Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

There were rumors Nokia is going to bring only one more Symbian Phone, the successor to N8. Nokia/MSFT is scared sh*tless because sales of WP7 flopped so badly.

There are still a lot of people who have a lot of trust in Nokia, in emerging/ developing markets where they are still big. And those people are buying Symbian when they buy a Nokia smartphone cause that is what they know. And if they are looking for a different platform than Symbian, they look at iOS, Android and blackberry, and mostly move to Android and iOS. That is what is happening in India, traditionally one of the biggest markets and stronghold of Nokia

So now they probably will kill Symbian, so all those people who are going to buy Nokia smartphone have only one option: WP7. This way they want to make sales of WP7 higher artificially.

By the way , don't you think it is funny that Mynokiablog.com always are trying to present the sales of Lumia as if they sold very well, always focusing on small markets like The Netherlands? I live there and I can tell you I don't see much WP7/ Lumia around here. All iOS, BB, Android here.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I see it in Poland, but unlike the rest I take into account some 100M people whose contracts are about to end in next few months. They will leave nokia, but there is 1B following who will end up with WP they are not tmo fanbois, they will keep to a trusted maker, this is what M$ bought, not iTechie fanbase, people accustimed to high quality will unknowingly build WP

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Symbian is still profitable for Nokia but Elop still want to kill it. there are also rumors that successor of Nokia N8 will be the last Symbian device. I believe if this is true then in the same year (2012) Microsoft will buy Nokia for sure as they will have nothing except WP.

Selling their ad branch which Navteq uses to show ads on Maps and also sold many Patents to other companies wireless related. Wait and watch what will happen next. Nokia will die painfully.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Windows Phone sucks and it'll have shitty sales. Elop will blame everything, look for excuses. Maybe he'll say that N9/N8/whatever is responsible for bad sales and kill it once and for all. Then still no one will buy WP. Then Nokia will be financially a living dead. Then someone decides (Elop? Gates? whoever) to buy Nokia and return to MeeGo/Symbian as a successful systems and Nokia will get value. This way, the buyer will get a great load of $$$.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

From the rumblings deep in the bowels of Nokia, WP7 is already enjoying sh¡tty sales. It's gonna be an uphill struggle for them to cling to the fraying rope that is WP7. What's HTC's stance on WP7, are they enjoying better sales or are they struggling to push their devices with it on.
Nokia, on the other hand popped the champagne corks a few weeks ago when they announced that they had sold their 1.5billionth S40 device to date.
Seems the options are to cling to a platform that's just barely staying afloat or take a couple of steps back and go back to Meego or Maemo. I'm not sure about Android at this moment in time, after reading of their latest attempts to integrate everything Google into one "ecosystem". And yeah, I hate that word, means nothing to me, sounds just like a passing fad.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I wouldn't wanna have an Android phone... (one great spied user experience - now they're gonna register e.g. from where we log in to Gmail, etc.)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I think 'ecosystem' is a euphemism for prison, it's the worst imaginable kind of vendor lock-in.

I originally thought Elop was deliberately driving down the value of NOKIA so M$ could buy it at a knock down price and use NOKIA's extensive patent portfolio as a stick to beat Apple and Google with.

As revealed by the defence in the Barnes and Noble case though there seems to be evidence to suggest Elop has already transferred thousands of NOKIA patents into a third party company in Canada where they are already being exploited to the benefit of M$. If this is the case it means an M$ purchase of NOKIA is probably no longer necessary, Elop will just continue to cream off any patents M$ want.

It's hard to see where NOKIA can go from here, without their prime patents to protect them even if they dumped Elop/WP7 and went back to a high quality, high functioning OS Apple and Google would undoubtedly use their lawyers to give them a kicking.

I'd be very interested to know what motivated NOKIA's board to go along with all this.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

...Sendo, anyone?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Very interesting... Where did you found it out?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I'm not sure what data is collected on stock Android but I'm pretty sure custom ROMs mean nothing is collected.

Pretty much all OS collect your data though so Nokia is no longer safe. WP7 has a habit of collecting data even when you opt out of everything, they were taken to court and denied it for months until Rafael Rivera showed that it was sending location and Wi-Fi data to MS without the users permission. Then further delaying a fix they admitted it was a bug that they would get round to fixing in the next major release. Then another privacy bug was found after the first was fixed ,in the Me hub, which also sends your wi-fi data to MS.

