Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Meanwhile on twitter

Chen making nice Photos in Seville
https://twitter.com/chenliangchen/st...76121076719616

Me testing the pro1 cam out on a bike ride with the family
https://twitter.com/eLtMosen/status/1198262070300626945

Edit, haha, chen posted himself.

Edit2 and a similar close photo to the pcb i took yesterday under florescent light

https://mosushi.de/misc/photocomp/20191120_151453.jpg

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

It is only acceptable if you participate this month Bicycle camera competition ;)

Edit: If those pictures and also what Mosen introduced are so called dogshit... Maybe I'll get a dog...

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Sorry, not in the Pro1-set club :p:( but still:
What can be done with a d**s*** camera:
Macro N900 camera mod, q&d

@ Chenliangchen: Is such a accessory for the Fx planed ;) (after you + team have taken some breath+rest )

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

These photos are pretty good, thank you for sharing them.

As of the photo of the PCB, it was definitively low light and it is not easy to take good photos of it indoors and low light and also internal LED "flash" is usually not a good solution for that. With outdoor and appropriate light it can be much better.

This is another photo taken by Motorola G6 indoor (cropped), but this is not the first photo taken:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...26e3e51b_k.jpg

It is also not sharp anyway, but maybe internal light of the room is better.

So, better light would had been necessary for better photo, but I hope focus will be better than of my G6.

Altogether, photos of Pro1 are much better than what I have expected.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

I could not do in detail comparison to modern phone cameras but a quick look on my own upgrade from XA2 cam was possible during a short walk.
And yes, the pagodilia is well and screams only in certain viewing angles ;)

Sample with sun in front shot with XA2 Sailfish cam
https://mosushi.de/misc/photocomp/pr...120_152926.jpg

same with Pro1
https://mosushi.de/misc/photocomp/pr...120_152851.jpg

Sun in back shot with XA2 SFOS
https://mosushi.de/misc/photocomp/pr...120_153243.jpg

same with Pro1 stock cam
https://mosushi.de/misc/photocomp/pr...120_153212.jpg

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

is there some HDR mode by default on pro1 or what? I really don't like what it does with colors and contrast.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

I have pre-order Fxtec Pro.
[Order #13408] (April 23, 2019)
I haven't received even tracking number yet.
:Whine: When will it arrive?
Thank you. Best wishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...
P.S. Of course, I would want to boot Maemo Leste on it :-)

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

I don't understand why you are hitting on the guy just cause he said his opinion. He didn't bash before getting the device, he didn't ask for a refund, he didn't even blame anyone.
Anyway, you saw the photo quality. If you like it and it's enough for you, go for it.
The rest can have their own opinion.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Then I believe it is worth opening a new issue, and maybe the maintainers will help you troubleshooting or providing additionnal information.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Just because the macrophoto performance is not impressive does not mean the camera is bad, or similar to that of an older phone. A lot of the impression depends on the minimal focus distance, which is by no means a characteristic that evolved in one direction or the other over the last ten years. And as said earlier, good lighting is crucial to compare performance, unless the aim is to test low-light performance specifically, but that would require controlling all other parameters.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

If my comments were taken as an assault, I apologize!
That was never my intention. Especially because I can understand @Wasmachinemann-NL very good: If you would ask ME what is the better car, comparing an old air cooled Porsche 911 with a modern 911. I would without any hesitation choose the old air cooled one.
Just because this car has hart and soul. Driving it brings you a lot more adrenaline than driving a 2019 model. Because it's harder to drive, it's just you and the car. No electronic helpers.
BUT anyway, being objective: The faster and better sportscar is the new one. Even so I don't like it and I would at any time prefer the old
one.
:o

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Because he placed the blame on the device, when the blame was on everything else. Low-light produces terrible pictures, except if you have extremely high end cameras. Any phone camera just not have the sensor size to work great in low-light, and will produce bad grainy pictures in such a situation. I don't see how uneducated and wrong claims are any better than asking for a refund or any other things that have been decreed as "terrible" on here.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

You definitely don't have to apologize to anyone and I wasn't mentioning you, just the general negativity washmachine man received for saying his opinion!


Yes, you can't compare with a good dslr with a huge lens at night. But you can compare phone cameras with other phone cameras.
Did you have a note 10 / iPhone 11 / pixel 4 / OP7P / P30P and checked the quality at night? You will be amazed my friend.
And I'm just mentioning the above because they are older and at the same price point (give or take).
Anyway, my point was always that this phone is all about hwkb, other OS'es and not camera performance etc. Knowing that, i will not judge anything else other than build quality, software optimization and hwkb implementation. But that doesn't mean that camera or something else is on par with every other phone, just because there are better dedicated cameras out there!

