Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Finally some good point at TMO. Best comment for long. Couldn't resist to even link it on twitter :)

I take that for granted. Finish company not supporting Jolla phones would be EPIC FAIL

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Is it possible to transfer battery charge through i2c interface?
I want a spare battery as "Other half". :confused:

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Agree with this... but... at the same time... I wouldn't complain if Sailfish had good optimization, good memory management BUT still launched with 3GB RAM and a quad core CPU. Would you? :D *nerdgasm*

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

You dont need to. Theres battery in and out for other half

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

On the jolla page it says extension interface for power in/out. You may not get other half battery as a separate additional battery but you can get a new battery with higher capacity and change it with another one. The power input/output can be used for OHs like solar charger.

Normally I2C only has 2 data lines. Some products has also gnd and vcc pins in addition to data. For example wii nunchuck and motion plus has 4 pins (gnd, sda, scl, vcc). We will see if jolla gathered them in one socket or multiple.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

I like the majority of your post, but I take issue with that "secondary" device comment (especially since you appended 'at best' to that). There's no fundamental reason in modern times why one's mobile phone couldn't be a/the primary device in their life, and it is this thinking that they're automatically secondary or worse that leads to so many limitations in modern mobile devices, methinks.

My N900 is my primary device in many respects, and if it weren't for the lack of sufficiently up to date browser, a modern office suite (I'm talking like the entire LibreOffice, not just the code text/spreadsheet/presentation editing that passes for mobile office suites nowadays), it would be my primary device, period.

As an aside with RAM though - I am no stranger to low RAM devices, and often I too would express the same sentiment as you, but I will say, when I recently got upgraded from a 3GB RAM computer to an 8GB RAM computer (as well as similar jumps in specs across the board), it does make a pretty noticeable difference for my use cases. It's subtle and minor, but it pervades everything in a way that adds up. So while I too look at people decrying 1 GB of RAM on a mobile device as too low and facepalm at it, the benefits it can bring are definitely sufficient that I wouldn't call it 'mindless ranting' for just that.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

I would, since it would drain the battery in no time.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Agree

+ Jolla has really been selling the whole 'Multitasks better than no other mobile, true multitasking', etc thingy. That's my main fear about the 1gb. It might be enough, its possible, but if its not, then they have cripled one of the main selling points of their platform.

Also happens to be one of the main things why I want Jolla phone. But no problem if they have sorted out the software so well, that 1gb won't hinder multitasking.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

My only fear about the 1gb is how will ACL respect that because those apps are normally bloated and that's without adding in the actual process for compatibility.

MeeGo was crazy efficient. So I can assume that SailfishOS is as well. But 1gb, true multi-tasking + Android compatibility is where my concern for the 1gb of RAM comes in.

We'll see though. I'm still hopeful.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Thats like saying that Mickey Mouse is an old comic.

Rovio has turned it into the 2nd biggest license platform on the planet. Only Disney pushes more crap (toys, candy, whatever) than Rovio does. Its hugely popular and way beyond being just an old game.

I don't care about Angry Birds products either, but Rovio is huge and getting them on the sail boat would be a huge opportunity for Jolla. It alone would get them extra sales and - even more importantly - other big boys might follow Rovio's lead.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Lol anyone consider angry bird a deal breaker should not be allow to carry a smartphone ;)

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

An Angry Birds Other Half would be pretty cool, and very marketable. It would also be a nice touch, if I'm not mistaken, the first platform they ported AB (from iOS) to was fremantle in 2010.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Maybe that's part of the point? To lure users to use/lobby for native Sailfish applications, while not restricting the user from accessing their favourite ones that otherwise aren't available?

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

It would be quite dumb for jolla to intentionally cripple the android experience in order to promote native app development.

I think on older android versions the memory limit for dalvik processes is 24MB or so anyhow, only native code can exceed this. Don't know about recent android versions, and wether jolla will support native code as well.

So 1Gb doesn't seem to be unuseable low, even with a couple of android apps running.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

I agree with your other points, but I didn't mean what you understood :-) I don't think that Jolla will _intentionally_ cripple Android applications, but it will certainly not:
- Stick 16GB of RAM to run them competitively
- Hack them so that you get the Sailfish experience (you know, all those buttons in the multitasking window et al)

Marc said already that "if you want the full Sailfish experience, you'll have to use native app[lication]s".

