maemo.org - Talk - JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- Off Topic (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19)

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1342929)

Most Android devices can be opened AFAIK but there is no single supported way to do it, the process of rooting a device is more a hack in practice. This is why I consider Android a crippled platform.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

That's not open, as in open source. That's open, as in open for use. And the fact that you have to unlock, root and possibly flash a custom ROM is not what people mean by open source.

Well this is what I said; android base SW itself might be open source but you cannot use it as an open source platform without first breaking it. That's not open on by my definitions.
Now I realise this is because the companies using Android on their devices want to make it really hard for people to customize the device for their needs. What I'd like to see is open source device drivers for all HW of the device, for starters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

I agree with Android being a "crippled" platform in the sense of open source. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the OS, licensing, et al. And again; for a crippled platform, a lot more was done on it than the more open offerings.

I'm sorry I lost you there, what sorts of things do you mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1342929)

And even when rooted, it's not your standard linux distribution, where you are used to get just about anything in there by installing a deb or a rpm package...

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

And what exactly is a standard Linux distro for a mobile phone that's getting active support that you can buy today that actually is worth a damn. Please list them out.

There isn't one, AFAIK. I'd like that to change, and I'd like to see for example the Jolla device to be something like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

Can't say the same for Maemo unfortunately. The support that this forum gives it is incredible - same for MeeGo - but it's not vendor or widespread support. So I can't count on it.

Maemo/Harmattan was killed by Nokia because of bad political decisions. For that reason there's obviously no continuation, when the existing devices wear out, they cannot be replaced by anything. What I'd like to belive is that if the open source trend on nokia had continued then the company would have done better financially too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1342929)

As for Blackberry, that device is not linux, it's irrelevant to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

Why switch the subject? In no comment above was Linux mentioned until now. And now it's important? I'll play along...

Actually it was you that brought up the subject of Blackberry, I just stated it's irrelevant for me.
You said; "I'm personally impressed that I can use C++, Java, Adobe AIR, HTML5/jQuery and with a myriad of tools. Same for Android to be honest. Same for BlackBerry10 as well."

I am sorry I feel that way, but it's true, I have no experience on QNX, I have never looked into the sources nor built QNX kernel for any device, it is irrelevant to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

QNX microkernel is POSIX based. That's more than enough for me. And it has current support and it's shown to be more extensible than most mobile Linux based offerings to date. Tizen, Sailfish will invariably change this statement though. MeeGo, Maemo... they're dead.

Partly true. There is no continuation with Maemo or Harmattan, but Mer is still relevant, Sailfish is cousin to Maemo&Harmattan via the MeeGo inheritance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1342929)

Nah, you're just wrong. Fluid user interface is nice to look at and operate, but that's just surface.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

I'm wrong how? Your statements assume that you, the non-UI loving community actually amount up to people that want to type a command in order to make a phone call. Ain't nobody got time for that!

I did not say that console UI is the only thing needed, what I said is that it is just surface. I said it's not relevant that it's fluid and candy beautiful. I realise that lots of people think that, that there are lots of people trying to tune the existing interfaces more "fluid and nice", all kinds of "Project Butters" to make graphical UI "smooth" whatever that means :)
Of course you need a phone UI to call somebody, of course you need an email frontend to send your mail, I am not expecting you to type SMTP commands at a telnet prompt to do that :D

What I am after here, is that it should be possible to get to the device internal workings easily, that is should be possible to easily replace and change any of those functionlaities at will. And belive or not, the easiest way is to have full unix-like command line with all the thousands of tools written for unix for the last four decades.
If there exists a better alternative I would like to know about it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

You are a minority. One that's never been catered to because nothing will make you happy. Ever. And you're such a small niche that you can't really state that you've been happy with any Linux Mobile to date that's still in production. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me - and I'll state it here, I could be VERY WRONG.

Well you have it right on the first assumption, about being minority. But the second assumption is wrong, actually I am very happy with my N9, I am only unhappy about the way Nokia has taken regarding it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

But as it stands, Harmattan was a great UI. And I had access to a real terminal.

I agree with you here. And to get back on the original topic of this thread, I do belive I will be as happy with my new Jolla device later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

That's important to you and a very select few. Again, I can't stress upon to you that you are a very minor market. Linux Desktop is minor market - 1.21%. Linux mobile is even smaller (barring Android making the cut, which is doesn't). And you're talking about DBUS and commands... on a mobile device that makes phone calls? That an even smaller market that wants that - or even knows why they would want that.

