Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

I did also some pretty wide searches without results. There's only this one tweet about tablet(?) UX study https://twitter.com/cybette/status/613644604760530944 which isn't related to developers.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

The "most opensource" tablet you say? But no proper info about it at all 2 month after promised release date. Transparency you say, and no info again, who will get those, what are the problems and when...

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Well, considering the entire set of tablets available today, you've gotta admit that creating a device more open than any of them would not be hard to do. :) Google's selection of Android for their portable device OS back in the day was a big step forward, but since then pretty much every manufacturer has been entrenching into their own closed ecosystems. (And yeah, the success of Apple does have a lot to do with that...)

So Jolla can probably get away with saying anything they want on that front, as nobody seems to want to compete with them. It just doesn't look profitable to try and sell open portable devices right now. :(

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

I think we Will get some tablet intel this coming weeks. I have foreseen It. If not, we might have to call jolla and ask what's going on over there...

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

@Copernicus: Not profitable indeed. Look at how the KDE Vivaldi tablet has failed. And the OpenPandora is available but they're not really making any profit either. So no, open hardware tablets are not profitable (yet).

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Linux on desktop is not fully open as well. There are blobs and it's okay. The question are tools to flash and openness in sw part, not drivers and blobs

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Blob-free Linux is available! :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-libre

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

yes, but how it supports modern hw? Btw there is modern hardware as well, but again performance.

The question how usable is it. While i would always prefer opensource over closed source, i don't mind to have certain closed sourced things if support is good and it works properly. I'm not asking Jolla to opensource everything and 3rd party blobs. But i would like to have it as much opensource as they call it opensource ;) Especially promised parts, the UI parts they promised to opensource before even phone was released :)

Edit:
P.S. Do not jump at me, but when i'm saying Linux i mean not only kernel but GNU/Linux :P

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Ah! There are indeed full distributions built around Linux-libre, and totally open. Examples:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabola_GNU/Linux-libre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisquel

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

I think we need to give some contructive feed back to jolla. Anyone got an account at this jolla.togheter place?

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

You can open one yourself for free ;-)

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

https://together.jolla.com where is that create an account link? so you have to create a jolla acoount?

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Right at the top. Where it says, "Hi there! Please sign in".

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

I'm......In!
Posted what I hope to be my first&last post in that...tool :D

Do jollas usually answer questions there?

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

let's say... sometimes. There are quite a few ”sailors” on tjc, but they have some strange way of deciding which questions to answer.
Usually they are really helpful with technical questions.
They don't like to answer questions about roadmaps or their plans for the future, though.
perfect example is the thread about paid apps support - it was started by a Jolla employee, has become one of the
most popular questions - and then it took almost two years [EDIT: 15 months, I was exaggerating a bit... /Edit] until cybette posted the next “semi-official“ comment - basically saying “we are doing something, but I can't tell you what and when it will be done”...

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

The good thing is that you don't even need to post, you can also just vote a couple of times.

Here is one topic for you desperately in need of votes ;)

https://together.jolla.com/question/...to-the-tablet/

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

If they do add cell connectivity of any sort, I certainly hope that they continue to offer an option not to include it. I've completely had it with the cell phone industry; the last thing I want is their tentacles getting any further into my computing devices...

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery
 

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the US contributed most.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery
 

maybe total amount, but what if you devided by poeple in country. asked about some stats months ago on indigoo campaign page and they sayd they would publish it on the blog. nowhere to be seen. also jolla said something about a blog post about contributers in the last tablet blog post...still nowhere to be seen.

would be intressting to compare with the ubuntu edge campaign

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery
 

You can do the comparison already.

Ubuntu Edge: Publicity stunt, was never meant to succeed. Every detail was known upfront. Open, public and transparent on every step along the way, except for the intention.

Jolla tablet: Rather scant on details, some of them were changing along the way. Clearly not very well planned. Hardly any communication. But, unlike Ubuntu Edge, there at least seems to be the intention to deliver. Sometimes. Maybe.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Changing details are not uncommon in agile projects and organizations, as they are not planned in detail into distant future. They are more like evolving as they go, which may lead to impression of "not very well planned" but ultimately it allows to deliver something quickly instead of honing every detail until release (or unti public interes has faded).

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

No one argues on that, but there is difference on private project that was changed X times and you get info only after release and you know about it and changes on public project that you have info on how it was planned to be and no changes info, especially if it's critical info that can influence on future of project you already paid for

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery
 

well, we were talking about countires and contributors ...

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

As far as we know the whole Tablet / 2.0 thing was cobbled together in well under 2 months (more like 5-6 weeks) and then launched on Indiegogo .. nothing about it was well planned, and nothing since suggests that it became well planned.

The hardware is a reference platform that's almost indistinguishable from similar tablets (like the Nokia one). Differences are cosmetic. They're not creating their own platform, and 99% of components won't have changed or would be extremely minor revisions from pre-Indiegogo launch.

Now that the software (or maybe still hardware adaption) isn't there, we have the silence and the disappearance of the developer device loan programme.

