....More Users = More Developer = More App but on top of all More HACK :D

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I agree Moblin is more developer-oriented. Presently there are MeeGo blogs, but no discussion threads where anyone can start a thread, for example. However, if it serves Nokia and Intel that could change. Furthermore, as soon as there are devices out with the MeeGo OS there will be sites up to cater for the users as well, whether it's done officially by MeeGo or by affiliates such as Maemo.org. Just look at what happened on here in a few months time. So this community could be turn into a Maemo MeeGo community. As long as there are enthusiasts on here who want to drive it I wouldn't worry too much about the losing the Council aspect. Of course interest from Nokia will help. I believe it is in their interest to include or create forums for users as well.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

apt would be replaced by yum.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

That's one of the reasons I would keep Debian as the basis.

That would not be useful, since Redhat is mostly a server OS. They made the (in my opinion wise) decision to no longer offer a Home/Desktop version, so they can concentrate on the server business. This is one of the reasons their business still works well.

It is possible to make a YUM upgrade, but it is not as mature as the apt-get upgrade. The best and safest way is still to boot an installation DVD to upgrade.

BTW, YUM works well, but with a large number of packages it becomes quite slow. This is not a problem with today's desktop power, but with the limited performance of mobile devices, it will be an issue.

So again, as a Fedora "fan", I still advocate to stay with the current Debian basis.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Yeah... apt works nice and never needed it.. but if we move to yum.. one of the first things I'll try to port is the Smart Package Manager... last time I used it on an RPM system it worked wonders.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Let's look at the bright side: those who kept those Maemo Summit T-shirts are now suddenly in possession of very valuable collector items :-)