Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

In theory, this move to a completely open source system is great news. But I swear I've only heard one shoe drop. So I'll keep listening...

I think the primary strength of Maemo is maemo.org, the community. There really seems to be no (amateur) community over at moblin.org, and I will be quite upset if we lose that in the merge.

But I'll talk about that more in the other thread.

The biggest technical problem for me is the move from Debian to Fedora...

It seems to me that Easy Debian will be even more useful in the MeeGo future, because Moblin and Fedora have historically had a tiny application list available for ARM processors. Up until very very recently, Fedora's ARM repositories could be charitably considered "experimental". Debian, on the other hand, pretty much compiled the entire Lenny distribution for ARM. Ubuntu got there with Karmic, too.

So, having access to the ARM-friendly Debian and Ubuntu repositories is going to become even more important as the primary system aligns with Intel-centric Fedora instead.

I will have to learn, like all the other hackers and developers who have been chasing the Maemo car around as it makes its sudden, wild turns, how to make packages for the new system, and how to deal with the numerous "eccentricities" that MeeGo (and the Maemo "instances" of MeeGo) will introduce. You just have to think of it as a steeplechase, and then it is fun again. :rolleyes:

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I hope that Mer switches to rpm too, so I could at least understand the package format and help a little more.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

That's the same experience as mine, as a long time mandriva user (as you know PCLinuxOs is derived from mandriva).
In fact I never understood the excitement about ubuntu (I tried it and I thought: wtf?)

As is mandriva, which, btw, is planning an arm repository.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I also believe that that decision was correct. But having a mobile (base) distribution seems to be well in Redhat's interests. It's a case where they can sell support to world's biggest companies by just doing what they are currently doing. There is no end-user interaction in mobile OS market, nor such a diversity and good-support is heavily needed. Redhat can support both base system and kernel/hardware and is sure the best (and perhaps the only) company that can do that.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I truly hope not.

Right now (as far as i understand it) Mer is Debian/ARM combined with as much Maemo things as can be build OpenSource on top of it.

Which is a GOOD thing.

What I hope for is Canonical picking up Mer and supporting it to create a Debian based alternative to this madness.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Agreed - I love the community here, I have faith however that we wont all take off after this, if anything things like this tend to spur people to become more Maemoee? (Yes its a word). I was lucky and went straight for Qt for my very tentative dev intro on this platform so I am hoping to get in on the ground floor for the new.

As far as the name. MeeGo, remember folks - you never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator. And I can only imagine that Nokia and Intel are hoping to capture the attention of as many LCD people as they can

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

http://meego.com/

Is that an N900.. on the front page??

This gives me some hope.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I hope...meego will apply at N900..if not, i kill myself :) N900 is new phone and if nokia and intel doesn´t able to aplly meego on n900, it kills this phone :(

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Intel designs and fabricates their hardware; they write the drivers and choose to open source them. Nokia does not manufacture hardware at the transistor level. They license IP and drivers from other manufacturers and are limited in what they can release to the community. I don't see MeeGo being as open as Moblin is, at least in terms of Nokia handsets. A community backport doesn't hold much promise.

On the debate over rpm/deb, the advantage that .deb holds over .rpm isn't the format, it's the tools that are used to build and manipulate .deb packages. Nothing handles dependencies (especially orphaned dependencies upon removal) as well as aptitude. Given Debian's ARMEL arch and Ubuntu's recent port, it just makes sense not to gut Maemo. It's not a personal vendetta against Red Hat's success.

I don't want to jump to conclusions so soon, but right now MeeGo looks more like a frankenstein creation than a deliberate collaboration.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Playing devil's advocate... what will people do if MeeGo doesn't make it to the N900? I mean, it is step 4 out of 5.

Just curious.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I haven't read the whole thread so pardon me if this comment has been made before. I think it's a shortened "amigo".

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Wait wait wait wait. What's this I hear about Meego/Maemo moving to RPM? :( God, I hope not. Debian's packaging system is vastly superior. Please Nokia! Please stick with APT & dpkg!

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Don't kill yourself over a phone, dude! :eek:

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

what will come first? The end of this thread or Meego?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Does" step 4 out of 5" still have a place in the face of meego?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

mullf: I´m joking :D i´m afraid of. meego will need great programers and great apps and for maemo?? nothing?? it will be end of maemo, i hope not

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Buy step 5.... ;)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Though I'm most familiar with and so prefer using rpms, and I don't see where one package system has a significant technical advantage over the other, I can understand how longtime Debian-flavor users might feel upset. It's kinda like having to buy a Nissan when you've always had Toyotas.

All I can really say to that is...Fear not! It's just not a big deal. I have no problem switching between the 2 systems. You won't either.

The only significant technical problem I've seen expressed is ARM-compatible rpms or the lack thereof. A legitimate concern I suppose. But I think people here aren't taking into consideration the truly massive effort a combined Nokia/Intel/Linux Foundation coalition could throw at the problem. A concentrated attack by those forces could wipe that out pretty quickly. They could get a whole lotta compilin' goin' on in a hurry. End of problem. And no doubt Nokia & their new friends already have a plan of action in place to do just that.

So relax, enjoy your N900s and smile. This is gonna get good! Soon we'll all look even more brilliant than we already did for choosing Maemo over those Brand X OSs.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Honestly as wrong as it sounds, i don't care. Ok i'm a gadget lover and i buy a new phone every 6-8 months, but also because of that i really don't start from the assumption that the device will get full support after +1 year(it's just norm in the SE, Nokia, LG and Samsung world while Nokia is by far best keeping the device alive compared to these).
All the signs where clear and visible even before N900 got announced. There where some reviews i remember at the start of N900 release that where talking a bit too much when they actually didn't know anything about it. I guess that's partly why some are disappointed and i of course understand that because why wouldn't people ask long support for their +500 euros device.

