Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

No, actually, if you read the articles and look at the highlights in the evidence, you'll note that there were pictures of people with heavy gear--not cameras--like the one in the shadow and then there's the behind-the-scenes images with clearly more professional gear taking the photos. Again, you're not really bothering to read the stuff being cited here and you look unqualified to discuss this with us yet. Please go back and study and try again. Thanks for trying, though.

You neglected to post the reply to that quote above:
"still fake, if lumia 920 look nothing like this we will know , mobile review, and gsmarena showing full resolution and comparing them"

If you're going to quote a non-Nokia person making excuses, I'm justified to reply in kind for the opposing argument--with the addition of evidence that has already been outlined here in the thread. Nokia botched this up--just admit it and move on so we can talk about their presentation and about the stock.

This is exactly what I've been pointing out with the articles and you're right. Plus--you make a very fair statement that I had to learn the hard way about ANYTHING Nokia:

Wait until you see one in your own hands and then give it a little more time, before you buy it, to see how Nokia handles that product. NEVER buy anything Nokia on blind faith or promises. Nokia has had a poor track record of nearly always ultimately screwing customers in the end one way or another more than any other major manufacturer.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

:D:eek::D

Somebody walked by the photo shoot in Helsinki and took his own picture.

Click to get full sized picture. Note the professional lighting gear and on the left edge a partly seen tripod and what appears to be a DSLR.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...02634455_n.jpg

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You might as well discuss angels and pins. Seriously, soon we will have tons of "reviews" 920 vs iPhone vs SGS3 vs whatever. In the mean time the focus is on Nokia. It's all just a show.

Now, go home, drink your milk and go to sleep.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Yes, except we discuss Nokia and stock value. Until there ARE actual units to "review", the focus will continue to be on this silly announcement show and the marketing around it.

Now, go out, drink yourself drunk and go to sleep. :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

http://gerbick.com/images/drunk.jpg

Way ahead of you...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Why isn't there a LIKE button on this thread?? UGH! This is why we can't have nice things! :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I was wondering myself how the shares could drop 15% the very day of the announcement of the new flagship unit (and its smaller companion). After some thought I came up with following main reasons:

• somewhat unrefined presentation (we're used to it, though)
• mention of WP8, but nothing about why it's better than the current version
• no mention of release date and price point
• no tablet! - several other makers have announce W8 tablets a few days ago
• using Pureview brand that even main stream media covered as meaning 41MP, yet on the new flagship it means 8MP with image stabilization and some post-processing
• since the stock price is so low it is a target for high profile speculators playing their games, e.g. pumping the price on the ramp-up to the event, then dumping it (also note the spikes due to after-hour trading)

And all this even before the fake-footage story went through all the blogs.. Poor Microkia..


http://picturepush.com/photo/a/92817...w-lumia920.png

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I find it odd that someone with no interaction would want to pick this thread to jump in and sing praises of Windows Phone and how it's natural for the unenlightened to be against it but it's surely the fantastic choice.

Anyway, just to end the discussion on the fakes, it has been confirmed that the stills were faked too, and anyone who claimed differently is now once and forever proved to be peremptory with no basis in fact. There.

The official story is that the images were made to illustrate a difference between image stabilization and no image stabilization. The girl-in-helsinki-at-night scene had professional lightning and a system camera were used. Anyway, they say that without professional lightning, even a system camera would not be able to take that photo, because where she's standing, she'd not have a street light near and she'd not be front lit like that. And then, a picture from the photo shoot surfaced, so that's that.

Image stabilization can't add a large light source, it turns out.

http://st.gsmarena.com/vv/newsimg/12...marena_001.jpg

http://st.gsmarena.com/vv/newsimg/12...marena_004.jpg

A source

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nok1V stocks, Euros, Helsinki.
1 week view.


http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...bac47dfcb7.png

Investors and analysts already know ads are lies and don't seem to care much about the faked images story. Damage seems to be negligible, down yesterday and up today.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Its a great phone guys, and I love my email and WP8 email is the best!!!
As I said, if I can adjust my fonts on this baby, I am buying it!!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Has anybody else noticed how little of the screen is actually used?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...0_2330131b.jpg

The 920 might as well have a tiddly little screen like an fbiPhone!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

No, I think you are the only one. we are all blind.

Do you think the dead space will affect stock price or what?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Of course, if it affects sales it will affect the share price.

