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-   -   SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44928)

fatalsaint 2010-02-19 21:31
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 537368)
In that case, what is the channel to be used by a person who notices this kind of abuse? Is leaving a comment at maemo.org > packages > Fremantle Extras-testing free armel enough. There seems to be comment threads there with no activity within the last few months.

It seems like OP joined here relatively recently, as have I. At least my initial response would have been similar: I would have posted about it on this forum. maemo.wiki's front page or FAQ doesn't have answer on how to handle situation like this. Quickly searching the maemo.org site doesn't reveal any help on how to deal situation like this.

It's one thin to say this should be approached silently, and other thing to clearly provide information to end users how the silent approach should be handled.
This is part of what I'm advocating.. see what I said here.

Texrat 2010-02-19 21:33
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemmyslender (Post 537361)
But how long will we wait for the resolution? If a program is found that bricks devices, an announcement should be made immediately (and probably stickied), with a resolution added later.

I'm not as concerned with the resolution as I am passing along pertinent information in a timely manner.
I dunno what to say about timelines.

But notification that process has been started by a regulatory body along with status reports of progress and resolutions should be the main, minimum concern in any form of jurisprudence.

Texrat 2010-02-19 21:37
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 537368)
It's one thing to say this should be approached silently, and other thing to clearly provide information to end users how the silent approach should be handled.
I have only approached this topic at a high level, not detailed.

YoDude 2010-02-19 21:48
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Please forget what he did for a moment and concentrate how he did it.

Multiple log-ins.

This can be checked against IP and email addy at registration automagicly... and should be... but apparently it is not.

If not, anything that is decided by one member, one vote on maemo.org could be affected.

How many votes decided the membership of the Community Council?
How hard would it be for bogus member #1 to thank bogus member #2 in order to build karma.. and so on?
Now that this is out in the open, I can say that this is what prompted my objection to reporting vote tallies while the polls were open in the last election. When given a goal to achieve, some people will find inspiration.

This is what has always motivated me to question why the hell single sign-on across maemo.org sites has not been initiated. It would make cross checking a whole lot easier.

What this fellow did, and how he did it, did not require an advanced degree in rocket science. Preventing, or at least reducing the possibility of multiple log-ins doesn't either.

Who can make it happen?

What can, and is being done about that?

ewan 2010-02-19 21:49
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 537356)
*sigh*

- approach silently
- announce process start publicly
- announce resolution publicly
- put away torches and pitchforks and move on
That could work.

fatalsaint 2010-02-19 21:52
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 537398)
Who can make it happen?

What can, and is being done about that?
Well.. there has been *some* mitigation done:

X-Fade's Post

It requires Karma now, and shows a registered since.

Don't know if they fixed the duplicate emails or ip check though.

Flandry 2010-02-19 22:17
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
You know, all of this could have been avoided if the requirement for a few votes from a tester's group was implemented

ewan 2010-02-19 22:31
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
So, lets try a few concrete(ish) policy proposals:
  • One maemo.org account, one person. No account to be used by multiple people, no person to have access to multiple accounts.
  • Suspected breaches of policy or abuse of resources to be referred to a body (the Council?) for investigation/decision,
  • After an investigation that body will make a public report of the facts, and any action taken in response.

Does that sound like a reasonable starting point?

Texrat 2010-02-19 22:42
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Since MeeGo supports working groups, I would replace council with Tester Working Group. But yeah, that.

YoDude 2010-02-20 00:20
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
I'm using the term wrong but mutiple accounts for one user is what I mean.



Quote:
It happens all of the time. Some members will make multiple accounts to back their own opinion or get an extra vote in a poll. Here's a modification that will detect and prevent multiple accounts, as well as notify the administration about multiple accounts. Inspiration for this modification came from the work of MPDev (creator of the Multiple Account Login Detector) and randominity (creator of the Multiple Account Registration Prevention). This is basically a combination of those two modifications but with new and improved functionality.

>> http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=199077

sjgadsby 2010-02-20 00:29
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 537398)
This is what has always motivated me to question why the hell single sign-on across maemo.org sites has not been initiated.
It has, and there's been several discussions of the work and progress on that project here in the past. The move to new, faster servers has been said to make the work slightly easier, though incompatibilities between the various servers involved still present numerous challenges.

YoDude 2010-02-20 04:45
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 537572)
It has, and there's been several discussions of the work and progress on that project here in the past. The move to new, faster servers has been said to make the work slightly easier, though incompatibilities between the various servers involved still present numerous challenges.
Hopefully then the "serious guys" at the Genesis of MeeGo will understand this need too. It would also be why I would resist any merger of membership benefits with out some kind of preventative medicine first. But I guess that last bit would be best for discussion in another thread.

Dude, I don't envy your job as I can image the tasks it must entail. I do thank you and the others for doing it though.
Cheers.

sjgadsby 2010-02-20 05:09
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 537844)
Hopefully then the "serious guys" at the Genesis of MeeGo will understand this need too.
From what I've seen, everyone appears to. A common thread throughout each planning discussion I've seen has been "let's take this opportunity to not repeat maemo.org's multiple login mess". The fact that the MeeGo wiki requires an irritatingly maemo.org-like account activation dance* has only helped to make the importance of the issue clear in the minds of both the Moblin and maemo.org "sides".

