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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Community (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85061)

woody14619 2012-06-28 17:28
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1228430)
Is there a mailing list, or other asynchronous communication medium, for those of us who are occupied with unrelated day jobs at that time?
There is mainly the wiki page and IRC, as right now most of those involved are able to (and prefer to) interact via IRC. If that changed, I'm sure using one of the community mailing lists (probably devel) would work.

qwazix 2012-06-28 18:25
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1228542)
I respectfully disagree. For one thing, users shouldn't suddenly have to set up a gazillion third-party accounts in order to participate. Having cohesion in the community infrastructure is important. If "anyone can chose what he likes", where do we draw the line? Why not dump the forum for example as well, surely an argument can be made that it's also very expensive to run and there are better alternatives elsewhere. Why not also dump extras, it eats a lot of bandwidth after all and people can just set up their own repositories on various free hosting services around.

Shouldn't we find out how much such a thing would cost? It may well be that we can't afford to host it (in which case we probably can't afford to host the repositories and autobuilder so we may as well give up), but throwing it out without consideration would be a shame.
Outside hosting does not necessarily conflict with consistency. Qt project moved to gitorious without losing it's coherency as a project or a community. We could discuss with one of thos providers and move tactically there.

lma 2012-06-28 19:19
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1228691)
Qt project moved to gitorious without losing it's coherency as a project or a community.
That's a single software project though, while maemo.org is composed of literally hundreds.

woody14619 2012-06-28 19:28
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1228542)
Having cohesion in the community infrastructure is important.
I agree with this, but there's nothing to say you can't have cohesion while using a public services. There are plenty of communities on SourceForge that have tons of unity, even across multiple projects. The "all or nothing" approach is just as unhealthy as the "scatter wherever we can" approach, IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1228542)
Shouldn't we find out how much such a thing would cost? It may well be that we can't afford to host it (in which case we probably can't afford to host the repositories and autobuilder so we may as well give up), but throwing it out without consideration would be a shame.
I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. I think the suggestions coming in are reasonable ones about which tools have viable/cheaper/free alternatives. I don't think anyone is advocating that we discard those services here on a whim without even looking at a cost/benefit factor.

Before we can evaluate costs though, we need to know which tools have alternatives, and which tools are not available elsewhere. For example: It doesn't make sense to choose hosting repos over OBS based on cost if we can't get OBS outside of our own funding, but could get repos for free somewhere. We must separate needs from wants, just as much as we need to evaluate costs, before we can decide which parts to fund with the limited budget we'll wind up having.

misterc 2012-06-28 22:57
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1228542)
[...]

Shouldn't we find out how much such a thing would cost? It may well be that we can't afford to host it (in which case we probably can't afford to host the repositories and autobuilder so we may as well give up), but throwing it out without consideration would be a shame.
i think this is an important aspect to consider, careful planing sort'a thing...
what's the point setting up Paypal accounts & all, possibly collecting considerable amounts (which members of this community are certainly able & willing to muster) to eventually have to admit... nope, sorry, can't afford it :'(
and then all those horrendous fees Paypal taxes under the pretense of exchanges and then keeping the money for ages for themselves to heavy interests on it :mad:

no no, no go
certainly not if it all ends up being too expensive

like a saying goes... nothing but expenses :eek:

misterc 2012-06-28 23:00
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 1228720)
I agree with this, but there's nothing to say you can't have cohesion while using a public services. There are plenty of communities on SourceForge that have tons of unity, even across multiple projects. The "all or nothing" approach is just as unhealthy as the "scatter wherever we can" approach, IMHO.



I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. I think the suggestions coming in are reasonable ones about which tools have viable/cheaper/free alternatives. I don't think anyone is advocating that we discard those services here on a whim without even looking at a cost/benefit factor.

Before we can evaluate costs though, we need to know which tools have alternatives, and which tools are not available elsewhere. For example: It doesn't make sense to choose hosting repos over OBS based on cost if we can't get OBS outside of our own funding, but could get repos for free somewhere. We must separate needs from wants, just as much as we need to evaluate costs, before we can decide which parts to fund with the limited budget we'll wind up having.
do we need repos at all?
i mean, the packages ARE FOSS, after all?
this is what torrent was designed for, in the 1st place, no?

woody14619 2012-06-29 02:28
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1228813)
do we need repos at all?
i mean, the packages ARE FOSS, after all?
this is what torrent was designed for, in the 1st place, no?
Do you have a version of apt-get on your N900 that supports getting packages from torrent streams? I don't.

misterc 2012-06-29 04:48
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 1228845)
Do you have a version of apt-get on your N900 that supports getting packages from torrent streams? I don't.
Google is your friend, my friend...
(hint: look for the 5DVD set entry...)

EDIT: and i'm not even using that f###ing deb package management on my home systems... long live RPM >¦-)

misterc 2012-06-29 05:03
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
once this is setup locally, it is merely a matter of releasing a new torrent with the same directory structure to release updates.
torrent file could be called cssu-20120629-0102.torrent or something...
use your imagination, for crying out loud :mad:

woody14619 2012-06-29 16:20
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1228866)
]Google is your friend, my friend...
Which is all fine and dandy for an experienced user. Not so easy to setup for someone with limited skills that may not even have another system to start up with. And no, you can't just use your N900, because to do that you need to install apps to do BitTor and the like, which means you need a repo to get those from to start with. (Chicken/egg situation.)

Those of us with a technical background don't need repos at all, they're just a nice convenience. I've run Linux since pre 1.0 days, and am not unfamiliar with life before package managers.

But this project isn't for 4 or 5 people hacking things in their dorm rooms, it's for a community. For a community, we will need repos. Whether those are hosted by Nokia, or us, or Debian.org, or some other entity is what's being asked; the question is where or how, not if.


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