Why would you want to buy a phone the size of a house brick if there's no advantage to it?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I doubt that is an issue that affected sales in any real volumes, much less the stock price.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

the screen starts where the tile starts at the bottom and ends at the clock on the upper right. the 900 is similar too, and i like it. makes me thing the whole black part is the screen with its 0 black level amoled. not so sure about the 920's ips lcd though

The Verge conducted some camera tests, its interesting that it still performed well.

Video summary

article and samples

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

When you scroll down do the tiles go all the way up to the clock before they start to disappear off the screen?

Can you adjust the default margin width around the display?

What happens when you play video, does that use the whole screen or just a little rectangle in the middle?

I was looking at the new Motorola Razr M and I really like the way the display goes all the way to the edge (but I still think they've left too much of a void at the bottom).
http://cdn4.digitaltrends.com/wp-con.../786793388.jpg

I really think NOKIA / M$ have made a big mistake if you're stuck with that large black surround.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I've just seen the answer to this question in the video you linked to, they travel right underneath the clock, which leaves me feeling they've got the starting position of the tiles too low (and they should also widen them right to the edges).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

That Motorola screen really makes the 920 look like this: http://www.fvempel.nl/amstradcg/metia/anb386sx20.jpg

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

it scrolls all the way to the top, but like iOS and android theres a bar for the battery clocks wifi etc.

videos and any apps can fill the screen

nokia wasnt known to have thin bezels, but my theory is it doesnt break the glass when dropped on its side, because obviously its strong from the front showed in this video lumia 900 hammer testthanks to gorilla glass

im guessing the thicker bezels absorb more energy when hit, if the plastic is soft enough, which it should be as my gf dented the corner of her 900 today. glass was ok.

at certain angles gorilla glass seems to fail
http://phone-techs.com/wp-content/up...hone-Techs.png
which is also true for nokias, at least i'd like to think that nokias are built like a brick, because i dont like adding cases or protectors to my devices and ruin its industrial design

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

To me it looks even more fragile than iPhone. There's almost nothing to absorb the impact energy when you drop it. Almost like it's designed to break.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Just take a look at other windows phones. look at the one to the right. almost have half of the screen is not used. That will for sure affect nokia stock price :D

http://i47.tinypic.com/2gtpv13.jpg

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

i watched the keynote/ presentation. What Nokia brought to the table was so called pureview,wireless charging the design,and puremotion,rest was Windows 8. Okay nothing really groundbreaking!, if they would of released that leaked MeeGo lauta,world would of been turned on their heads! I see Windows 8 is modern but really its not as enticing :/ i live in America and its really sad after what 2-3 years Windows phone hasn't amounted to much?
Im also an N9 owner and if this phone was sold worldwide Nokia could perhaps be within a better financial standing.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Well, one thing is for certain:

I've never read a tech blogger excited about the news a Nokia/Windows phone bring. For the N9 and N900, I have. Not going to say that it wouldn't fail to bring Maemo to the mass market. But Windows 7.x did fail Nokia.

That's a tangent to this topic, cause Windows 7.x1) was what brought the stock prices this far down.

Here's how last week ended. NOK / SE / dollars:

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...3dd99d66b0.png



1) Actually it was Elops horrendous implementation of the Windows strategy, to be more precise.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

its what will happen around chrismas how nokia succes with new phones...

if selling doesn't go up, Elop is history next year. However even if he gets fired its to late change strategy now. So there is only one way for them and that is not loose more customers.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Why is it always "too late" to change strategy? Granted, it's difficult and the odds are against it but wasn't Apple very nearly bankrupt and doing so badly it was living off of business welfare funding from the government and ready to shut its doors JUST before hiring Jobs back in and COMPLETELY changing its strategies? You can ALWAYS change your strategy and turn it around. It's just a matter of whether you're making a SMART new strategy. The Windows Phone strategy was already a losing strategy from the beginning--it was already the worst platform with the lowest market share with a low trend and the tightest restrictions on what hardware it can be put on. How COULD Nokia think that was a winning strategy? I always had the sense that Windows Phone was on other OEM's as a matter of obligating some contractual or patent obligations to Microsoft. They never seemed very enthusiastic about it. How could they? Their hands were tied.

