maemo.org - Talk - First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

One thing I missed from previous version, which still is not implemented is possibility to lock device with ons swipe when I have an applcation in the front; I need to first swipe off sideways and only after that swile down to lock. What I'd like to see si to lock the device without killing thew app, using for example an L-shaped swipe or something.

What about this:

Shorter swipe(something like max 30- 50%): When you are in application it closes it. When you are in homescreen or events it locks the device.

Longer swipe: It brings the menu as it is now.

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-12 14:07

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1482218)

Yes, that was about it. Gestures. Means to an end. We have a new hammer so everything has become a nail. Let's use gestures for everything, with no regard whether it suits the purpose or not.
Consistent? Definitely. Intuitive? Definitely not!

The new interface may have lost some of that consistency but it made up to it a thousand times with a much increased intuitivity.

This comes from someone who has used Jolla for a year and was very familiar with the interface, so you cannot accuse me of confusing intuitivity with familiarity.

honestly i found swipe gesture on cover not only consistent, but even intuitive and useful. you dont risk to miss tap that buttons wich are also horrible. for the rest i prefer this 2.0..i think that a solution if the are decided to keep such useless carousel ( what the sense of it? to play with fingers? i have better things to do), is implement something as patch of nodevel that trasform the cursed buttons in pull down menu on cover,but adding the other button with pull up on cover.
only problem would be scrolling, but i think its enought to scroll holding space between covers and not within cover. or maybe setting a lateral vertical bar (only virtual) on the edge. if u want to scroll u can do it between the covers, or using thumb up and down on the right side ( or left)

vistaus

2015-09-12 18:09

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Why not a two-finger swipe to switch carousel?

HtheB

2015-09-12 18:17

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by vistaus (Post 1482291)

Why not a two-finger swipe to switch carousel?

because there might be people with no fingers. (or only 1 finger :p)

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-12 18:22

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

it would be difficult since we are used to use thumbs..generally

ssahla

2015-09-12 18:45

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssahla (Post 1481892)

Did you know that a double press of the power button wakes straight to home screen? Works only when lock code is not required, though.

Oh, by the way – I had forgotten about this! – you can make the double-tap-screen work in the same way as double-press-powerbutton with terminal command

Code:

mcetool --set-doubletap-mode=unlock

That way a double tap on the screen takes you straight to home screen, if the lock code is not active. Just tested, works in 1.1.9.28.

Revert with

Code:

mcetool --set-doubletap-mode=show-unlock-screen

kaari

2015-09-12 19:17

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

It brings you also to events view if you have closed from it, Great.

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-12 19:44

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssahla (Post 1482296)

Oh, by the way – I had forgotten about this! – you can make the double-tap-screen work in the same way as double-press-powerbutton with terminal command

Code:

mcetool --set-doubletap-mode=unlock

That way a double tap on the screen takes you straight to home screen, if the lock code is not active. Just tested, works in 1.1.9.28.

Revert with

Code:

mcetool --set-doubletap-mode=show-unlock-screen

so from phone locked with double tap it takes to home ??

pichlo

2015-09-12 19:57

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by itdoesntmatt (Post 1482300)

so from phone locked with double tap it takes to home ??

Yes! It even survives a power cycle. Ssahla, I cannot thank you enough. Do you have a donation link? I want to buy you a beer.

ssahla

2015-09-12 20:09

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1482301)

Yes! It even survives a power cycle. Ssahla, I cannot thank you enough. Do you have a donation link? I want to buy you a beer.

I don't have a donation link. Buy me a beer if you come across me some day. :) Anyway, I didn't find that out by myself, I just spend too much time on TJC. :)

minimos

2015-09-13 07:13

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

That triggers the question, is there a wiki page or such where the functions of this little nice tool are documented? (without the need for rummaging through source code, I mean)

Code:

[root@Jolla ~]# mcetool --help

Mode Control Entity Tool



USAGE

        mcetool [OPTION] ...



OPTIONS

  -U, --unblank-screen

  -d, --dim-screen

  -n, --blank-screen

      --blank-screen-lpm

  -P, --blank-prevent

  -v, --cancel-blank-prevent

  -G, --set-dim-timeout=<secs>

  -O, --set-dim-timeouts=<secs,secs,...>

  -f, --set-adaptive-dimming-mode=<enabled|disabled>

  -J, --set-adaptive-dimming-time=<secs>

  -o, --set-blank-timeout=<secs>

      --set-blank-from-lockscreen-timeout=<secs>

      --set-blank-from-lpm-on-timeout=<secs>

      --set-blank-from-lpm-off-timeout=<secs>

  -j, --set-never-blank=<enabled|disabled>

  -K, --set-autolock-mode=<enabled|disabled>

      --set-autolock-delay=<seconds[.fraction]>

      --set-devicelock-in-lockscreen=<READ THE LONG HELP>

  -t, --set-tklock-blank=<enabled|disabled>

  -I, --set-inhibit-mode=<disabled|stay-on-with-charger|stay-on|stay-dim-with-charger|stay-dim>

