Re: Rostelecom investment in Jolla
 

EDIT : if i can cut an apple from a tree (because it has a worm), that apple is then part of my (relative) reality. But it's not part of Reality cause it's relative?

Re: Rostelecom investment in Jolla
 

The problem with percieving Reality is that it is very much dependent on the sensory input of the perciever; with our natural senses we can get thin slices of reality, often conflicting with each other and then construct from that an "inner reality model" that we percieve. This is not only limitation of our senses but also of our physical brain and psychological thought processes.

Using instruments we can get different sizes and shapes of Reality that can be compressed into our sensory input but it still is not the whole Reality-as-is, and we still are limited in the processing side.

Re: Rostelecom investment in Jolla
 

Remember also we are part of reality too!

Re: Rostelecom investment in Jolla
 

So - back to the topic - there are at least two "things" starting with capital R - Rostelecom and Reality :D

Re: Rostelecom investment in Jolla
 

The apple with a worm is part of Reality though it won’t change Reality by cutting it down nor eat it or what ever you choose to do with it. The Apple would at one point stop existing as that particular apple anyway, though it’s energy will remain as part of Reality (Reality is non changeable). You just helped it along to its end as a mass/manifestation in our world, which is freedom of choice and relativity at play. The action will only change your reality from apple hanging on tree till now it doesn’t (the apple is still the same apple, thus Reality). Though your view on the apple might have changed from delicious to disposable (relativity in play).
Reality = Alpha and omega or all that is and is not. That entity can’t be changed and will stay as is for ever regardless of our doing to the mass inside the relative reality we live in, which Raelity only sets a frame for.

Re: Rostelecom investment in Jolla
 

You're confusing 'causality is the same for everyone' with 'causality exists'. Hume already showed nearly three centuries ago that causality - as we interpret it - is purely a mental construct, and if we assume humans are equipped with mostly the same mental faculties, it's reasonable to assume 'causality' is the same for everyone. This leaves completely open the possibility of whether causality actually exists outside of our mental constructs (quantum mechanics would say it both does and doesn't at the same time, only after it's observed does a causal relation either exist or not), and if it does, whether our mental constructs are reflections of the actual causal processes or causal interactions, whether our mental constructs and actual causality function in different ways (our mental constructs could require counterfactual dependence, but perhaps actual causality doesn't). These questions concern metaphysicians to this day.

To return to the apple: it's only cut if you choose a frame of reference to observe it.

Re: Rostelecom investment in Jolla
 

Yes. Back to the topic.

Someone once introduced me to the school of thought that says that everyone is right. If you think they are wrong, it does not mean they are. It merely means you have not yet found the point of view from which they are right.

So, from what point of view is the Russian takeover of Jolla good? :D

Re: Rostelecom investment in Jolla
 

Right, so I'm just going to say it - I have a feeling many of us are thinking it but it's an uncomfortable thought and so it's gone mostly unspoken so far.

From the Kremlin's point of view, it's handy not to be too reliant on Apple/Google software, which is produced by companies based in NATO countries. Especially when you have very different strategic aims to those countries, and tensions are increasing because you:

• recently annexed part of another country
• "probably" either lost control of your stockpile of your favourite nerve agent (best case scenario) or explicitly sanctioned its use against citizens in a NATO country (worst case scenario)
• are propping up another regime that is using chemical weapons on its own people
• are (quite successfully) gaslighting citizens in your own country and other NATO countries about all of the above

If relations deteriorate further, you probably don't want to have your government ministers chatting about strategy using a Google handset.

As for whether we here can benefit from the extra money/development efforts resulting from Russia investing in SFOS... that's a separate question. Will SFOS remain a mostly open platform that the Russian gov just happens to use lots? Or will it become like Android - open core but with all kinds of shady telemetry and crap on top, this time with the telemetry handled by companies aligned with Russia instead of America.

NB: I don't see "Russians" as synonymous with "Russia", by which I mean the current Russian government.

Re: Rostelecom investment in Jolla
 

I love this discussion guys. I'm a Facebook refusenik, but I've been wondering lately about trying out some of the alternatives. I have found that the quality of discussion is depressingly low. Maybe TMO is the only social media that I need, and it has been under my nose all this time ;)

As far as the nature of reality is concerned, I think that there is a core within which there is no scope for real debate. For example, I read somewhere that at the beginning of the Versailles treaty negotiations after the First World War, Georges Clemenceau said something like: "Whatever people say in the future about what happens here, no-one is going to assert that Belgium invaded Germany". The issue is realising when you are outside those limits, and you have to choose between different interpretations on the balance of evidence.

Off topic, and I don't care.... :cool:

Re: Rostelecom investment in Jolla
 

Casuality is much, much more than a "mental construct". It's physically defined, in the relativity theory!
I'd recall another "mental construct", btw, which Galileo back in the days did not accept.