Nokia needs to abandon Windows Phone pronto. It's not like this is the first time they've done that.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I think it was two things that made up Nokia's mind. These two things would never be available for any other company so no point in make an example. Firstly, nokia was market leaders with an overwhelming market share. No way they want to sink to One of many Android vendors. Secondly, Microsoft paying them Hugh a mounts yearly during the transition period.

It most have been an easy choice when the destination was made to ditch symbian and meego.

And no, Nokia's straight will not be decided around Christmas. As long as they growing and the have money there is till room improvements.

Android and IOS needed several years to grow.

Let's see what happens when windows 9 comes out and the contracts ends with Microsoft. That is when the call is made. Good, Bad or ugly?

After that change strategy or keep going!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I wonder how this announcment will hit nokia stock...

http://www.livestream.com/applefansite

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

^ This.

Exactly what I've been thinking. Nobody but WPCentral seems to be excited about WP8. And even then, it seems forced.

Worse part, there's 7 million - I think that's the last numbers that were given to us - that cannot upgrade to WP8. Instead, they have to settle for WP7.8, which will not have all of the same features and there's no upgrade path.

The curiosity around the N900 and N9 is nothing like it was for the WP7 devices. People wanted to read more about Maemo/MeeGo. What made it different. What hardware was running underneath.

With WP7, everybody knew it was running the same hardware, maybe a tweak to the display and form factor. But the question remained... why would anybody care?

WP8 is going to be same. Why would anybody - reader, enthusiast, geek, early adopter, Nokia fan - care about WP8?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Danramos, its to late because nokia has only a chance in euopean. And what is the alternative? Going android!? tell me WHY would any european buy nokia android when they have others? An if you mean go back to meego thats not an solution now, what devs would makes apps when ashole elop has killed intrests. So again even if most of us dont like it right now wp is the only way for them to take some users from android/ios in europen... I guess in asia and usa they will be very small player.. But summary is Elop is biggest fail :( if he had been fired in feb 11 it had may have a chance to change but now I doubt... And it seems investors also doubt because wtf hasn't they fired him long ago? :/

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Oh my, oh my. Again: what is Nokia trying to do- make profit. How will they make profit: they need idiot proof devices that are part of a good ecosystem. Was meego or Maemo a contender: Never. Nokia is not a software company so what they do: they join the next logical system. Elop did the best thing he could do.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Idiot proof? There's dumbing things down and then there's WP7. I know, it's ironic because I've stated that I actually like WP7 (me stupid, har har) but even I know that compared to the geek-fest of Linux lovin' the N900 was, and to a much lesser extent the N9, folks here don't want an idiot proofed device.

They want control. You're preaching to a group that is not the standard Nokia buyer. Most here are developers, nerds, geeks and combinations therein.

You want to preach about how WP7's ecosystem is a good one? I beg to differ. Compared to iOS and Android, it's still lacking key elements from top ranked 3rd party support that just has yet to appear. And it's a very closed, very walled garden of isolation that requires you to fall into a less open playing field than even iTunes.

Maemo was not a contender. MeeGo could have been one if Nokia and Intel were on the same page. WP7/WP8 should be a contender, but it invariably will not be one either. So far, Microsoft has had almost 3 years to do something with WP7. Nothing happened. So they deadend the devices sold, say that WP8 will be better.

Sorry, but that's what Nokia did with Maemo. It didn't work out too well for them and that lead to MeeGo gaining very little traction. Intel's moved on to Tizen, which cannot be upgraded from MeeGo, so yet again you have a string of devices that rely on customer faith.

None exist for Microsoft. Less is existing for Nokia per day. Your "better ecosystem" mantra has yielded the most severely limited ecosystem out there. Better than Maemo/MeeGo? Only if you like being limited even moreso than the other mobile OS's out there, then yeah... success?

I know you've relegated yourself to resident troll, but seriously dude. Even from a person that uses a Lumia 900 daily, I feel the restrictions of that ecosystem the moment I use my Android tablet or iPad. I feel even more restricted when I travel overseas and I carry my Nokia N9. I can - via a free tweak - turn on wifi tethering and get my iPad on. Had to do so while at stuck at the airport. Can't do that without having to pay for it on my Lumia 900. Screw that...

That's just one thing. There's many more. But what you're spouting, you cannot believe all of it yourself. I know better.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Heh, Lumiaman, tell me what the current stock price is? (compared to what it was just before the N9 was released).