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

And I'm saying that in the same conditions the picture quality of those phones would probably be similar, namely bad. Sure there are probably good shots from those phones at night, but they'd be taken with different conditions like a more steady base or not extremely close to something, etc.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Thank you.
I think it is not bad at all.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Do please quit try making sharp pictures of a PCB. Or indeed any macro with any camera whatsoever.
Physics won't allow ...

The trick is using focus stacking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_stacking

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Yes - all phones have a relatively small sensor, but most importantly, a really small len or lens.

These sensors have their own sensitivity and this sensitivity (I mean gain) can be adjusted a bit - the higher the gain, the higher the noise is - and other than the sensor, the amount of light coming to sensor is what matters.

As all of these phones have relatively small camera holes, the amount of light is very limited. On professional cameras, there is a large objective (lens system) which collects a large amount of light into the sensor.
Then it is much easier to play with aperture and exposure times and the gain of the sensor.
Thus, depth of field can be also adjusted to make desired images.

So a phone's camera has limited possibilities to work with. It doesn't mean it is unable to make photos in darker environment, I think Pro1 has similar abilities like other phones.

Also, there are applications where some parameters can be given to make some special photos also with a phones.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

That is an interesting technique, but I was not speaking about having sharp images in different depths but the ability to properly set the focus.

My Moto G6 can not do this well but I saw phones which can. I currently don't know how good Pro1 in it, but it seems it can also take reasonably good photos of that subject.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

I'm sorry but I disagree.
The gap between them and the pro1 is literally day and night to my eyes.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

I am disagree.

However, we may see it once Pro1 has arrived.

Anyway, phone cameras are usually relatively bad. They are definitively improving and there are phones with very good camera, but they are rare.

Also, I have a digital camera back from 2003, it has around 3.5 megapixels of resolution and it is still better than a usual phone despite the lower resolution as it has good and large lens and build quality.

If I look at a usual phone's photo, I see the high resolution but low detail, which is not really good...

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

I didn't say the Pro1's camera's on par, I'm saying that the other phones would be as bad in such poor conditions. And that basing any judgement on a picture from those conditions is stupid.
I don't really know how the Pro1's camera compares to other phones in photos made in proper conditions, all I know is that it's good enough for me.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Phone cameras are focusing mostly in low light photography the last 3-4 years or so.
Let's say that we focus on the S series from s7 to s10.
Ofcourse the evolution is amazing in every way, but if you compare low light photography specifically, the difference is just huge.
That's because there is no excuse anymore for crappy quality in low light, when everyone is asking at least 750 euros for a flagship.
Anyway, we are getting way off the subject.
The pro1's camera is good enough for you, and probably for the most people here that usually use outdated devices. That's all that matters in my book.
As long as it "checks" all the rest in your (or anyone's) list, who cares?
Does that make it a decent (2020 flagship) camera phone? No.
Does that matter to almost any buyer from this target group? No.


That depends.
What "usual phone" is to you? Are you comparing it with a XA2 for example or with a pixel 3?
Because you can say that both are "relatively" modern and both have 1 main camera, but the difference between them is immeasurable.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Not comparing but experiencing of what I saw of some people around me.
...and as I said, "they are definitively improving" - but still not comparable with a good dedicated camera of similar resolution.

Also there are several phones which do some post processing - the image looks like if it were applied some blur then sharpening effect. It is suitable for eliminating some noise but it is definitively results in loosing details while I have not seen the same effect on dedicated cameras.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Made a short video of a 1 minute typing test because Jan asked on twitter.
The website i found most suitable for the test is typing-speed.net if you want to compare with your laptop :D
They do not throw special characters at you tho, just a casual lowercase parcours.
Screen brightness is set to low so the puny sailfish camera can pick up the kbd better.
I guess most of you will type faster than me, but here is what i got:

https://twitter.com/eLtMosen/status/1198618481186496512

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Fast thumbs have You...