I might be so hick in the woods I cannot see the real world, but where I live and work Linux Desktop is the norm. Yes there are also people who have Macs and WinXP/Win7 here but fortunately we can choose what to use, and people do choose the systems based on their needs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1342929)

Maemo and Harmattan are far from fully open but they do get few things right; easy access to real command line, SW installation with real package management, ability to build and run your own kernel, documented interfaces to many internal interfaces.

As far as I have gathered information on Sailfish, opennes there is at least par with Maemo/Harmattan, propably more so. Even as I live and breathe Debian, I am ready to go RPM way if that's the price I need to pay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

They did so much right. But they're both so very dead. Unfortunately it seems like marketing, poor distribution and being tied to Nokia just didn't help them both in the long-run.

Look to Mer. That's all you need to gather more information. And you'll walk away impressed, based on the prior correspondence of what you want from a device.

Yes, Mer is currently the best iteration of open source platform available. And that is why I am waiting to see how Sailfish builds on Mer, and will it offer everything I need.
Through Jolla and Sailfish I am waiting to see a successor to the Maemo/Harmattan usability, with a hope that it will live on and not be cornered like Nokia did with its own line of open devices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1342929)

Well WP8 has an user experience. Do you consider it a success?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1342944)

Not at all. User experience can be good or bad. WP8's UI is pretty damn bad and boring to me... Harmattan still wins mobile UX in my opinion. Maemo 5 is a close second.

UX can make or break a platform. That will stand. The rest what you're talking about is access. And we agree there - I want access to that **** too. But not at the expense of the UX of when I'm not in the terminal. I like to do a lot of things at once, simple things. And I don't like to remember commands in order to make a phone call to my wife.

The worst problem with WP8 is not the UI, really. It's the whole concept where you cannot DO anything with the device. I mean, think about if you had the Metro UI on a Maemo device, but underneath it was Linux core, and all the interfaces were open. You could replace the UI if you wanted, with something you liked more, or customize it to look to your liking, if you find it boring.

The problem with WP and iOS is the fact you cannot do anything to it, this is why closed systems are evil. As long as you want to do what the stevejobsies and billgateses of the world think you need to do your freedom and liberty is taken away from you :mad:

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

juiceme, allow me to say that I thoroughly enjoy this discussion despite coming from differing angles/perspectives and it's maintained a very casual and informative demeanor.

Thank you for that.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

+1

I was going to respond to your response to me earlier, but there was really nothing to address, as we're basically coming from the same position, + time is a rather precious commodity to me lately.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Plus one!

The off topic thread is by far the best when it come to area of jolla. It's free and without slow posts.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

I am the other half

High Expectations...

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

video does not exist... :(

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1343284)

video does not exist... :(

porn is not allowed on utube.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1343285)

porn is not allowed on utube.

Phone sex?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Edited...:-)
might have already posted...

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by praveenchand (Post 1343290)

Edited...:-)
might have already posted...

your edit beat tissot... just :)
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=1177

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1343297)

your edit beat tissot... just :)
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=1177

Told you before, off topic threads are always first with the news.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1343298)

Told you before, off topic threads are always first with the news.

Ya...agree... :-)

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1343298)

Told you before, off topic threads are always first with the news.

"News" & substantive analysis/discussion are two very different things. There's a place for both.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1343327)

"News" & substantive analysis/discussion are two very different things. There's a place for both.

Substantive analysis and discussion can't be held without "News" and "facts" so to me it's too many jolla threads. But I play along...

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Substantive analysis and discussion can't be held without "News" and "facts" so to me it's too many jolla threads. But I play along...

There's been more than enough info. to chew over if folks are so inclined, the thread dedicated to that is a testament to that, not in recent mths, but there's been plenty happening in the right channels for folks to digest further in that thread. There's other more light-hearted threads like this, that often ramble right off track, or discuss nothing of substance, like this pointless discussion, a separation doesn't hurt, down to 2 might be better than 3, but ultimately it's no big deal.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

We need a jolla shipping thread ASAP, anyone?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Dave i wanna create that one:)
hit a pm to help make a smart one:)
inbox waiting....

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Dave i wanna create that one:)
hit a pm to help make a smart one:)
inbox waiting....

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1343851)

We need a jolla shipping thread ASAP, anyone?