Going by your logic, about Elop doing the best thing he could do, you mean to say had Nokia stuck with MeeGo, or adopted Android, their stock price would be even lower than it currently is? A company's success is judged on it's share value.

Face the facts - Elop made the worst decision he possibly could have made. Look at the stock price. Look at the cash burn rate. Look at the extremely poor Lumia sales. Enough said

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I know who hangs here, and these are the 0.0001% fringers that will not make Nokia money. Hence, what people want on this forum is in many ways selfish, as ordinary man and woman don't want it. Most people will pay rather than learn how to tether using a tweak that they have no idea how to implement. You know that just as well.
Nokia needs to make money. Meego will never cut it, it was beta at release time. Elop saw WP8 as a way to cut thru the incompetence of Nokia in creating what masses want. Hey, I thought that N900 was beautiful, still is. But it requires toooo much tweaking for an average person. People want the device to work out of the box. They got jobs to do , presentations to make, kids to drive to school. They don't want to deal with Xterminal to fix their problems. That is why I sold my three N9s. I gave them away to others and unanimously friends returned them, for all the complaints listed by many here.

Nokia is not a software company. They can't compete with the Sillicon Valley. It's over. In terms of software they are a second division team.
So what is left do Nokia? All I hear here is Elop hate. It's misdirected, shallow and myopic. Elop has to produce profit with a company that can't make software for the masses.

Give solutions here, not just Elop bashing diatribes.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Won't lie, we agree here. Selfish is brought upon mostly by having to deal with walled gardens and limited ecosystems that give us less control and demand more of our money. That's not a sustainable ecosystem honestly. Even iTunes had to diversify to keep people interested.

Wait. I thought it was WP7 that Elop sold as a way out of the hole they had dug? Now it's WP8?

Symbian, Maemo, the best WP7 apps in market (Nokia Drive is pretty damn nice, so is City Lens)... I mean dude. Seriously. Not even Microsoft is in Silicon Valley, so that's not an accurate description of who's competitive.

Elop killed Symbian, laid off all of the MeeGo people, killed a lot of their software devs, kept a few that are churning out decent WP7 projects and your stance is quite flawed in that one aspect.

Elop did the worst thing possible. He killed a product and had no product ready to replace it that very same day. February 2011 will forever been the day that he killed all sales of Symbian and didn't offer anything in its place.

That's almost as bad as the Osborne effect. He talked about what was wrong, what they were not going to sell any longer, didn't say what they had in the wings. He offered nothing, not even an upgraded version.

Well, WP7 didn't help. WP8 ain't gonna help (we'll have to see). This has turned into where the solutions have not been well received by the folks that have the money and customer loyalty for Nokia products are at an all-time low.

Thus the vitriol. Nothing has worked to help Nokia so far yet brought up by Elop. Time for a switch man. Do something new or different.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Luckily nokia still has its asha phones.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I don't think you guys get it. Nokia was successful before real competition showed up. Once android and iOS showed up, Nokia became history. History. They were seizing upon inteoduction of iphone. They knew since 2007 that they had to convert Symbian to touch phone, and they couldn't do it. They couldn't do it. And they still can't. Did you try out Symbian Belle...it's so uncompetitive. Symbian was dead after that. Very dead. Muy dead. Deep six dead. Yes, Nokia could have gone Android. Perhaps they would have done better with it. But nothing they had in house was a solution. They were beaten by superior forces and execution. Sometimes you got to look deep inside yourself and decide what am I good at it. They lost the software war. Will they lose the hardware war? And Elop has nothing to do with it .

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Oh he did have everything to do with it. Nokia lost the war with Symbian, they didn't with MeeGo. Elop killed it on release. The customers didn't kill it, the carriers didn't kill it, Elop killed it. Plain and simple. MeeGo never entered the "war", so it had no chance of winning with Elop at the helm.

But I forgot your reasoning is severely skewed and flawed, so this is where i'll stop

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The tag team lumias will hit the street in November. That will give IdiotPhone almost a months head start. When nokia realize that the will speed up the release date for selected markets :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Er ... my N9 does wifi tethering out of the box. No tweaking necessary. I believe the limitation is only in the US

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Meanwhile, in Helsinki:

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...d161b65c7b.png

Seems Helsinki Nok1V stock price picks up just about where it stopped Friday.