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Weeeelll I am not going to run any Android crap on my device if I can avoid it[*], so that should not be any limit for me.

[*] Unfortunately it looks like I am going to have to run at least one piece of Android crap on my device.... Just today I learnt that the bloody cheapskates IT-fscking parasites have made a decision to revoke all RSA-hardtokens, "because they are too expensive to maintain" :mad:
What this means is I have to run a RSA-softtoken to get VPNC to my office... and the supported platforms are M$, iOS, Symbian & Android, not Linux, not Harmattan, not Sailfish :(

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

You need just to use google search :)
http://smallhacks.wordpress.com/2013...en-from-linux/

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Tusen Tack!!
I have to admit I even never tried searching for solution, jost got it given it would not work....

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Maybe I understood you wrong a bit intentionally. :D Yes, it's supposed to be a sailfish device, not a better android phone, so optimizing android will not (and should not) be their primary goal. But I don't understand Marc's quote in a way that android apps will feel much worse on a jolla device compared to a mid-end android*, but that they will feel worse compared to sailfish applications.


*for apps that do not deeply integrate with the system, but that's where one would use native stuff anyhow. But for many standard-apps it should work well enough, and it's of great value actually, think local public transport/online ticket apps for example, highly unlikely to get ported to sailfish (except for Finland maybe).

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

The good old days... Here at TMO was even quite active presence from Rovio discussing the Angry Birds port of Fremantle.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Well, it did look possible when they released the OH specs, but here's semi-confirmation: you can stack Other Halves. Providing somebody makes one stackable, obviously.

https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/385353671942230016

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

I also did a quick compile test in sailfish arm target environment. With libtomcrypt you needed to add -fPIC into CFLAGS, and after that compiling stoken was a breeze.

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Apps killed BB, are killing MS, will they abort Jolla

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Android, Is just marketing propaganda from Jolla, for good reasons, because people take for granted android apps is a must. If people buy Jolla because of Android compability well... then they will be disappointed is my guess... Even I do think it will work better than BB10 because of the HW and OS is linux not QNX.


But if Jolla and 3rd success to make native good apps that Android compability is not used more than when you really desperatly need that X/Y/Z app.

Atleast what I hope will happen in the long run even if I realise its probadly a dream :(

I dont get what OTH and AB could use together?

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Jolla confirmed that the virtual keyboard is based on the open source project Maliit - just like on the N9 :)

source

I hope there will be also Swype support and/or some nice and innovative features (like on the BB10 keyboard) :rolleyes:

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

You somehow managed to look past my point of what may become a problem.

Let's simplify. Most 4.x Android devices have more than 1gb of memory and they're running native. Android is bloated. Imagine having only 1gb of RAM and you're then going to run an compatibility layer.

That's a potential problem. I've stated before that ACL is/should be seen as a good thing. I'm now stating that the 1gb RAM could be a future concern.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

Vermillion hells, that is awesome :)

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

I happen to be installing Debian Wheezy on an ancient laptop with a 500Mhz Celeron and 64MB of RAM (don't ask me why) -- at least it has a USB port so I'm using the N900 as router :) --. I guess it's too late to now abort and go for something more sane (Slackware).

But seeing how apt-get/aptitude keeps on "Building dependency tree" and "Processing triggers for man-db" again and again and again sort of reminds me how important is good and well-behaved software.

I used to sorta like Debian. Now I hate them. You can do a lot with a little bit of RAM, but modern software is just FUBAR.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

You are correct, and I have done it in a very selfish way. I won't apologise as I'm entitled to my opinion and I may buy a Jolla for me and nobody else ;-)

I do acknowledge your point though, but I'll explain my rationale: I am _not_ interested in running Android applications (Android native, Android "java", Android whatever). I will be happy to very occasionally put up with a slow Android application where there is no alternative to Sailfish (e.g., an airline applicaiton that holds your boarding pass). That's the use I'm planning to give Android applications running on Sailfish.

All this said, you may guess that I'm making a massive assumption: Sailfish will come with all the basic applications that most users use (e.g., you won't need to use Android's Facebook client, or even worse: an IMAP client!).

There are a lot of valid other points in this thread anyway (maximum memory for Android applications, how much RAM other Android phones have, don't buy a Jolla to use Android applicatoins, etc.). Let's see what happens...

