maemo.org - Talk - Use the N900 responsibly while driving

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Re: Use the N900 responsibly while driving

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonerp (Post 437968)

Go to BMW mate - my M5 is awesome.;)

The M5's are fine machines, indeed. But I'll stick to my CL65 AMG's.

Re: Use the N900 responsibly while driving

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 438158)

Well.. even though I said you and I won't agree on the laws I'll continue for a bit.

First: I don't think Texting while driving is a good idea for the vast majority of people. I just don't think it should be a law to such.

How is the cop expected to judge who's adept when he/she pulls someone over?

Should that even be his/her job? Or do they realize that, again, laws are not designed around the gifted few but rather due to the sloppy many?

Quote:

For your argument about holding a conversation taking more brainpower than yelling at your child I disagree. Both require similar amount of cognition. Holding a conversation with the neighbor sitting next to me actually takes more of my thought than texting (there's a caveat explained below).. because I am focused on what they are saying, or what I'm yelling to my kids, or looking at my kids in the mirror instead of focused on the road.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. This isn't about brainpower per se, and certainly not about opinion fatalsaint-- exhaustive studies have proved the point and been verified time and time again by peers.

Please read the actual studies. The important finding here is that we don't engage visual processing for someone with us-- only when we speak to someone remotely. That finding is so fundamental here that it has to be given more consideration than a casual read-through. Remote conversations highly compete with the attention we need for driving. That's no longer up for debate-- the evidence is conclusive... and the conclusions scary.

Quote:

So IMHO, the risk of texting while driving increases and decreases with the type of phone you are using - and is heavily dependent on how responsible the person doing it is. However, a swerving vehicle is a swerving vehicle, no matter what the reason is. And this is where the "Reckless Driving" should be employed.

I don't think the risk is worth it... hence my agreement with the laws and their (unfortunate) need.

Now, if I were king, I'd simply equip every phone with GPS that disabled conversations when motion was detected. Downside: geeks would circumvent this, die in accidents, and we would go an entire generation without programmers, air traffic controllers and science teachers. :p

Re: Use the N900 responsibly while driving

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 438178)

I did go to your link, and the subsequent link to the University of Utah. The theme is the same... they test undistracted drivers, drunk drivers, and texting drivers.

To use your style:

Undistracted <> Yelling at Kids, turning radio knobs, talking to a neighbor.

Re: Use the N900 responsibly while driving

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 438186)

I'm frustrated by the fact that you're glossing over the key part here... but I'll only pound on a dead horse so long. Besides, not my mission to change your mind on anything. I have to reserve that energy for my stubborn kids. :D

Re: Use the N900 responsibly while driving

Experientially, I concur with Texrat. To me, it 'feels' like I'm engaging more of my brain in concentration when I'm talking on the phone while driving, rather than talking to a passenger.

However, this difference 'feels' less when I'm using a bluetooth headset....and even less when the phone is tethered via bluetooth to the car audio system (it feels just like an in-car conversation).

I think part of the difference is due to the crappy audio quality coming from the phone or headset....your brain is concentrating on interpreting the sound....whereas with the call coming through the audio system, it sounds clear and easily intelligible.

Re: Use the N900 responsibly while driving

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 438193)

Ok So I looked closer. It appears the article isn't even about texting. It's about talking on the phone..

Quote:

“Drivers need to keep not only their hands on the wheel, they also have to keep their brains on the road,” said researcher Marcel Just.

Talking on a cell phone has a special social demand, and not interacting with the caller can be interpreted as rude or insulting behaviour, he added.

A passenger, by contrast, is likely to recognise increased demands on the driver’s attention and stop talking.

So your intent is not texting while driving... but completely removing all use of a cell phone while in a moving vehicle? It should be illegal to *talk* on the phone?

I can't read the *actual* study.. this silly site http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/jou...on#description wants me to pay for it or something. "Order Now".

I do enjoy our conversations.. but I'm not paying money to fully debate with you on here... as you've already won. It's already being illegalized because people prefer to be told what to do instead of deciding on their own in our society.

What I have not heard of was any mention of outlawing *talking* on the phone while driving. This would impact so many people as I doubt it would get passed.

Quote:

Just’s team used state-of-the-art functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) to measure activity in 20,000 brain locations, each about the size of a peppercorn. Measurements were recoded every second.

The listening-and-driving mode produced a 37 percent decrease in activity of the brain’s parietal lobe, which is associated with driving.

Listening <> Texting. So you know you'll never get the real problem addressed and instead are attacking just a subsect of it? Come on, say it right! NO CALLS WHILE DRIVING!

Hell.. even most military bases say "Use of cellular devices not authorized except with hands-free device." They are more draconian than the public.

ETA: Also, here's an example of the test,

Quote:

They steered a car along a virtual winding road either while they were undisturbed or while they were deciding whether a sentence they heard was true or false.

"Whether a sentence they heard.." it doesn't even mention phones there. Which evidently goes after what I'm saying.. it is just as distracting having a passenger as it is a phone. Even though it says a passenger *might* notice your busy.. i doubt most care.

Re: Use the N900 responsibly while driving

Unfortunately I have not been able to find the study we discussed when I was working with Nokia-- it was not the same as the one referenced in my link today, and was specifically designed to show the difference between talking to a remote listener vs speaking to someone in the car.

If I find it, of course I'll link back.

Aside to fatalsaint: of course I realize that study was about talking... but texting is of course more prone to cause accidents than mere talking due to level of engagement.

As for my preferences, in general I don't like prior restraint laws. I accept some only very reluctantly and after it's been sufficiently demonstrated to me that they have become necessary. For example I think laws against open alcohol containers in cars are technically absurd... but in the end I can't argue against their obvious need.

I'd rather expend my energy fighting the truly intrusive and stupid laws, like ones that put marijuana smokers in prison. But to each their own.

FOUND IT! warning: slow site...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2...phone_risk.htm

Quote:

A study showed that the part of the brain that controls vision becomes less active when people focus on something visually while having a conversation -- underscoring the hazards of talking on your cell phone while driving. Human factors experts say hands-free phones do not lower risk. Drivers on the phone are four times more likely to have accidents.

Unfortunately that particular article doesn't get into what they found regarding speaking to parties over a cell phone vs speaking to someone in proximity, but as I recall the difference in visual engagement was profound.

Re: Use the N900 responsibly while driving

That still refers to talking. So just explain to me: Are you supporting a Law to remove cell phones completely from cars?

It seems silly to me that if people believe that using a cell phone at all in a car increases the risk of an accident - why doesn't the law specify that? Why did they (most likely politicians) chicken out and single out texting only?

Re: Use the N900 responsibly while driving

Texrat:

http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/relea...ory.php?id=116

Please feel free to start the crusade in removing all Car-pool lanes, car-pool benefits, and driving of your children.

Thank you. ;)

Re: Use the N900 responsibly while driving

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 438232)

That still refers to talking. So just explain to me: Are you supporting a Law to remove cell phones completely from cars?

Again: I just not have found the specific text. But it exists. The study and its implications were a hot topic within Nokia's walls a few years ago.

And no, I don't support such an extreme law.

Quote:

It seems silly to me that if people believe that using a cell phone at all in a car increases the risk of an accident - why doesn't the law specify that? Why did they (most likely politicians) chicken out and single out texting only?

Who says politicians understand science? And as I've alluded, it's the easier target... and maybe a test case for future legislation. We frogs must be boiled slowly. ;)