You said there's too many, but now you want to create another... >.>
Can we resume posting stuff that's at least partially substantive, please.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1343961)

You said there's too many, but now you want to create another... >.>
Can we resume posting stuff that's at least partially substantive, please.

We can't have enough new threads. What was I said before I would like to have one thread merge of all the current jolla speculation thread. Now we will have more info and time to great a new thread based on the facts we now know. It Dosent matter if a thread is 500 posts or 5000 posts by one one reads the whole thread. Just merge and create new threads.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by nokiabot (Post 1343958)

Dave i wanna create that one:)
hit a pm to help make a smart one:)
inbox waiting....

Sorry, I won't do that. Feel free to make your own choices in life and in TMO.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1343969)

???? :confused: It's just simpler to have one "water cooler" thread, & one that's for more substantive corralling/analysis of new info.
ATM we're close enough to that, although the water cooler thread(s) could possibly be named a bit more clearly...
Even just the one water cooler thread is fine for now, until heaps of factual info arrives, then a more focused/targeted thread can be useful too (as past experience has shown).

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

All threads are just speculations even the most well thought out discussion. You might value part of the threads as important becouse they have long and well written posts, but they truth is that the don't give any real answers. But hey its get with lots of threads. Everyone can find one that suits them.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Both n900 and n9, or atlest n9 was really really bad when it comes to video. Too many formats without support. I know other OS sometimes auto formating the file, Its not the best solution, but its better then not playing at all.

Will jolla be as bad as nokia or even worse or have you seen or read anything about it?

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1344072)

Unfortunate for you that you still don't get it, but, lets let it rest...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1344101)

picture

Please don't post fake stuff like that, you almost gave me a coronary! :D

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1344089)

What formats/containers are you interested in? I've never had problems playing videos on my N9, although I admit that I don't play much as I'd much rather my living room or my laptop connected to a bigger screen.

Now, if you had said that you wanted an HDMI output and more formats and Dolby/DTS etc etc, then I'm with you :-) _but_ I don't think there's any phone out there that allows you to do any of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggabriel (Post 1344252)

Now, if you had said that you wanted an HDMI output and more formats and Dolby/DTS etc etc, then I'm with you :-) _but_ I don't think there's any phone out there that allows you to do any of that.

808 can handle those.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artyom (Post 1344259)

808 can handle those.

You're correct - I believe the E7 also has an HDMI output, never tried it though.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggabriel (Post 1344252)

Don't really Remember, left the n9 as media player long ago since lots of stuff didn't work unless manually format. Lately I'm using auditions in the Wmv without success :(

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Why do anyone need a jolla phone?

I still not sure anyone actually do that

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

You seem to have made up your mind already, so why not just get a Android/Tizen phone?
If you still don't know why a Sailfish ph may be interesting/appealing, then you really should've made the jump to elsewhere ages ago.*

*N.B. most here already use Android quite heavily

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1344806)

I know why its interesting/appealing, but I doubt jolla can deliver it. We will see tomorrow.
I'm 97% sure I will buy Note lll but also maybe jolla or tizen device. It's possible that I'm not buying Tizen device instead. It's to early to tell...

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

So given that we know it won't stand out hw-wise*, what's your understanding of why it may be interesting/appealing?

*except for (hopefully) 1 or more unique, innovative, or competitive hw features

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1344812)

So given that we know it won't stand out hw-wise*, what's your understanding of why it may be interesting/appealing?

*except for (hopefully) 1 or more unique, innovative, or competitive hw features

That was what I thought about and asked about.

As I see it it's only one (since I don't know what jolla is planning) :

1.More alternatives are better for customers.

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

I'm actually wondering how easy it will be to get a Jolla device at all, unless you're in Finland :-)

Haven't they said that they need 100k devices sold to be successful? Those aren't many devices if you think about Finland+China, and I don't think they'll risk manufacturing 1M either.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow though, my N9 is still going and I wouldn't mind getting a Jolla device late or a second one that they launch (speculating...).

Also, you never know, maybe a second device will be shaped like a discus ;-)

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1344813)

That was what I thought about and asked about.
As I see it it's only one (since I don't know what jolla is planning) :
1.More alternatives are better for customers.

http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6991b9f4.jpg

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Trolls everywhere in TMO...

Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1344818)

http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6991b9f4.jpg

Why was I awarded a gorilla facepalm?