Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Maemo, MeeGo, Tizen. All three of them were horrible choices for an OS name imho.

Sailfish, not a problem. A lot more fish out there than big cats, name-wise.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

MeeGo sounds childish.
And Tizen? Blurgh!

Maemo sounds pretty good. Its a combination of sounds that's not quite often made "May-moe".

The good thing about Maemo as well is that the start (Mae) makes people think about the word "me". So it could've been a good pun for Apps or accessories.

For instance;
Android = puns = AppDroid, Calendroid, etc etc
iOS = puns = iCloud, iMessages, iDiot, etc etc
Maemo = MaeNotes, MaeShop, MaePhone, MaeTab, etc etc

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

So has jolla taken the name from the boat or the fish?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Just found out that Tizen Conference is 22May I guess thats why Jolla will announce Sailfish 20May to take some attention from Samsung in the media? Lets hope Jolla success with that.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Carsten (stskeeps) when he 1st announced it in this very thread explained how they got to the name.

+1
Or maybe Tizen decided to solidify their date for then in order to reduce the wind in Sailfish's sails...

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Or it could also mean that people will forget about Sailfish OS after 2 days, and Tizen will be on the news everywhere

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

so it was from the boat. Why didn't you say so?

I don't think it was in this very thread ;)

I defiantly think that Tizen will will take the hardware throne quite easily but jolla might take the software throne.

We need working live streams this time!

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...57#post1275457
In fact search this entire thread for user stskeeps to refresh your mem. & you'll find some real nuggets that he's posted over time.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Thnk you. But how do you know he is building a boat and not a fish?

Plus, I take that Image as a joke and not a fact. Thx anyway.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Sailfish was a popular DIY sailing dinghy kit, Jolla is the Finnish word for dinghy (a small agile boat), hence the connection, they explained all this.
The beauty of the name is that it can also be taken to mean a Sailfish fish, hence the the aquatic theme continues, alongside MeR & Nemo.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

What's odd, I actually hope that both are successful in taking away attention from Android and iOS.

But Google IO is one week before them both, so that will invariably eclipse them both.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Its not odd. I hope so too. Tizen is as important as jolla.

Don't think I is a real attention stealer from tizen and jolla announcements since the don't really play the same game. In fact, might even get more readers to the articles about sailfish and tizen.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

If I'm a reporter or boss of one, and have to budget coverage for one or the other.. I'd rather go to the Google IO or Samsung events LONG before looking at Jolla. If somebody is trying to eclipse the other, and it turns out Jolla is trying to steal focus away, I would bet against them succeeding at all.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Sure, it's pretty obvious that mind-share for Tizen is higher than Nemo/Sailfish in mainstream media*, whether it's warranted or not.
That bubble can burst quite quickly though, depending on how the complete packages compare in the coming months...

From a technical & governance POV Sailfish has been more interesting for the longest time, but it ultimately comes down to how well it's all tied together.
Tizen had at least 4mth head start & has been backed by 2 massive organisations**, assuming both products are out at roughly the same time, I'd expect Tizen to be more polished OOTB.
Better offering overall is another matter entirely though, that won't become much clearer until both devices have been out for at least 1mth.

Longer-term if barely anyone else rolls out low to high end Tizen devices, then at least Samsung can keep churning them out.
Jolla doesn't have that luxury, they'll have to rely on more OEM partners stepping-up & joining the Sailfish Alliance....

*this is after all the project that managed to insert into mainstream lore that it's the successor to MeeGo
**although one of them has become increasingly passive for some time now

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

A tizen powered galaxy s3 would be enough to kick off nicely. Can't se how jolla could get something like that put toghter but let's hope I'm wrong.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

How open is tizen as a platform, is it possible and easy to install the standard gnu tools and utilities to it, or is it crippled the way android is?

For me tha most important thing is how the device behaves on the console level, the UI is not that important.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

It's wide open if you have the skills...

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

It's not actually, this has been explained in quite a bit of detail before, why just blatantly make things up.
At this point it's probably worse than Android*, it's certainly not "wide open"...

*even Sailfish (not Nemo) is for now, until we hear the full story

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Oh, sorry. It's completely closed!

