maemo.org - Talk - can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

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- - can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=23147)

Re: can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 217649)

Careful what you wish for.

The trackpads on IBM (Lenovo) T series laptops are notorious for their touchiness. On my previous T43 I'd just get near the thing with a thumb and suddenly files are vanishing... images are randomly edited... porn popups are proliferating...

would it be running windows? if so i dont think its the touchpad thats the problem. and who uses the pad on a thinkpad anyways? they all got that nub in the keyboard, no? something i really wish one would transplant to consumer level laptops. but then they would risk undermining their oh so valuable corporate only price level...

Re: can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 217636)

A crappy UI is one that doesn't fit your use cases. Of course OS 2008 is crappy for the micro-laptop use case.

No, not really. The only thing crappy are the large GUI-elements that waste so much space on the screen. Make them smaller (as they were before OS2007) and its the perfect "micro-laptop" UI.

Re: can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 217653)

Out with the old.

In with the new.

One of the things I like most about the concept of the tablets is that they use well-established desktop technologies (such as GTK). End users dont care about this, but it makes it easier to bring already existing applications to the tablets without re-writing too much.

Breaking with well-established concepts might (not necessarily has to, but there's a risk) cause incompatibilities here. Its not that thousands of developers work on 3rd party apps for the tablets right now, right? I wonder if this number would further decrease if completely new UI-concepts would require devs to re-learn everything from scratch and make it harder (or impossible) to port desktop-application to the tablets.

Re: can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 217653)

In my opinion what's called for here is a revolutionary approach that throws old paradigms out the window and starts from scratch. Some time back we had that discussion here but unfortunately it seemed to have ultimately gone nowhere.

I want to forget conventional menus, zooming, scrolling, etc, and come up with an approach that is specifically designed around the tablets' capabilities. That means, IMO, increased usage of gestures and decreased emphasis on things like dropdown menus. Long clicks, finger motions, multitaps, etc. I'll take heat for this from traditionalists I know but something that borrows heavily from Canola, iPhone and other similar approaches.

Out with the old.

In with the new.

while i dont have a problem with the general idea (kde did something similar with kde4, to the point where they found they had to stop talking about the launcher as a "menu" to really get people to think about new ways of launching programs) but im not sure if canola is a good starting point.

this is because the kind of interface they have there only allows for very defined tasks. ones one move on to infinite expandability like what one have on maemo today, one basically have to provide a blank slate and allow each addon/program to create its own interface.

this while at the same time allowing for easy switching between any and all tasks/programs being performed at that moment.

what i would move like nokia to do is take a look at android. provide a set of connectors between different programs so that anyone can write a mail, browser or other program and have it become the default.

so that one could say keep the existing interface, but have the bookmark/browser icon in the upper right corner launch fennec rather then microb, or even links if someone wants to use that.

find a pdf in a mail? if evince is your default, thats what will open.

another option is to drop the program concept completely and go for something like haystack (and "old" mit project im somewhat in love with).

if one go that way, the only interface one would really have would be a file browser. everything else would depend on what files one launched...

the only icon needed then would be one to launch a new file browser window, and some way to swap between existing ones...

a potential example there would be konqueror ;)

Re: can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 217636)

I think if they want to go to mass market with a device that isn't a PDA, and less capable than a UMPC, a finger-friendly UI is essential. Not because of the iPhone, but because "mass market" means non-geeks, and many non-geeky people would never accept a geeky stylus that could easily be lost and needs to be pulled out first.

Funny. I wonder how old you are... Maybe this is a clash of cultures or something like that ;)

To me, stylus is the normal thing that hundreds of thousands people use every day with their PDAs and feel comfortable with. Using fingers on a touch screen is the new way to do it, so for me this is what's geeky and what scares people away sometimes (remember the 2 people I wrote about who bought themselves a stylus for their iPhone).

So thinking of mass market appeal, the stylus would be the natural choice for a device like the tablet thats too powerful for the few functions that can be controlled with fat fingers.

Re: can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

Just to throw my .02 out there I did like the ability of multiple touch-points, and also the tilt-screen capability on the iphone 3g. (I am not a MAC fan.. and would only ever pick a mac if the options were MAC and Windows.)

I was geeking out with a friend who bought the latest iphone and he showed me the Monkey balls port where all he has to do is tilt the ipod and the monkey rolls down that way, etc.. it was really quite cool... and of course the Frets on Fire port.. these things would be nice to have on the tablets..

But as it's known I'm an avid Debian user on these tablets because it has (almost) completely replaced my laptop for me. Including compiling and software development. I go home; plug in a USB cable and immediate have a mouse, keyboard and external HDD to work on. I go to work; disconnect my USB cable and take my computer to work with me. It's really that simple.

The iPhone doesn't come close.. and because I use debian I need the stylus; Gnome/KDE3/XFCE/Enlightenment is not Finger Friendly at all; KDE4 could be because of the new Menu they use (as mentioned above) but I don't particularly like it.

If it were at all possible I'd want the multi-point touchscreen AND a stylus =-(.. but when I have to pick between the two I go stylus.. it's more functional - Games aren't what I bought the tablet for.. (even though I trumped all when I showed them Doom :D)

Re: can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tso (Post 217660)

Yes it's Windows, but even so, the pad is too sensitive regardless. It should not, IMO, be registering my thumb's proximity as a click.

And *I* use the trackpad. I hate the nub, with a passion. I can never control it with any finesse. Maybe it's the artist in me... but I prefer moving my finger across a surface as opposed to trying to manipulate a tiny joystick that sends my cursor flying wildly across the screen...

Re: can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tso (Post 217669)

It was just an example people could visualize, that's all. Again, the essential point was starting from scratch. ;)

Re: can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 217686)

Yes it's Windows, but even so, the pad is too sensitive regardless. It should not, IMO, be registering my thumb's proximity as a click.

heh, thats why i avoid those things. i keep triggering the click when all i want to do is lift the finger of for a moment to move it back to the center of the pad or there about...

maybe i should look into the settings a bit more, i dont know. but mostly i dont use them myself, its other peoples computers i have to deal with them on...

Re: can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?

Someone mentioned long clicks.

I'm tired of long clicks. Tired, tired, tired.

Someone also mentioned long clicks and compared with Palm (no long clicks). YES! The Palm approach works and is never tiresome.