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-   -   Jolla Tablet Refunds (latest developments) (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94393)

Dave999 2015-12-18 07:42
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpog (Post 1491958)
Seems my Jolla tablet could become a very rare piece of HW :D
So happy that I got one.
Thank you! Post 3000 is mine.

I'm happy for you.

nieldk 2015-12-18 07:45
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpog (Post 1491958)
Seems my Jolla tablet could become a very rare piece of HW :D
So happy that I got one.
Naw, they are being sold cheap in China

JoOppen 2015-12-18 08:33
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Congratulations, thread! 3000 entries now!
Stay funny (and a least a bit optimistic)!

zenecho 2015-12-18 09:25
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1491933)
anttisaarnio>
What if Jolla offered you a Intex phone instead of tablet. would you bite?
No, I already have a Jolla phone

switch-hitter 2015-12-18 09:46
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1491933)
What if Jolla offered you a Intex phone instead of tablet. would you bite?
Yes, at least it's something to mitigate the loss.

Dave999 2015-12-18 10:49
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
I fear that the blog post might be delayed?

billranton 2015-12-18 11:10
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
So I hope this means everyone gets their jobs back and paid their owed salaries. From his words in the meeting, I think the financing might be reduced, and specifically not allowed to be spent on the tablet - SailfishOS dev and adaptation only. I think the IGG backers may have to wait a while yet.

Dave999 2015-12-18 11:17
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1491970)
So I hope this means everyone gets their jobs back and paid their owed salaries. From his words in the meeting, I think the financing might be reduced, and specifically not allowed to be spent on the tablet - SailfishOS dev and adaptation only. I think the IGG backers may have to wait a while yet.
Not spent on the tablet? That has not stopped Jolla in the past :D That is unacceptable and Jolla needs to find a way to defuse this mine.

No solution to tablet == no future for sailfish

Jedibeeftrix 2015-12-18 11:20
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscion (Post 1491917)
Exactly!

Please allow me to phrase it another way.

Nobody here bought the damm tablet for its specs!
i did buy it for its format.

8" 4:3 aspect ratio with 2048x1536 res is the perfect size for a tablet IMHO.

anything smaller and i might as well have a 5" 16:9 device for one hand use, anything bigger and i'll use my 13.3" 16:9 Samsung Series 9 laptop with a full desktop UI.

Dave999 2015-12-18 11:23
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibeeftrix (Post 1491972)
i did buy it for its format.

8" 4:3 aspect ratio with 2048x1536 res is the perfect size for a tablet IMHO.

anything smaller and i might as well have a 5" 16:9 device for one hand use, anything bigger and i'll use my 13.3" 16:9 Samsung Series 9 laptop with a full desktop UI.
4:3 rules! The first note used that way back and that still rules. Now day's most things don't use it anymore :(

4:3 rocks for browsing!

zenecho 2015-12-18 11:44
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1491960)
Naw, they are being sold cheap in China

Hang on, surely Jolla, went through a lot of trouble and delay updating the Screen to a "better "model . You cant possible mean that you can just "buy" an aigoX86 off the shelf with the updated screen. This would mean that Jolla did no actual work and just brought a different model to relabel ?

zenecho 2015-12-18 11:45
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1491969)
I fear that the blog post might be delayed?
Its coming "soon" :)

Dave999 2015-12-18 11:48
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenecho (Post 1491976)
Hang on, surely Jolla, went through a lot of trouble and delay updating the Screen to a "better "model . You cant possible mean that you can just "buy" an aigoX86 off the shelf with the updated screen. This would mean that Jolla did no actual work and just brought a different model to relabel ?
That's what they say but who knows?

mosen 2015-12-18 12:00
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibeeftrix (Post 1491972)
8" 4:3 aspect ratio with 2048x1536 res is the perfect size for a tablet IMHO.
Yes, already had an 16:9 android. It sucked deeply in portrait mode :P

mikelima 2015-12-18 12:02
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1491974)
4:3 rules! The first note used that way back and that still rules. Now day's most things don't use it anymore :(

4:3 rocks for browsing!
4:3 is better than 16:9 for anything but watching videos.

I like what Google did for the Pixel C tablet (The european A-paper type ratio - 1/sqrt(2) ) however, it should work well for ebooks and comics too. And it is optimal for PDF files of course.

aegis 2015-12-18 12:27
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1491979)
Yes, already had an 16:9 android. It sucked deeply in portrait mode :P
16:10 8" tablet here. I prefer that to 16:9 and 4:3. It's just a bit wider in portrait than 16:9 but still single hand friendly. I find our iPad Mini a bit of a stretch and less pocket/bag friendly.

It helps it's also only 270g and 6.4mm thick too. I've had phones heavier than my Z3c tablet.