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

I think maybe you missed the thread of the conversation I was addressing: If Jolla has the idea to try to steal attention away from Samsung or Google I/O, I sincerely doubt they will succeed. To that end, it might even make them look bad because 1) it's obvious that they're trying to steal attention and 2) if fewer people turn up at their event or even pay attention to their announcement, they will have ruined their opportunity to capture a larger crowd when they HAVE some availability instead of making them choose one over the other event.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Someone just expressed that they "hope" they're able to do that... I srsly doubt Jolla thinks they'll steal attention in any impactful way via the placement of a conference. There's much more to it than that, & it'll be a long/hard slog. These "big reveals" are only a (potentially) important "jump start" to all of that. I've seen no evidence that they deliberately timed their event to be just after I/O & just before Tizen. If anything, it'd make more sense for the bigger players to do that...

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

So when do the expert, DanRamos, that Jolla should launch its device to get the best possible attention? :cool:

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Looking at the sources of SilicaComponents it seems atleast BSD license atm...

Don't know about mcompositor, lipstick and meegotouchtheme libs if its same as nemo?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Not trying to pick apart your statement; but for a "crippled" OS, Android has a lot more stuff going for it - app-wise, development-wise and otherwise. Tizen is very open - SDK and source code are released and housed by the Linux Foundation. That's much more than MeeGo or Maemo offered.

The openness of Tizen on the licensing side though [ read more here ] is sorta up in the air - I'm personally impressed that I can use C++, Java, Adobe AIR, HTML5/jQuery and with a myriad of tools. Same for Android to be honest. Same for BlackBerry10 as well.

The UI is always important. Especially in a touch device. If you wanted just a terminal on a phone device, I'd suggest that you research how much of a minority you are in regards to marketing and buying power.

User interface and user experience can make or break an entire platform.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

It's highly unlikely they'd do what Nokia and HTC has done to Apple and Samsung respectively by crashing their events and trying to schedule their events so close to their respective target.

Simply stated, that kind of **** doesn't work any longer.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

I'm not Mr. Dan Ramos; nor an expert. But Jolla needs to release their wares when it's done and they have a proper distribution channel set up.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Most Android devices can be opened AFAIK but there is no single supported way to do it, the process of rooting a device is more a hack in practice. This is why I consider Android a crippled platform.
And even when rooted, it's not your standard linux distribution, where you are used to get just about anything in there by installing a deb or a rpm package...

Until I see something concrete here, I will not hold my breath on the openness of Tizen. In the article you linked, Rasterman mentions that Tizen may be locked down due to company policy. If that does not happen, I am happy though.

As for Blackberry, that device is not linux, it's irrelevant to me.

Nah, you're just wrong. Fluid user interface is nice to look at and operate, but that's just surface. What's important is that you have easy access to the real workings of the device, that you get things like access to the databases and call control from the command line using DBUS messages for example.
Why I consider it important; it makes prototyping so easy, you don't have to spend time in irrelevant details but rather can experiment with the things that come up to your mind using scripting languages and standard text-processing tools.

Maemo and Harmattan are far from fully open but they do get few things right; easy access to real command line, SW installation with real package management, ability to build and run your own kernel, documented interfaces to many internal interfaces.

As far as I have gathered information on Sailfish, opennes there is at least par with Maemo/Harmattan, propably more so. Even as I live and breathe Debian, I am ready to go RPM way if that's the price I need to pay.

I admit I might be in a minority but that does not mean my views are not relevant. For me the device openness is the most important thing. I have stated this before; it's not important to have the fastest core, not rhe flashiest GPU. Just fast enough is good enough, I value more long battery life and solidly built HW.
My dream device would have all GNU SW, all GNU FW and all GNU HW.

Well WP8 has an user experience. Do you consider it a success?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

That's not open, as in open source. That's open, as in open for use. And the fact that you have to unlock, root and possibly flash a custom ROM is not what people mean by open source.

I agree with Android being a "crippled" platform in the sense of open source. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the OS, licensing, et al. And again; for a crippled platform, a lot more was done on it than the more open offerings.

And what exactly is a standard Linux distro for a mobile phone that's getting active support that you can buy today that actually is worth a damn. Please list them out.

That's why I said up in the air. But at this very moment, I can download the open source of Android (AOSP) and Tizen and both of them are actively supported or will be supported.

Can't say the same for Maemo unfortunately. The support that this forum gives it is incredible - same for MeeGo - but it's not vendor or widespread support. So I can't count on it.

Why switch the subject? In no comment above was Linux mentioned until now. And now it's important? I'll play along...

QNX microkernel is POSIX based. That's more than enough for me. And it has current support and it's shown to be more extensible than most mobile Linux based offerings to date. Tizen, Sailfish will invariably change this statement though. MeeGo, Maemo... they're dead.