  -k, --set-tklock-mode=<locked|locked-dim|locked-delay|unlocked>

  -m, --tklock-callback=<unlock|retry|timeout|closed>

  -q, --tklock-open=<oneinput|visual|lpm|pause>

  -Q, --tklock-close

  -M, --set-doubletap-mode=<disabled|show-unlock-screen|unlock>

  -z, --set-doubletap-wakeup=<never|always|proximity>

  -Z, --set-powerkey-action=<never|always|proximity|proximity2>

      --set-powerkey-blanking=<off|lpm>

      --set-powerkey-long-press-delay=<ms>

      --set-powerkey-double-press-delay=<ms>

      --set-display-on-single-powerkey-press-actions=<actions>

      --set-display-on-double-powerkey-press-actions=<actions>

      --set-display-on-long-powerkey-press-actions=<actions>

      --set-display-off-single-powerkey-press-actions=<actions>

      --set-display-off-double-powerkey-press-actions=<actions>

      --set-display-off-long-powerkey-press-actions=<actions>

      --set-powerkey-dbus-action1=<signal_argument|method_call_details>

      --set-powerkey-dbus-action2=<signal_argument|method_call_details>

      --set-powerkey-dbus-action3=<signal_argument|method_call_details>

      --set-powerkey-dbus-action4=<signal_argument|method_call_details>

      --set-powerkey-dbus-action5=<signal_argument|method_call_details>

      --set-powerkey-dbus-action6=<signal_argument|method_call_details>

      --set-powerkey-ps-override-count=<press-count>

      --set-powerkey-ps-override-timeout=<ms>

      --set-display-off-override=<disabled|use-lpm>

  -r, --enable-radio=<master|cellular|wlan|bluetooth>

  -R, --disable-radio=<master|cellular|wlan|bluetooth>

  -p, --set-power-saving-mode=<enabled|disabled>

  -T, --set-psm-threshold=<10|20|30|40|50>

  -F, --set-forced-psm=<enabled|disabled>

  -E, --set-low-power-mode=<enabled|disabled>

      --set-lpmui-triggering=<bit1[,bit2][...]>

  -s, --set-suspend-policy=<enabled|disabled|early>

  -S, --set-cpu-scaling-governor=<automatic|performance|interactive>

  -i, --set-fake-doubletap=<enabled|disabled>

  -b, --set-display-brightness=<1...100>

  -g, --set-als-mode=<enabled|disabled>

      --set-als-autobrightness=<enabled|disabled>

      --set-als-input-filter=<disabled|median>

      --set-als-sample-time=<50...1000>

  -u, --set-ps-mode=<enabled|disabled>

      --set-ps-blocks-touch=<enabled|disabled>

      --set-lid-sensor-mode=<enabled|disabled>

      --set-filter-lid-with-als=<enabled|disabled>

      --set-orientation-sensor-mode=<enabled|disabled>

  -a, --get-color-profile-ids

  -A, --set-color-profile=<ID>

  -C, --set-cabc-mode=<off|ui|still-image|moving-image>

  -c, --set-call-state=<none|ringing|active|service>:<normal|emergency>

  -l, --enable-led

  -L, --disable-led

      --enable-led-pattern=<PATTERN>

      --disable-led-pattern=<PATTERN>

      --show-led-patterns

  -y, --activate-led-pattern=<PATTERN>

  -Y, --deactivate-led-pattern=<PATTERN>

      --set-sw-breathing=<enabled|disabled>

      --set-sw-breathing-limit=<0 ... 100>

  -e, --powerkey-event=<short|double|long>

  -D, --set-demo-mode=<on|off>

      --set-brightness-fade-def=<msecs>

      --set-brightness-fade-dim=<msecs>

      --set-brightness-fade-als=<msecs>

      --set-brightness-fade-blank=<msecs>

      --set-brightness-fade-unblank=<msecs>

      --set-lipstick-core-delay=<secs>

      --set-touch-unblock-delay=<msecs>

      --begin-notification[=<name[,duration_ms[,renew_ms]]>]

      --end-notification[=<name[,linger_ms]>]

  -N, --status

  -B, --block[=<secs>]

  -h, --help[=<OPTION|"all">]

  -H, --long-help[=<OPTION>]

  -V, --version

      --set-memuse-warning-used=<page_count>

      --set-memuse-warning-active=<page_count>

      --set-memuse-critical-used=<page_count>

      --set-memuse-critical-active=<page_count>

      --set-exception-length-call-in=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-call-out=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-alarm=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-usb-connect=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-usb-dialog=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-charger=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-battery=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-jack-in=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-jack-out=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-camera=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-volume=<msec>

      --set-exception-length-activity=<msec>

      --reset-settings[=<keyish>]

Jedibeeftrix

2015-09-13 07:36

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterMaster (Post 1482264)

owncloud?