Copernicus 2015-12-18 12:40
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenecho (Post 1491976)
You cant possible mean that you can just "buy" an aigoX86 off the shelf with the updated screen. This would mean that Jolla did no actual work and just brought a different model to relabel ?
No, what this means is that Jolla paid for all the extra development work, and the Chinese factory is simply taking the finished design and selling it without paying Jolla anything. Given this significantly advantageous fiscal strategy, the factory can still make a profit even when selling at near the cost of the components...

tommo 2015-12-18 13:07
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1491983)
No, what this means is that Jolla paid for all the extra development work, and the Chinese factory is simply taking the finished design and selling it without paying Jolla anything. Given this significantly advantageous fiscal strategy, the factory can still make a profit even when selling at near the cost of the components...
what a bunch of bastards, I just thought they got stuck with a load of tablets jolla didn't pay for and were trying to get some money back.....

att 2015-12-18 13:09
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-back-business/

BluesLee 2015-12-18 13:13
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by att (Post 1491985)
Refund all backers and work with the community on a good Sailfishos port on a tablet device like the Nexus7 would make all of us happy:)

Just do it, i thought about it more than 30 secs, this idea has to be good;)

zenecho 2015-12-18 13:25
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by att (Post 1491985)
so still SOON then!

No Dancing Dave999 yet

peterleinchen 2015-12-18 13:46
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
As expected: only vague words about tabletgate.
So let this thread continue ...

JoOppen 2015-12-18 13:58
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterleinchen (Post 1491994)
As expected: only vague words about tabletgate.
So let this thread continue ...
I hope so .. It is so much fun!

itdoesntmatt 2015-12-18 14:06
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
it seems to me that this statement is saying that sfos development and roadmap about licensing will go on, while for tablet, solutions havent be decided yet. (even if antti seemed to be sure that in some way with money or tab deliveries this issue will be solved, SOON)

Copernicus 2015-12-18 14:08
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by itdoesntmatt (Post 1491996)
it seems to me that this statement is saying that sfos development and roadmap about licensing will go on, while for tablet, solutions havent be decided yet. (even if antti seemed to be sure that in some way with money or tab deliveries this issue will be solved, SOON)
Yup. I would guess that this means their new investor is quite interested in the Sailfish OS, but has no interest in the tablets. ;)

JoOppen 2015-12-18 14:16
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1491998)
Yup. I would guess that this means their new investor is quite interested in the Sailfish OS, but has no interest in the tablets. ;)
Could be me - although I backed the tablet.

mikelima 2015-12-18 14:20
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1491998)
Yup. I would guess that this means their new investor is quite interested in the Sailfish OS, but has no interest in the tablets. ;)
Compared with yesterday IRC logs, the news item is that there seem to be some new partner in the Russian area.

We already knew that the tablet decision was already postponed until after Christmas, so it is no surprise on that part.

mscion 2015-12-18 14:27
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
I'm trying to sort this out by simply considering the economics side of things. I'm sure the facts have been mentioned elsewhere here but could someone provide the following information.

1)To complete all the orders (production and delivery), what would be the typical cost per tablet to Jolla?

2)What was the typical amount paid to Jolla per tablet?

Then try to figure out how does Jolla come out ahead.

1)Blow off everything concerned with the tablet (i.e. no refund no tablet). It's done and over. Move on and let the chips fall where they may.
2)Refund everybody
3)Produce and deliver all tablets
4)Allow choice of refund or tablet.

Choice 1 is hopefully unlikely but you never know.
Anyway, assuming the money exists,
If it costs less to produce and mail out the tablets than to refund everyone Jolla may want to proceed with choice 3 Otherwise they might want to give out the refund and move on. If they chose 3 or 4 then the other thing to consider is that if the tablets are distributed they are presumably committed to providing some support which comes with its headaches...

IlkkaP 2015-12-18 14:57
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscion (Post 1492002)
I'm trying to sort this out by simply considering the economics side of things. I'm sure the facts have been mentioned elsewhere here but could someone provide the following information.

1)To complete all the orders (production and delivery), what would be the typical cost per tablet to Jolla?

2)What was the typical amount paid to Jolla per tablet?

Then try to figure out how does Jolla come out ahead.

1)Blow off everything concerned with the tablet (i.e. no refund no tablet). It's done and over. Move on and let the chips fall where they may.
2)Refund everybody
3)Produce and deliver all tablets
4)Allow choice of refund or tablet.

Choice 1 is hopefully unlikely but you never know.
Anyway, assuming the money exists,
If it costs less to produce and mail out the tablets than to refund everyone Jolla may want to proceed with choice 3 Otherwise they might want to give out the refund and move on. If they chose 3 or 4 then the other thing to consider is that if the tablets are distributed they are presumably committed to providing some support which comes with its headaches...
According to https://blog.jolla.com/open-letter-jolla-community/, Jolla tablet prepayments are around 2,8 M$. That is the amount to be refunded, if the tablet is shelved.