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

The OH doesn't have to be packed with functionality, Jolla's own suggestions included a media company putting media on one, and I see similar for Angry Birds. An OH with an AB pic on the back, that installs an AB ambience and an AB game, heck it could even have an annoying ringtone too. Fun for kids, little and big :).

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

The specs look fine to me. Better make it cheap and sell more. €400 incl tax on release and then lower the price a bit later on and Jolla will hopefully move a few millions of it.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

That's good for you.

Then you sound as if you are the type that as long as you don't use it, you'll have no use for it. That's fair. But as it stands, it's still a feature of the phone. If it's implemented correctly, it will pull in folks that are on the fence or are used to certain apps that will invariably not be out for Jolla on release day.

Even though I don't need it, there's a few apps that I'll want on day one. Skype might make the cut, but my banking software that I use on my phone now as well as some other stuff - say Adobe Ideas or something for sketching out notes and designs will remain high on my list of desirables. Filter in whatever app you'd consider a must have that Jolla will not have on day one and then tell folks that they will have access... boom. More possible sales if the message gets out.

It won't come with all of the basic applications that I'd want. I know that already.

What points? That folks are bellyaching without giving a valid concern or are countering with even more myopic takes on why it's a waste to want a feature because the person making the counterpoint sees no value in thinking like anybody else other than themselves and their uses?

Yeah. I can see that.

Oh well. We'll see. I wish Jolla the best, and perhaps anything I've said as a "concern" will be washed away on day one of their release. Good times we live in indeed.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

if its the same, then I can extend the space bar's length by simply editing the xml file ...weeeeee

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

N9 keyboard was not very good. I always hit the commas or space bar. I hope they don't forget that after wow for UI, people's return their devices due to impractical basics.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

The biggest issue with the n9 keyboard was the screen size. It is simply too small. I fear that the same thing happens to small screen jolla. Writing on small iPhone is simply not good for anyone... I might be fat finger but I see these iPhone users have the phones 2 dm from their eyes to be able to see :D

It's just not all about keyboard, it's about screen size too...

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

I meant valid _technical_ points such as: nobody really knows whether 1GB of RAM is too little. It was mentioned that Android's "java" applications can use up to 24MB - so not sure why 1024MB of RAM is too little for that, unless you want to run ~50 applications at the same time.

I'm an N9 user, and my 1GB of RAM is mostly used for file system caching, so I can tell I really won't need that much more for the time being, maybe in a couple of more years.

On the functional area, points made by people according to their usage (such as myself) are also valid, whether you like it or not. Remember the first iPhone? It didn't have copy+paste, it didn't have 3G. The Nokia 5800 had all of those, and yet who sold more? So, the Jolla will have 1GB of RAM only, will the common user even notice?

I wish them the best too... and don't get me wrong - I'd like to see more RAM, I'd like to have 4GB only because I want to be 1GB better than Dave999 ;-), and I'd like that RAM to consume as little power as current 1GB banks, but I'm also aware that these guys want to be successful quickly. I mentioned elsewhere that all they need to do is to make a "pretty phone", that will hopefully do to get them afloat and then they can do something a bit more high end.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

I agree... it's the same problem that the iPhone 4 has. I almost always use Swype in the N9 anyway, and screen size really doesn't matter, but when I use the terminal it could be a bit of a pain, especially if I attempt to type with 1 hand.

You guys are funny :p N9's keyboard was AMONG THE BEST virtual keyboard there is to exist. I rarely have mistakes, heck, I can even type without looking :p iPhone iOS 7's keyboard was a little better, Android's is just horrible. I'm glad to say at least that it will be using maliit :)

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

I'm not saying that the N9's keyboard is one of the worst, I'm just agreeing with Dave999 that it could do with a little more real estate. I can't talk about Android ones as the N9's was my third VK, first 5800's and second the iPhone 4's.

I'm pretty sure that if you have a phablet, it will be better just because you won't miss keys as they are so big.

Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 

True multi-tasking... why not? And it better have stellar stability & uptime too. But each app may take 24mb, but what about the compatibility layer itself? Only thing I can compare it to would be BlueStacks on OS X as an instance of where a compatibility layer running a host OS (Android in this case) is a real memory hog at times. Let's hope that's not the case for the Jolla ACL. That is my point really.

As an N9 owner, I can say that I just wonder if more RAM or more swap would have been advantageous. I can speculate - and probably be wrong as hell - but I have no true way of knowing.

I'm patient. So I'm just waiting to see how this ends.