MS argue that they (much like Google and their Streetview cars) "unintentionally" collected this data from you, do you think MS are going to delete the data now that they have it? Fat chance.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

And what about CSSU? is N900 collecting data?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Seeing as Jorma Ollila, Bengt Holmström and Per Karlsson are all leaving the board I'd assume that some aren't happy about their new plans.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I don't think it is, no. I don't think it was even without CSSU but I'm not sure. I was just referring to Nokias from now on.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Don't think Nokia's were data mining previously to WP7. Maybe our N900s sent a SMS when we updated the firmware at one time, (as far as I'm aware mine didn't even do that).
Maybe the networks are sucking it all in through their services.
I used to get hell and all unsolicited texts when I had my Vodafone branded N95 mostly stuff I'd searched for when using the Vodafone Live portal. Eventually I think STOP was the only suggestion that ever came up from the T9 dictionary.
I've probably had 1 every 6 months or less frequent with the N900.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Jorma was already leaving - said so in 2010 when OPK was still CEO that he'd be leaving in 2012. Not sure about the rest though.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

It was a few days after they announced Elop
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...239171870.html

I would have been annoyed too.

How right they were and how little we knew.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

And is "My Nokia" user-spying stuff?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

direct link.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Wow.......

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I can't stop thinking that either somebody in Nokia is hopelessly stupid or they are deliberately torpedoing market share. The have now unleashed a giant Lumia 800 ad campaign here in Greece. But

1. They have pulled all other nokia high-end smartphones from the shelves. So there is no synergy from the NOKIA moniker appearing everywhere. No E7, no N8 no X7.

2. They have placed the Lumia in stores next to the iPhone 4S. There is not one spec in which the Lumia is better than the 4S, and the 4S screen looks way better in store. (I love AMOLEDs, I would choose one every time, but a brightly lit operator store does not help to show off the awesome blacks of amoleds, and the superior color and resolution of the Retina LCD is winning there)

3. The Lumia is actually more expensive than the 4S subsidised. Maybe this is under 1year vs 2year lock (unsubsidized the Lumia is cheaper) in but this was nowhere stated clearly (not even in the small print) so the consumer wouldn't know until they've made their desicion.

4. The ads are teenager oriented. Current nokia owners (NOKIA is no teenager brand, more of a mercedes of phones, that makes durable, reliable phones with good battery life and good cameras. "With contact groups your dirty pictures and your mom will never meet". Their words. Teenagers have less money to spend on phones, read tech articles, and love iPhones. And everybody else is left out in the rain to go android. Where will former E7 or N8 users go? They will be completely driven off with such a campaign.

5. IE is all over the place, as if it's a killer feature. Everybody knows IE is crap, especially teenagers. You don't advertise IE, you hide it. IE has less than 25% market share in desktops, behind firefox and chrome here in Greece. People do not like IE, most of those who use it, are forced to (workplace) or don't know any better (probably non smartphone users anyway)

So all that ad money goes to... iPhone. Even me, who's been changing Nokia handsets since the N-Gage, if I was drawn to a vodafone store and saw the iPhone next to the Lumia, better and cheaper, I would buy the iPhone.

I fear this ad campaign will be the swan's song for Nokia. They don't seem to understand simple market rules. We 'll see.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Oh my... after reading this, i can't decide if i should chuckle silently (@office right now) or "set mode +sad" instead.

After the news about Nokia probably shelving everything Symbian-related but one N8 successor, i was actually expecting a stunt like this: axing most of their devices in that category/device class, to prevent possible customers choosing Symbian/other devices instead of the Lumia apeshit. "Those are not the devices you are looking for..." *swipe*

Yeah, as if artificial market restrictions had helped previously...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Firstly, This is opinion, not fact. It isn't born out by the current global figures. All the major stat counters (StatCounter, Net Application, W3 Counter, Clicky etc) show IE being ahead globally. Yes, there are regional variations and yes IE's market share has dropped over the years, but that does not support your above contention.

Secondly, the version of IE on Windows Phone 7 is actually IE Mobile 9, which is not the same thing as desktop IE9 (just as the Mozilla-based MicroB on the N900 is not the same thing as Mozilla Firefox); they could just as easily called it Fred.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Lumia ads here on tv are horrible. E.g. this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DE-ocFoKTA

does it get more impersonal?


