Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

These are post release question. If they answer them now I'm sure the answers will be as foggy as the foggiest Fogg.

Plus, you can't do anything at all with the information, since no SDK, devices or OS are available.

These questions is like chasing your tail. Still, I salut you for hunting information.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

* How much of ubuntus unity is stuff made by people outside Canonical? To me its seems halfclosed project already.
* Firefox has none intrests in Qt AFAIK.
* BB10 is most closed

SailfishOS and Ubuntu should coorperate but I doubt they will. Ubuntu has in history shown theyr not so intrested in coorperate with FOSS anymore. Just take a look at Gnome and KDE... Both ditched by Canonical in favour of unity...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

...dished? You mean ditched. If we are not talking about Dish or DirectTV et al :D

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

One thing I thinked about in case of sailfishOS...

If they have any intrests left in europe to sell some phones here:

Why not cooperate with KDE team to sync phone with KDE desktop? If we take a closer look at the other platforms:

BB10 has its HUB/syncing stuff even if I am not clear exact what it is about.

Ubuntu Mobile will work well with Ubuntu desktop.

IOS syncs with Apple products.

WP == Microsoft

and so on....

What I am missing on Hartmattan is a good way to syncronize N9 with my KDE linux desktop. some kind of push function to send and receive stuff and share music with amarok etc... stored passwords using kwallet should sync well with salfishOS passwordwallet etc...

Ofcourse this should open technologys so they can be ported to whatever OS people use on desktop. But atleast on start it should support KDE. Both KDE and Jolla would win alot to cooperate on this.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Canonical said only one person (in the entire company) was working on KDE for Ubuntu (The Kubuntu project) and they've seized supporting it because he's decided to move to another job.

It would be unwise for them to choose to support something that isn't getting much attention.

Now for Gnome, I can't make any excuses for them. As far as I know, they are working in open-source, so technically they are working for free and can do whatever they want.

And they want to support their OWN gui, emphasis on "their". The disadvantage is that it wont be collaborated with others, at least not soon. But the advantage is, they can choose the design decisions and try to make something that can be "sought after" in today's finger friendly and gesture-based GUI interfaces. This wouldn't be possible on other gui's or without forking it.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Eeeeehm... KDE hasn't neccesarily be on (K)ubuntu, there are many other distros that use KDE, openSuSe for example. I don't follow your logic, So why isn't KDE getting much attention? KDE != Kubuntu

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

You left out the most successful (in terms of marketshare), Android...

And as you can see, it does not sync with any of the desktop OSs like the above ones, and for a good reason - in the smartphone era lots of your users don't even have a PC.

Supporting KDE would be a waste of resources, as the userbase is so very small.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

But is Sailfish any different than Ubuntu in this regard? In fact, isn't Ubuntu better here. From all that's been read Sailfish core UI is closed source. Ubuntu's core UI might be developed mainly by Canonical, but from all that I've read it seems it will be open source.

On top of that to me they seem to try to engage the community more. For example https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/

Of course much of Sailfish is still quite shrouded and could change. But to me, at the moment, Ubuntu seems more open source.

Personally I'm looking forward to both of them. At the moment I have more trust in Sailfish in understanding the mobile space better (ie. giving us developers better and more complete APIs), and in Ubuntu for more open source and community involment.

But all this can change as time passes. These are anyway the 2 mobile operating systems I'm looking forward to and I hope there will be some co-operation between them at least on QML components level.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

So far they indicated that they are interested in collaboration:
http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermai...ry/000126.html

We'll see how it will go.

In general I think Sailifish is going to be more open source, especially in the sense of open development. Ubuntu uses mostly the closed development model with practically no input from outside on their design plans.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I was replying to Mike, about Ubuntu ditched KDE and Gnome.

KDE has just made a minor update (actually major improvement).
The frustrating thing about open source solutions, is that they are very slow and sometimes get cancelled midway for nobreason. The good thing is that its actually possible, you get free software: free to use, distribute, to improve.

The fact is the Linux OS are free and the GUI are free, so if people prefer one distribution with one certain GUI... thats their freedom to choose and use it. We cant dictate it. In this field the best isnt tye one that survives, its the one thats most popular. Jus compare maemo5 to Android 2.0

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Frankly, I think that everything you need to know about Jolla's future can be learned by comparing this page:

http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone

with this one:

http://jolla.com

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

again its all about marketing and hype. I am 100 percent sure jolla is way before ubuntu in case of ready smartphone but then again they seems to miss one thing marketting :(

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Let's see... Ubuntu apparently will release a beta version of their phone OS for developers (running on the Galaxy Nexus) this month. Jolla will release their N950 version for developers to use - never, apparently. Ubuntu has an SDK and sample native app available for download at their website now. At Jolla's website, you can view a collection of twitter posts.