Jolla have proved themselves to be anything but "agile" when it comes to keeping things on track, updating important facets of their OS and informing their users and interested parties about what's going on.

First sighting of the tablet since MWC (4 months this week) was in the photo from that Chinese article published yesterday.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery
 

I covered those in my post:

;)

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Well, then that post was of waste of time!

We simply need to vote more or add more comments. They can't ignore us forever since it might backfire...right in their face.

We need the:
https://together.jolla.com/upfiles/140473766159936.png



Atleast Dirk found a jolla that is alive. Thanks to lekku for caring and answer about loan program...and to Dirk for asking.

dirkvanleersum on June 25, 2015 at 1:31 pm
Still starting ‘soon’? :)


Iekku Pylkkä on June 26, 2015 at 3:20 pm
"As we earlier communicated [0] we have had a bumpy road with the display development for the Jolla Tablet. As we see the display is one of the most crucial quality factors of the product we want to take this with extra care. The integration challenges continue with the display, which will impact the developer device program device sending schedule. We are working together with our ODM to solve this and hope to start the program soon!
[0] https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-iteration-4/"

I think its safe to say we still got an issue with the screen. Let's speculate while waiting for info :D

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

And source for this information is... where?

Delay is not disappearance.

Looking at the pace and amount of updates, I'd count them to be agile compared to just about anyone else. But surely I've been wondering for some time now if any attempt for openness is just waste of resources as nothing will ever be enough for everybody and responses are more or less hostile and poisonous.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

It's now pretty clear that the timetable has shifted about one month forward from July. Another option is to ditch the whole dev loan program and start shipping as early as possible (in the end of July) for customers. But as I wrote earlier, I have a feeling that it's not gonna happen.

JulmaHerra: source is here: https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-...starting-soon/

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Why ditch...Why not let everyone participate in Huge beta test phase...jolla should send a mail:

Do you want:
1. to paticipate in beta test and we aim to ship july?
2. do you want to wait for stable?

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Delay is not, but lack of any communication especially on that matter
P.S Do you remember PR before they asked for money? Btw there are PR people there and communication chief, so it would not take time from developers if you want to tell me about "small resources".
One of co-founders even had time for TED talks :)

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

1) If you'd followed it, everywhere.

2) It is when the developer fails to post any updates and stops interacting entirely with the minute community they have, and this after the product is delayed and has issues ... they haven't updated the Indiegogo campaign in 4 months. How is that in any way excusable, especially when unlike many startups they have dedicated community people and a well-staffed PR team? Before you try to wring your hands and concoct an explanation, I'l give you a clue; it isn't.

3) See 2. Plus, the number of updates relative to the lack of progress made further underlines how bad things have been. If there was any "agility" you'd see them constantly talking to the few active community devs and patchers who have managed to significantly ameliorate many problems or lacking features ... instead the standard M.O. appears to be to ignore them completely even when they repeatedly reach out. Furthermore, if you believe the delays are all down to a change in display (which happened MONTHS ago), you're either gullible or they've ****ed up horribly in some way ... there is no possible way that adaption for a new display panel should take much time.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Then you should have no problem finding source for this claim:

"As far as we know the whole Tablet / 2.0 thing was cobbled together in well under 2 months (more like 5-6 weeks)"

Depends on what information is relevant and what is not. For some it's no less than every detail to be bemoaned like in some yellow press magazine and I'd really want to believe that the community would be something else than that. For some it suffices that there has been problems with display, which has been replaced with another model, they need more time to finish the software and that the delivery is delayed because of those things. To give additional information is mostly optional and until they are able to announce the delivery date or that they need to delay further, there is no relevant information to share. Nice-to-know kind of information is not that relevant, especially if it's used mostly for finger pointing and bemoaning. Sometimes silence is best PR.

Um... I never said that the display was the only thing behind delay. Neither did Jolla. There is software side of things also and it has to be solid from the beginning on Jolla Tablet, even with expense of lacking some features and/or delays, because delivering on time does not generate good PR if software side is too buggy or manufacturing quality is bad.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Amen to that, so far every information that was divulged has been turned upside down by our beloved jolla haters. Now they can just repeat the same 'jolla has bad PR', again and again and again, we get it. Go hate somewhere else please, no new info for you to vulture on

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Hang on now, they've provided some substantive updates much more recently than that, the last major one was no more than 2mth ago.
Not sure if it was done on the IGG page too, but it was done on their public facing BLOG, which they said they'd be using as their "public billboard".
I agree though that there must be more comms, there hasn't been enough, they're overdue for some more clarification on several fronts ASAP.
They do have at least ~2 staff dedicated to PR, God knows what they're actually doing with their time...
Perhaps they're still focused on work related to wooing more partners, but that's not an excuse any more...

Is it really that bad, how can one objectively compare it to similar niche platforms, & justifiably say it's "far worse"?
For e.g. having used UbuntuTouch, I'm not sure I'm seeing anything being done vastly better, but last time I tried it was ~6-mth ago.