I still think wp7 sucks at winning customers in store. First thing you see are those ugly tiles (how somebody can say they're not ugly is beyond my comprehension), and while everything is nicely animated there is no immediate emotional attachement.

For example its difficult to see when an UI element is clicked. Something to get used to I guess but every customer out there expects a big fat visual hint.

Maybe I'm too conservative, but everytime I touch a wp7 handset it feels alien somehow. In constrast to ios, android, webos and meego.

Problem is buying a mobile phone is not a rational decision, in fact its something very emotional for most people out there. I guess MS does not understand this.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

It pretty much is the same, only reskinned, just as microb is the same as Mozilla Firefox. The web browser engine is still the same. Microb and Firefox are still Gecko, IE and IE Mobile are still Trident.


Exact same ad is everywhere, only translated.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Fragmentation. Plus still the fact that symbian would be the #1 of costs no matter how much you make meego, android and wp phones...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

how about the hardware?

what about adapting the "free" linux to hardware? If I remember correctly, Maemo project still costs some millions per year. That is bit much from "free" OS IMO.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...figures%29.png

when was the burning platform stuff again?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

The US T-Mobile ads featuring the 800 and 710! are even worse. Especially the ones including that NBA league game as a live stream.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I was specifically talking about Greece. Here IE is not a strong brand. And the stats are real for Greece. I just presumed, with good reason, that the stats are even less rosy for IE in the teenager segment. Finally IE mobile is not really mobile, it's just a IE9 cramped down to 800x480, no touch events, or other mobile specifications.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Oh come on!

http://www.computerworld.com/common/...et%20Share.jpg

Hm, iPad is a failure, Apple must ditch it.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I use IE7 at work, because I'm forced to. It's fact that it's worse than ff, chrome, or IE8/9, but I'm still using it. Considering how many people use Internet at work, this is a significant bias in the "global figures". And being an IT friendly browser does not sell to teenagers (that's fact too).

And they should have called it Fred. Because of the Brand. The intrinsic cappabilities of IE Mobile 9 don't count when choosing a mobile in the shop. The name does. But I don't have figures on opinions on mobile browsers, so it's hard to back this up completely.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

But I'm sure properietary system would cost more. And even with the M$ support, it'd be harder to move it to other devices

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Your graph shows market share not profit.

At the moment Elop announced Symbian EOL it had:

1) Never made a loss in any quarter EVER.
2) Never been outsold in any quarter ever.
3) Growing sales (just not growing as fast as the overall market, hence the reduction in market share)
4) Increasing margins (as a result of the introduction of the N8)

Sure the UI NOKIA had on top of Symbian was rather fusty and desperately needed a revamp but it was still holding up well enough to give them time to get that fixed.


As NOKIA invented the smartphone if you follow your graph back far enough you'd see NOKIA with 100% market share but at that point it would have been a very small market. Now they have a smaller percentage but it's a much bigger market.

Would you swap 100% of your income for 10% of David Beckhams? I'll bet most people would just as I'll bet most companies would have loved the 'problems' NOKIA had before Elop induced meltdown.


Anyhow, I'd suggest it's better to lose your number one position than lose control of your own destiny. Unfortunately NOKIA have lost both.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Have you seen met anyone with a WP in Greece??? I haven't, I;ve seen them in the stores but never seen anyone using it LOL and the funniest part is that the Nokia name is also fading.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I've got one :) (not nokia though) but ues I haven't seen anybody else xcept nokia employees.

The important thing about ossipena's graph is that even in 2014 projection shows symbian > than 4 times WP

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Probably yes, yet this doesn't affect any of my points.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Our graph have one tiny difference. Please let me know when you see it...

e: sorry, at least two things...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Does it matter how big symbian would be if it starts bleeding money?

As you can see from my graph which was released 22.9.2011, ~10%-point decline in market share while spending over 4B€ every year to platform plus two competitors gaining more and more users day by day. At least I would see risk of margin meltdown that would lead to massive loss and total default.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...al_ball_th.php

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Exactly, it shows declining market share. The decision was about hanging on to own os, failure would lead into default or transforming company into pure HW + services (outside the next billion)