Both companies seem to have a beta version of their code running on an existing phone, which looks nice in a demo video. What makes you so sure Jolla is way ahead of Ubuntu?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I do not know who launches first but I have much more hope in Jolla. I do not like Ubuntu distro, would not use on my PC today use Mandriva (ROSA version), before use Ubuntu would have to go through, OpenSuse, Fedora, Mageia and several others. Unity sucks!

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I agree - Unity sucks. I abandoned Ubuntu and went back to plain vanilla Debian on my laptop for exactly that reason. But Ubuntu on the desktop actually exists. Ubuntu has on the order of 10 million users. Is Jolla, which has exactly zero end users now, really preferable to Ubuntu just because they haven't released anything to hate yet?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

We have the core! MER is the core.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Not just the Mer, Sailfish OS also uses some parts of Nemo Mobile. And MeeGo Harmattan softwares in Qt/Qt Quick can be easily ported.

So, today, everybody can develop :
- libraries, CLI softwares, etc, for Mer/Sailfish OS;
- GUI softwares in MeeGo Harmattan/Nemo Mobile and easily port to Sailfish OS.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

If you go to the Sailfish wiki, to learn how to start developing for Sailfish, you are presented with the following message:

Application Developers / Build a Sailfish App
It's early days for building applications on Sailfish OS; at the moment you have to build your own copy of QtCreator and then work with the people in #jollamobile on IRC.
We are using Qt with our Sailfish UI components and soon you will be able to download our QtCreator plugins that will automate this for you.

Why, after all these months, have they not bothered to bundle up these components, and provide something like a virtualbox image with the required components so that persons wishing to develop for their platform don't have to roll their own SDK?

BTW - the #jollamobile IRC channel is about as active as a cemetery.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

So you know for a fact that they've even bothered to read/answer some of it?
I hope they're not taking the attitude; "Oh well, they can just wait till MWC for SOME answers." Starting to feel like deja-vu again :-/

Not a entirely bad idea, so put it in the relevant doc or communicate it to them...

PC form-factor or hybrids aren't going anywhere anytime soon, many folks will continue to have more than just a smartphone or pure tablet.

Not if it creates a good base from which to easily port to other major desktop platforms...

From what I've read so far, Sailfish is just as open source....
Except Jolla will have some closed stock apps, so they can differentiate from other vendors that want to use Sailfish, or so they can license their flavour of Sailfish.
Agree with all your other points though, esp. the part about eventual collaboration, I really hope that happens, & in a genuine/comprehensive way.

Eh? They're targeting more than the N950, & the basis for Sailfish (Nemo) has been available for yonks now.

Jolla's already confirmed that the SDK will be available by the end of this month...
Agree about Jolla's site though, if it's a reflection of their UX_design & coding prowess, I'm worried.

The fact that just a few weeks ago Canonical was saying they wouldn't have their OS on their phone till early 2014.
That changed in the last week or so, now it'll supposedly be as early as October...
Besides, these guys aren't direct competitors (initially at least), Ubuntu's made clear that they're focusing only on the low-end.

Not really true to argue they have zero, one could argue that they certainly have more mobile chops than Ubuntu, by virtue of Maemo/MeeGo/Qt_mobile etc.

Again, see my earlier response, this is coming at the end of this mth, this was all covered at FOSDEM.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Ken-Young,

They had an initial idea of how to release the SDK but the feedback they garnered made them realize that they needed to change a few components. Eventually open-sourcing those things they didn't intend to keep open has taken them time.

I'm not for defending Jolla but I rather they release something that's "proper" and upto expectations instead of doing an initial release that puts off those very developers they intend to attract for sustainability.

Anyway the jury would be out on them in ~2weeks when they release the Sailfish Alpha SDK; hopefully it is up-to many people's expectations.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Seems that finally many of you also think market, visibility and how Jolly using the words in public. The SDK won't change that. It's very lily that they just add a link to their OS page and send out a tweet and that's it. When you release somthing as a small Compony. Make something about it. Doesn't really matter how small and what the release is about. Mybee they relaying on the community to work as their marketing machine, providing step by step, videos and texts.

Show us the browser and show working android applications that is the "new stuff".

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

So this has been confirmed, it is definitely coming (at least some answers)...
It has been delayed primarily due to stskeeps being ill, but it is being worked on supposedly.
No clear time-lines yet sadly, but hopefully a large chunk will be addressed before we hit MWC.
The remainder can be cleared-up @MWC or in subsequent mths, hopefully there won't be many non-addressed Qns/Ideas by the end of MWC though.
Then the Concerns/Criticisms doc can get more of a workout, & eventually be presented to the Sailfish_Alliance too.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

does this mean they answer half a question/day?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

no device announcement on mwc - disappointing.....

From @JollaHQ
#Jolla will be at #MWC13 focusing on meeting key partners, and presenting the #Sailfish SDK (via pre-arranged meetings only).