I'm not sure anyone should be taking your word for this, where are all these marginalised active devs, why aren't they here saying exactly the same thing?

I don't think anyone is saying it's solely due to display issues....

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Let me put it this way. How would you feel about the safety of your money if you were a Jolla's investor rather than a customer? I know that would have stopped expecting any return of investment and considered the money written off months ago.

But that is exactly the question. Where are all those devs that vistaus claims to have received their tablets? The some vague "I have read that it happened," without providing any reference. Well, I have heard about a pink, fire-breathing hippo swimming in the Thames in Oxfordshire.

Jolla did. Months ago. Since then, silence.

I really wish some people stopped seeing Jolla as their "special friend". They are not. They are a commercial company. And as such, their behaviour is a steady road to disaster. If not there already.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

This exactly prooves the point that lack of information is not good.
As there was no information if they actually resolved the problems with display (even HW problem as finding proper replacement). And no one said that they just need some time to finish software, as there is possibility as they hit a brick.

The whole problem is that with no information all we talk here are speculations. And it can take you any direction.
You see it black and white, but no we do not need "yellow press" info from inside Jolla, all we need is brief update which is common thing in any crowedfunded project — ANY...

It's not even about good or bad PR, it's about common sense when people funded the product and have no idea of it's status and future after 2 months delay. Again some people have sentimental feelings towards Jolla, but just to think about it objectively, think that NoName company did it, especially if this company till now released only 1 product and also with delays and not exactly as it was introduced, company that failed to opensource the parts they promised (this one is fact) and think what mess it would be if Ms or other company would promise to opensource something and they did not do it...Exactly, you treat company by how you connected to them and how you like them, and many times we judge one company one way and other when they actually do the same exactly thing.

And now just some information — Jolla had problems not once, and it can happen to anyone btw. but the problem is not about the problems, but how they handled it. Most of times they just ignored deliberately this problem or got out of grid. At some point they answered to some of those issues, only after huge noise and rant from community and when it was already too late. So pattern here is simple. As maemo community mostly expected to be logical and its's not first time (btw everytime they ask for excuse and tell us they'll improve next time).

P.S. Btw there is not much info around, but you'll find shocking that quite few well-known and respected here devs who were with Jolla at first days( i mean worked there, not supporters) left them. Though that's is more of yellow press, but you need to understand that some people not simply leave project with no reason, especially if they FOSS supporters and Jolla is so good.... just food for thought, that you are wearing pink glasses. And that they actually have great PR team if you still think all is that good and they are perfect, as their campains before they ask for money are always great and silence just after money is gathered is common pattern :)

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

they made a blog post, but what information was passed? And actually in this same post they said they'll post info "soon". So they made a post with no info, saying that info will follow and nothing.
Btw when they said they'll opensource UI parts, they made a huge noise about it at conferences they attended and talked about FOSS, but when they changed their mind, they just did not update anyone, and when people started to ask, only after disputes, fights and rants, they told that they would,... maybe.... someday...
This is exactly the example of promising anything before product and disappearing straight after they did not keep promise. And it's ok if things changed and there is reason for that, but they do not need to wait till sh*t hits fans to communicate and explain.
Developing behind closed doors and not sharing info is far from transparency and opensource they talk about. Just look at facebook and google and even microsoft, they have a lot of FOSS projects they contribute and even meetups and everything which would make you think they care about FOSS or you, but we all know what they care about and hwo they make their decisions, Jolla is no different at all.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

1)
Not my Qn, please re-read what I was asking, you're answering my Qn with a Qn, & one which happens to be a completely different point.

2)
Again, not addressing my Qn, I agree that what he posted was unfortunate, maybe a honest mistake, not sure, but it wasn't what "I" was asking.

3)
AFAICT they haven't just said they have display issues, they've said they have a raft of other things things to fix/complete.
Please review their last major BLOG posts, & the road-maps they've shared recently...

Are you inferring I see Jolla as my "special friend"? I do like to try to look at things objectively.

I concur with most of what you say, I was only making a much simpler point in addressing that prior post.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Well, the post in question has 483 votes today, being the 8th most voted topic on together.jolla.com.

There is a big discussion going on, some very long and quite well done posts/ comments/ answers (e.g. my-jolla is making some good points in my view) - but "almost" no feedback from Jolla...

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

You mean the people translating Sailfish OS on their own and waiting for Jolla to finally launch the community translation service they promised a long time ago ?
Or the developers wanting to use SDL and waiting for a fix to make its way to a release ?
Developers of multimedia apps waiting for GStreamer 1.0 to be added and allowed in Harbour ?
Developers waiting for usable Bluetooth support ?
Developers waiting for screen blanking support to be allowed in Harbour (that includes me)?
Low level developers waiting for a way to recovery a non-booting Jolla ?
Developers and users wanting to use SIP waiting on Jolla to finally do their part of the work ?

There are many people that are willing to help but can't due to waiting for Jolla to do their part...