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

I suspect this is an issue with SFOS itself; I have the same issue with the Xperia X.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

It's all done with postprocessing, my friend. :D

Everything those devices achieve is just smoke and mirrors; the sensors and optics are just as pitiful in all mobile devices, the final results are all achieved with heavy correction.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

A bit more "fun facts" about modern cameraphones;

The topline devices use multiple cameras and esoteric things like sensor bias sweep to get most out of the poor sensor chips. I have not checked it but I kind of suspect you won't even get a real raw photo out of those; how could you when the image is composed on-the-fly out from data gathered over multiple sensors with a time integral (meaning, a single "shot" is always a processed composite of short sequences)

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Exactly. That's what you are paying for today, software.
If someone wants raw specs and 0 software optimization (that ultimately leads to horrible user experience), can buy top of the line specs with a 250€ Chinese smartphone.
I don't understand why software optimization (post-processing in this case) is considered bad or something. It's actually amazing.
The pixel 2 and 3 had such amazing results with mediocre hardware and superb software optimization.
Even the last layer of the camera, the apk itself has a ton of optimization and that's why millions of people try to install a port of the Google camera.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Photos on the better phones are quite impressive using multiple images and sophisticated processing. I think the idea of a raw image loses some meaning on these devices as the software takes advantage of AI, complicated algorithms and so forth to make the best of the hardware however lacking. On the other hand, having a phone/camera that produces the best raw image is a good thing even if it doesn't produce the prettiest picture. Nice to be closer to the truth unless you prefer fake news!

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

DId a small Update on F(x)tec forum:

• The problem, with Jolla store has vanished over night (without reboot). All apps show up now.
• Battery life is definitely worse than with android at the moment, but I think, if you don't use it to extensively, it will bring you through the day.
• Still can't get mobile data to work. No matter if I enter access data manually or if I leave it to the automatic (anyway the same data).
• The funny behavior of the brightness slider is just there, when the device boots up without the sensors. Which happens not that often as I feared at the beginning

Minor problems I have not reported yet:

• I can't access the device via ssh over usb. Over Wifi it works fine.
• You can't set ISO manually on the camera app. Pictures are good enough, have look at talk.maemo.org

Daily driver? No way at the moment. FOR ME the show stoppers are:

• No mobile data
• no GPS
• Wrong mapping of the keyboard
• Complete crashing, when inserting earplugs

If these problems are solved I will give it immediately a try. Sailfish feels too sexy on that device.🥰

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

The problem here is with the conditions. Just look at this piece that should be a plain white, but instead has all these different colours. That's the sensor trying to cope with the lack of light by just amplifying what it's getting, but getting it wrong. Any phone would have issues in these conditions. Yes they might be improving on that specifically, and yes people might say such poor performance is inexcusable, but it's still there.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

I don't disagree with anything from the above, but as a consumer I will judge the final result.
I don't think that anyone cares if the device (or any device) has the "X" sensor etc. All that matters is the final result that will come from hardware + software working together.
For example. Does the note 10+ have the best overall cameras now? Without a doubt. Does iphone 11 pro beat the note 10+ with more realistic colors and seemless transition on all 3 lenses? Ofcourse!
I am mentioning the above because samsung already does an amazing job camera-wise, but even if you have inferior hardware, you can still surpass it with well written software!

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Funny you say that, because that picture I posted was a crop from a Galaxy S10 photo.

https://forum.xda-developers.com/sho...4&postcount=99

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

What photo have you cut this image from?
(I have searched the last couple of pages and I did not find it /the cutout is a small part anyway/.)

What I would like to say is I prefer to see these noises instead of plain white if that means no loss in details.

I mean I saw several photos of Android phones where a relatively high resolution sensor produces high resolution but relatively low detail photos (something like if the photo had a blur then a sharpening effect) and I really, really don't like it.

I mean if Fxtec will do similar "ironing" of the photos then I hope they will allow the user to switch it on or off because these methods can cause loss of details in photo.
...and yes, manufacturers do some "ironing" effect, but photos will not really improving by this just they look to be improved (details are missing and are unable to recover)...

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Without knowing how the light conditions really were, when the photo was taken, it's impossible to judge picture quality just from looking at it! My DSLR is for sure quite good in low light conditions. Anyway I can post you pics which look really horrible. But you can be sure that it was than really dark...

Mosen made a nice comparison. Her you can draw your conclusions. But posting just some pictures of one camera doesn't say anything.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

Of course a DSLR has a huge optics compared to any phones and also the price range is starting at the price of a phone. :)

...and also a DSLR usually produces pretty good photos but only if the photographer knows how to use it. If not, the photos may be only a bit better than a photo of a good phone camera.

I remember few weeks ago I saw a photo what a journalist took about one of our products at an exhibition. My colleague also took a photo of the same thing which was better than the other... then I looked at exif info of the journalist's photo and astonished how was able to take such poor photo with that machine...

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

making bad photos is easy :D

What I wanted to point out is, that on a photo you can't really judge how dark or bright it really was, when the pic was taken.

Re: Are you Ready? F(x)tec Pro 1 HW Keyboard Phone
 

And what's wrong with that?
I saw the original pics and this is a x5 crop or something.
Also the post is from the same week the phone was released. If you want some photos after about 8 camera improving updates, i can show you when I meet my nephew.