It is extremely unlikely any investor would be willing to invest millions in Jolla company, as Jolla has other debt too that would have to be covered in order to return normal operations.

It is unfortunate Jolla's latest blog entry is so vague about the actual amount "invested" in Jolla.

pichlo 2015-12-18 15:14
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1491983)
No, what this means is that Jolla paid for all the extra development work, and the Chinese factory is simply taking the finished design and selling it without paying Jolla anything. Given this significantly advantageous fiscal strategy, the factory can still make a profit even when selling at near the cost of the components...
Possible but unlikely.
This...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1491984)
I just thought they got stuck with a load of tablets jolla didn't pay for and were trying to get some money back.....
...looks more like it.

Copernicus 2015-12-18 15:17
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1492006)
This...looks more like it.
For those first 70+ tablets running SailfishOS and boxed in Jolla boxes, I agree. For those next 1000 tablets running Android, I disagree. :)

att 2015-12-18 15:32
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Article: Sailfish OS Lives To Fight Android Another Day As Jolla Secures Series C Funding

Edit:

Quote:

The crowdfunded Jolla tablet is also being impacted by the funding crunch, with ongoing delays to shipments and most backers still waiting to receive their tablets. Saarnio said it’s now considering options on that front — including potentially canceling the tablet and refunding backers — now it has secured fresh financing.

“This is a quite challenging situation because it’s not linear what is the harm done on the tablet program,” he told TechCrunch. “It’s something that if you delay or stop working with your production partner for a couple of months it basically means that it’s difficult to [re]start the process as well.

“So we are now looking into different alternatives. One of them is to continue with the tablet production. One is refunding of the tablets… We are now working to find out what is the realistic way to serve our customers.”

pagis 2015-12-18 15:35
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Assuming the cost of the tablet, till last November, was ~4.2 M$ they "pre-sold" 12K units and raised funding ~2.8 M$. The loss at that point was ~1.4 M$ but meanwhile they have finished both sw and hw designs.

If they go for a refund that will cost them 2.8 M$, and they have to write off hw designs cost as a loss too.

On the other hand if they produce the tablets they have to pay manufacturing costs only which I think(?) it must be less than $220 per device at the moment, plus hw support costs.

mscion 2015-12-18 16:09
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pagis (Post 1492012)
Assuming the cost of the tablet, till last November, was ~4.2 M$ they "pre-sold" 12K units and raised funding ~2.8 M$. The loss at that point was ~1.4 M$ but meanwhile they have finished both sw and hw designs.

If they go for a refund that will cost them 2.8 M$, and they have to write off hw designs cost as a loss too.

On the other hand if they produce the tablets they have to pay manufacturing costs only which I think(?) it must be less than $220 per device at the moment, plus hw support costs.
Well, it's hard to tell which option would be a clear winner. Unless I misunderstand the numbers, looks like refunding would be a little more costly to Jolla. While I would think that delivering tablets would initially generate more good will, the question would then be does Jolla want to put the effort to support it. I also find it a bit depressing that they plan to focus on Indian and Chinese and Russian markets, although I don't fault them if that is where the money is coming from.

Copernicus 2015-12-18 16:15
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pagis (Post 1492012)
On the other hand if they produce the tablets they have to pay manufacturing costs only which I think(?) it must be less than $220 per device at the moment, plus hw support costs.
The evidence says that the manufacturing costs are currently below $180 per unit.

peterleinchen 2015-12-18 16:27
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1492016)
The evidence says that the manufacturing costs are currently below $180 per unit.
And I am pretty sure that still includes some margin (at least in the first run / try to get rid of them).

att 2015-12-18 16:29
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
https://cdn.jolla.com/wp-content/upl..._FINAL2_63.pdf

Quote:
”So far Jolla as a start-up has been solely carrying the high investment cost of the Sailfish operating system. It has been very challenging to finance this operation. We are now moving into a model where our partners in the BRICS countries, especially in Russia, India and China, will invest in the R&D of local market operations, while Jolla will focus more on the development of the core of Sailfish OS, producing Sailfish software releases, and supporting its licensees & app developers. Further licensing deals will be announced soon," Antti Saarnio continues.

Dave999 2015-12-18 16:41
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
No Deals allowed while tabletGate is going on!

pichlo 2015-12-18 17:01
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by att (Post 1492021)
"...soon," Antti Saarnio continues.
Not much changed, then ;)

bandora 2015-12-18 17:12
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Man, that's just embarrassing that you can actually buy the Jolla tablet for $180 lol


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