Also from @JollaHQ
@vedhaspatkar The first Jolla device product will be announced at a later time.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Really disappointing. But still the first device shall be announced during Q1 so it can't be that far away for the public.

Does it mean that the alpha SDK will be available for DL for the public or is closed meetings only?

Well, that makes it easier to focus on the first tizen devices during MWC.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Disappointing, I hope this doesn't mean Q1 is slipping as the announce target too, we'll know soon enough...
Tizen's not very interesting now that it's looking like a completely closed Samsung-only game, with little-to-no wider collab.
There's still confusion over what native libs they're now using*, no-one's even allowed to know that, bizarrely enough.
But, lets see what extra detail they decide to release at MWC.....

*EFL may no longer be a major component.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Well, they sure learned how to procastinate and be late with everything at Nokia!

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

because of its history. Jolla developers knows about embedded Linux and phonestack, camera stack etc... Canonical does not.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

How do you know what unknown (to you), devs knows. Pretty intressting assessment :D

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I don't think they're late with anything... Jolla announced their Sailfish SDK by Q1 2013 and a device before summer 2013. That's all and we're still in time - everything else was brought of by others.

I would even say, that they're being very different to Nokia. While Nokia often announced many things which afterwards got cancelled or weren't published for months, Jolla is more careful with that.
We probably shouldn't compare Canonical/Ubuntu Foundation with Jolla and we'll certainly see a proper jolla.com website once they have more to show/tell.

Just see what happened with their statement that Sailfish can run on N9/N950...many started to think that there will be some kind of update by Jolla for those Nokia phones (I heard many creative requests about that...).

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

They've claimed SDK by the end of this mth (see FOSDEM), but wider announcement is still Q1, & availability for purchase is still during (or the end of) Summer.
At one point they said before Summer, that kinda clashed with other earlier assertions of during or by the end of Summer.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

When is 'summer'? Always confuses me as it is different everywhere.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Aug 1st possibly!

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Marko Mattila, employee of Jolla had a showcase on Sailfish SDK at FOSDEM and it came up that the SDK would be available by end of February. Jolla as a company never confirmed that, so I think we have to be careful with that. Also 'available' can be interpreted in different ways. Available/ready for "friends & partners" at MWC2013?

I've never heard them say during/end summer, but could have easily missed that. Maybe they meant availability by end of summer? Personally I always compare the Jolla device schedule with the N9 schedule 2 years ago:

February: Rumours, but non presentation of device (N9 and Jolla device)
June: Presentation of actual device (N9 so far)
September: Public release of phone (N9 so far)
:)

@Dave999 Summer in the Northern Hemisphere begins June 21 if I remember right. So we'll see a Jolla device by June 20! ;) :cool:

UPDATE: Via Twitter - #Jolla's CEO Marc Dillon will have a keynote at #MWC13 on "Mobile as a Platform for Innovation" on Feb 28 at 9:30am in Hall 4, Auditorium 1.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

And there the hole message by Jolla:

Jolla at Mobile World Congress 2013

This year we will be focusing on face to face discussions with partners, customers, analysts and media during MWC. We will present the Sailfish Software Development Kit (SDK) that will be soon available as an Alpha release for the Sailfish community. To arrange a meeting with Jolla during MWC please email us info@jolla.com.

Jolla's CEO Marc Dillon will be giving a keynote speech on the topic "Mobile as Platform for Innovation", on February 28th 9:30am in Hall 4, Auditorium 1. In addition the top spokepersons from Jolla will be available for media interviews during February 25-28th. Please contact press@jolla.com to pre-book an interview.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Yes, they did, plenty of folks got confirmation by Jolla folks at FOSDEM.
That doesn't mean a wider announcement about the product will come then, that still sits at Q1, unless otherwise advised by Jolla.
Of course there's always a chance that the SDK will be delayed...

Yes during/end of Summer = in the Summer period, or by the end of it...
The most recent reportings of what they've said have been fixated on "before Summer".
But I think Jolla's earlier statements are likely to be more accurate, assuming there's no significant delay.

Also remember N9 didn't arrive in decent no's to most official countries till long after Sept, even for the 1st official countries it didn't start shipping until approx. Sept 20.
If Jolla does no worse than that, then they're doing okay for a tiny start-up, still not ideal ofc, if they want to maximise their chances of success.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Naturally they're referring to the northern hemisphere Summer...
That's where the bulk of the world experiences summer, it's where most of the 1st world is, it's where Jolla & most associates are based, & it's where most customers & likely to be.
Northern Summer varies... but generally speaking it's June-August (maybe a bit of Sept too).

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I don't think they had a specific date in mind when they said summer.
Summer in September? Are you crazy :D

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Well, obviously.

Do some research ;)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Also note that Canonical said they'll target US market right away, while Jolla said they won't target it at first. Is it the lack of resources to set up delivery logistics and etc.?