I'm wrong how? Your statements assume that you, the non-UI loving community actually amount up to people that want to type a command in order to make a phone call. Ain't nobody got time for that!

You are a minority. One that's never been catered to because nothing will make you happy. Ever. And you're such a small niche that you can't really state that you've been happy with any Linux Mobile to date that's still in production. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me - and I'll state it here, I could be VERY WRONG.

But as it stands, Harmattan was a great UI. And I had access to a real terminal.

That's important to you and a very select few. Again, I can't stress upon to you that you are a very minor market. Linux Desktop is minor market - 1.21%. Linux mobile is even smaller (barring Android making the cut, which is doesn't). And you're talking about DBUS and commands... on a mobile device that makes phone calls? That an even smaller market that wants that - or even knows why they would want that.

They did so much right. But they're both so very dead. Unfortunately it seems like marketing, poor distribution and being tied to Nokia just didn't help them both in the long-run.

Look to Mer. That's all you need to gather more information. And you'll walk away impressed, based on the prior correspondence of what you want from a device.

Never thought that, to be honest. Just stating a fact that you're definitely a minority that just isn't catered to - unfairly so I might add.

Not at all. User experience can be good or bad. WP8's UI is pretty damn bad and boring to me... Harmattan still wins mobile UX in my opinion. Maemo 5 is a close second.

UX can make or break a platform. That will stand. The rest what you're talking about is access. And we agree there - I want access to that **** too. But not at the expense of the UX of when I'm not in the terminal. I like to do a lot of things at once, simple things. And I don't like to remember commands in order to make a phone call to my wife.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

This hasn't been my understanding...
Mine is that it's not as free flowing in reality as you're suggesting.
I don't suppose you can put your hand on links that validate this?
Ideally commentary from key devs involved, not just links to infra.
And governance/licensing are just as important in overall openness as code dumps.

That's not true, unless by "MeeGo" you're referring to Harmattan.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Not sure what your point is. As far as it goes, there's not one mobile OS that's been fully open. Maemo, MeeGo, nor Tizen or Android.

Not a one. But the fact that people will argue incessantly about which is more open; doesn't matter in the end. Access to the SDK's, open source and it's hosted by Linux Foundation is pretty open. More than the aforesaid.

Edit: It seems like Tizen works with the Linux Foundation, not hosted by the Linux Foundation.

Harmattan UI was closed. A lot of the stuff that Nokia had to do to make it work as a phone was closed - battery, GPS drivers, phone stack and a few others. Maemo 5, to be so "open" was rather closed as well.

The things that people champion as open, they're not. Not at all.

And it didn't seem to lengthen the lifespan of those projects.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Discussion about openness is hilarious, all people mean different thins :D the discussion should have ended with my two statements. Wide open and totally closed.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

In the end, openness has not fully proven itself to be as big of an advantage on my mobile device as it has been for my server and desktop.

It'll get there one day very soon where it will be an advantage. But a lot of very small things need to happen.

But companies like Ubuntu/Mark Shuttleworth make it harder for those things to happen when they take advantage of opensource development and don't contribute back until much later down the road after they've profited from it.

Just my opinion there too, btw. The rest is an argument about which sector do you belong in. It's funny though in the end how there's really no true opensource distros based off of truly opensource and/or hobbyist operating systems on my device that's more powerful as the computer(s) that went to the Moon.

Seriously. I use Haiku, Debian, Ubuntu, PC-BSD on my computer alongside OS X and Windows - all via VM's. But no VM on my cellphone. Or a hobbyist OS.

Nothing that's not a custom Android ROM. I can't install MeeGo on anything. Or no Maemo on anything. The year of mobile Linux can't come fast enough. Perhaps I'll have more of a choice of what/how I install on an open enough piece of hardware that isn't dictated by a company I don't trust but a community I don't mind participating in.

To me, that's my real dream. Not an argument over who/what is more open.

That's just a distraction because none of it truly matters because not a one of them are truly open. And none of their OS's are truly portable - meaning I can't install wherever I wish.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Anyone knows if jolla planning to broadcast a live stream form the announcement?

would also be cool if someone willing to ask this question to jolla via facebook or twitter?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

AFAIK webos is most open?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Lol. Define open

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

LOL. What does it matter?

No seriously. Why even ****ing care?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

It doesn't. It's just that all people have their own view of open, openness.

Hey, what device is the best?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

Then why ask?

The one that works for you best.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

A definition makes it easier to answer the question about what is most open.

But your answer can be :The one that is most open for you.

And with an answer like that, the definition is irrelevant.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 

I dare you to make less sense.