That said i'm sounding like MeeGo isn't coming to N900. We just don't know yet :)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Keep having Good Time installing all those new apps that come out for MeeGo on their N900s. QT 4.6 ported to Maemo 5 means we can still run at least most new goodies. Since it's a trivial matter to make both debs and rpms from the same software, I gotta think most apps will be made available in both formats for quite a while.

No problem.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

There is also an assumption that the next device will be Arm based, based on todays announcement all bets are off as far as I am concerned.
Intel have an agenda, maybe there is a ultra low power Atom multi-core processor around the corner. They sure as hell cant be happy with the state of play in the Arm market creeping up to their turf.

Atom on Meego
Arm on Symbian

That sounds very tidy to me, and would explain a lot.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

That really is just rubbish. Can you back it up with anything? Anything at all?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Not really, I think. It's never been safe to install binary packages from one distribution on another, and despite the large volume of Debian debs available for ARM no-one should be installing them on a Maemo system (with the exception of things like Easy Debian, obviously). There's no particular reason to think that it would be any harder to MeeGo-ify an RPM than it already is to Maemo-ize a deb. In either case you're going to have to rebuild it for the target OS at the very least, and given the UI differences probably take on some more proper porting work.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

just a quick question, i want to make myself clear of this:

what are the negatives/cons of the n900 not getting meego?
is it just the amount of apps produced for the n900?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

The point is - is this a change for the sake of change or is there anything to actually win by the switch (i.e. why was it 'easier' for Maemo to accept RPM than Moblin to do the same for DEB) ?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

True, true. Anyway, point is there will be sufficient combined resources available now to simply overwhelm any problems. And plenty of motivation to use them to slow down the iPhone/Android stampede.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Why they did not choose the slackware packages. They are more mature ;-)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I'm sorry but I find this strangely comforting. :D

Someone who only showed up here, with a major presence, a few months ago to celebrate the non-tabletness of the Nokia N900 phone and told the existing (internettablettalk.com) community to move on with the (N8x0-obsoleting) times now finds the shoe on the other foot.

Sorry.. just found it amusing.

Nothing to see here. Move along... :p

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I have the feeling that since Nokia and Intel had agreed on a partnership, they have looked for something which they could produce as a visible outcome of this partnership. So Intel forced its Moblin into it. As I see it, Moblin does not have anything to offer to Maemo, so their token contribution is the RPM packaging. Moblin has not gone anywhere, and Intel probably would have silently buried the project in the months to come. Now they can at least drag Maemo (which is doing quite well in production) with it.

I am being cynical.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Indeed, this would make perfect sense. Actually, it's hard to imagine why they wouldn't do it!
The HW is still up to date and available, they have developers who already know how to use it, they have an opportunity to prove a point they are trying to make. Simply put, a pure win-win for everyone.

I really hope they won't blow this one.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Please let's put aside discussing n900 in this community board thread and focus on the community aspects. Will maemo be completely dismantled or will it continue as a community effort as Nokia moves on to meego? Will all of the maemo documentation, projects, etc. automatically be moved to meego?

Maybe there is no meego user forum because talk.maemo.org is going to be it.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

i personally think one of the major reasons why nokia may ditch the n900 because it sold much much more than what they expected. and nokias main objective is to make money, so theyve made more money than expected so they go to the next step

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I thought that as I was putting mine on tonight; no, not the bright (jaffa) orange one and no, not because of the news ;-)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Interesting news :http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

http://wiki.meego.com/Maemo_and_Moblin_community_assets

I giggled at the comparison. Maemo has so many more things that Moblin and MG... like already released devices!

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Given the switch to a fedora-based distro, how will this impact developers on debian based systems (of which there are many...)?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

jaaksi says consider maemo6 a instance of MeeGo so will we see a packaging change as early as then?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Think that's a very interesting discussion as well.

What's going to happen to Maemo ?

I'm assuming that for Nokia purposes it will be dropped entirely, scrapped in favor of Moblin's code base. Then taking all that left over source code and port it to Moblin so it can benefit from Maemo's source which is already running on real devices, with real user feedback.

Maybe I'm wrong but I just do not see why somebody would want to completely port of Maemo to a fedora system if that means scrapping the existing Fedora codebase of Moblin.

Would Nokia be interested in dropping a lot of the closed source restrictions and making the maemo code which will be dead in a couple of years Opensource so projects like Mer can use them ?

And what will happen to the community nature of Maemo, will the counsel stay ? Will community members in important roles still be welcome ?

Or would it be more a system of coorperations and 'professional developers' like Apple, Google, Microsoft and Palm got ?

I reallize that on his blog Jaaksi talks about a open software platform, but will it provide the same kind of community platform that Maemo's got ?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Did you ever actually read any of my posts? How loud I was in the discussions about trying to reshape the forums so that 770 and N8X0 users could still use them easily and comfortably? How I argued (as a t.m.o. user) for keeping the email lists because others valued them? How I worried that the users of older tablets weren't prepared for the influx of n900 users and the noise they/we would make?

Apparently, despite my 'major presence' you didn't take in any of what I said.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Yeah, he's been listening. Good. In fact, this may make the N900 MORE interesting than before.