Reggie, for instance, is already testing different methods and add-ons for integrating vBulletin accounts with MeeGo's login system. The use of vBulletin hasn't been absolutely decided yet, but he's testing all the same. This is commendable, as it will allow the community to take the level of possible vBulletin integration, whatever it winds up being, into account as we work toward a decision on forum software.

* The people who set up the "we need something in place for the big announcement" MeeGo site have already indicated their displeasure with the complications involved in getting access to the wiki, and they appear to be looking for fixes.

lma 2010-02-20 07:56
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemmyslender (Post 537305)
There must be some community discussion in every case. I think we can agree that:

Developer A bypasses the QA system to make money faster is bad.
Developer B bypasses the QA system to steal passwords is much worse.
Developer C bypasses the QA system to brick devices is even worse.
Actually, I consider B to be much worse than C, since I can recover from C by reflashing and the damage is contained to the data on the device. In case B the malicious developer could do unlimited damage until the problem is discovered and the passwords changed.

Quote:
Do they all get the same announcement "Developer bypassed the QA system and software has been removed."?

Or do Developers B and C get a more detailed announcement? So that the community is aware they were acting in a very anti-social manner?
There are various degrees of severity. Bypassing the QA system is one thing, to be dealt with by the community however we decide.

Stealing passwords or intentionally bricking devices however is a clear-cut criminal matter and law encforcement should be involved.

B & C should get a more detailed announcement to at least explain to affected users the repercussions of installing the affected software and how to recover if possible.

ossipena 2010-02-20 08:24
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 537356)
- announce resolution publicly
- grab torches and pitchforks for day or two
- put away torches and pitchforks and move on
I see a hole where there are a dozen mammoths hiding between those two french lines.... how much have you followed n900 delayed, firmware released, maemo funeral etc threads?

e: corrected the quote

Texrat 2010-02-20 08:30
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
I'm not focusing on problems, just solutions... admittedly imperfect ones at that.

Addison 2010-02-20 08:43
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Well, in my opinion, if you're going to screw up, at least give it 100% effort.

That advice was towards Texrat and not the creep that jerked everyone. :D

tomster 2010-02-20 09:04
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashandDie (Post 536242)
Use this thread to discuss how this issue occurred, how we should handle it in the future (because we will have to go there again), summarise what we can learn from it. Use it for bashing again and it will be locked.
Could we agree at least to rename the thread so SIO2's name is removed? I guess that'd be a nice peace-pipe re-start.

ewan 2010-02-20 09:43
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
I really don't see why we should. There's nothing unfair or misleading in this thread, they did actually do what they were accused of. Why would you want to hide that?

Edit: On reflection, that doesn't sound quite the way it was intended. What I mean is that what happened, happened - both the original abuse, and the various responses to it. This thread is an important record of a real event, and one that's likely to inform decisions about how things are done in future. A record like that shouldn't be tampered with just because the events it records make some people uncomfortable.

Flandry 2010-02-20 15:12
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
While i agree with that, and gave basically the same response when questioned regarding the statement i made when unsticking the SiO2 thread, it doesn't help the conversation here continue in its new course. I would suggest breaking off the discussion of what to do now etc. into a new thread so random people don't keep picking it up from the beginning and running with it, one way or another. In other words, it's in the past: let's focus on the future.

Bratag 2010-02-21 00:32
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Good God I left for two entire days - I come back and people are still whining about this guy?

Texrat 2010-02-21 02:26
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratag (Post 539104)
Good God I left for two entire days - I come back and people are still whining about this guy?
I guess I still don't get some people's definition of "whining"...

Addison 2010-03-03 07:50
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
I know that this topic has been beaten to death so sorry for bringing it back up again.

But has anyone else ever asked why there are over 10,920 users on this forum without even a single post?

Those kind of numbers don't seem to make any sense to me.

Maybe this guy was on to something. :)

inidrog 2010-06-21 18:27
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flandry (Post 538533)
In other words, it's in the past: let's focus on the future. .

Hi have you seen the extras testing for the two Sio apps?

It doesn't look like this community is willing to or able to forgive or leave anything in the past, except Nokia's own flaws.

SoccerFrenzy 1.0.2
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...rfrenzy/1.0.2/

HoopsFrenzy 1.0.2
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...sfrenzy/1.0.2/

For me it looks like "Sio2" is banned for life.

slender 2010-06-21 18:31
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
inidrog,
So what?
And banned for life? Probably in your opinion N900 has been out for ages? Let's think that "banned for life" statement after couple of years.

ysss 2010-06-21 18:34
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
@inidrog: if I remember correctly, somewhere in this thread the developer conveyed his intention of leaving maemo development and ignored the numerous request for him to reconsider that action.

inidrog 2010-06-21 18:38
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
No matter what, the Sio2 apps are in the "xtras-testing queue" and should be treated accordingly, or banned/deleted. Is of course my opinion, if I am allowed..?

Texrat 2010-06-21 18:44
Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 
Of course your opinion is allowed, inidrog, just like anyone else's.


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