#hopeful

romu	2015-09-13 14:09

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

So you can run:

Quote:

mcetool --set-doubletap-mode=unlock --set-low-power-mode=enabled

To get a Low Power Mode "à la " N9

mosen

2015-09-13 18:45

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimos (Post 1482335)

That triggers the question, is there a wiki page or such where the functions of this little nice tool are documented?

Simo Ruho from reviewjolla.blogspot.com has done some effort in a blogpost just today :D

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-13 19:04

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

with 1.19 when i try to install with pkcon or zypper return me an error about something like arm version and blabla

Mikkosssss

2015-09-13 19:10

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by itdoesntmatt (Post 1482402)

with 1.19 when i try to install with pkcon or zypper return me an error about something like arm version and blabla

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1481793

Like this? Then scroll down 2 posts.

juiceme

2015-09-13 19:10

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by itdoesntmatt (Post 1482402)

with 1.19 when i try to install with pkcon or zypper return me an error about something like arm version and blabla

Could you paste in the actual install command you tried and the error response you got?

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-13 20:18

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikkosssss (Post 1482404)

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1481793

Like this? Then scroll down 2 posts.

guy,you rule..it was that problem..thanks

ssahla

2015-09-13 20:31

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimos (Post 1482335)

That triggers the question, is there a wiki page or such where the functions of this little nice tool are documented? (without the need for rummaging through source code, I mean)

Don't know of a wiki page, but the long help (mcetool -H) already gives a better idea on many of the functions.

MINKIN2

2015-09-13 22:06

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Is anyone else noticing screen tear in the browser?

wormdrummer

2015-09-14 00:49

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by MINKIN2 (Post 1482425)

Is anyone else noticing screen tear in the browser?

Yes!... quite badly!

clovis86

2015-09-14 06:45

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

http://reviewjolla.blogspot.fr/2015/...-tools-by.html

more mcetool examples described here :)

Astaoth

2015-09-14 10:04

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Well, here is my feedback about covers and swips(not with SF 1.9). I don't undersand how you can find them intuitives. The first time I saw covers, I thought the icons were buttons, and there is no way to discover than there are swips with them (or by accident). However, with a good UI, it should not be required to read the manual to understand how to read it. So having buttons instead is a good idea, but it should be settings allowing users to choose if they want buttons or swip.

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-14 10:39

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

or maybe just insert a step on tutorial to let user know swipe of covers...

ste-phan

2015-09-14 10:56

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astaoth (Post 1482450)

Can you believe how many PC / tablet users I have to remind about right mouse click (or tap and hold) these days? Clearly not intuitive enough.

Should we really sit and wait for Apple to introduce the swipe covers actions?
Not saying having buttons is not good but personally I find a swipe over the whole area of the minimized application easier than a targeted tap on the small button area.

There is really no excuse for Jolla not to include both options in settings / gestures options.

pichlo

2015-09-14 11:08

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

You all three are right. Cover swipes are not mentioned in Tutorial. I also thought they were buttons when first saw them. The only place I learned about cover swipes was one casual comment on TJC.

I was tempted to say Apple would never introduce something as confusing as cover swipes but then, they introduced pinch to zoom, did they not? It is also not something I would think of first. When someone handed me an iPhone with a map on a street a few years ago, I looked for buttons to zoom in, until I gave up and asked.

I would prefer fully interactive covers myself. Not two swipes (or buttons), but as many as the developer deems fit. Like what we have on widgets on other platforms. That's what covers are, after all. Widgets in disguise.

ste-phan

2015-09-14 11:13

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1482466)

I would prefer fully interactive covers myself. Not two swipes (or buttons), but as many as the developer deems fit. Like what we have on widgets on other platforms. That's what covers are, after all. Widgets in disguise.

True and without the possibilities your describe above and Sailfish 2.0 running on a 7 inch ultra high resolution tablet display there will be not much going on the multitasking screen.

Pinch to zoom is really not intuitive and the worst thing about it is that you need to hold the device by 2 hands to do it comfortably. Yet I noticed people trying to pinch zoom when presented a printed, framed picture :D

parasemic

2015-09-14 15:40

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Can I tweak the doubletap for screen opening somehow? My phone opened itself in my pocket 10 times today and it's annoying the sh*t out of me...

This is definitely because of the "improved" doubletap in 2.0

pycage

2015-09-14 16:36

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by parasemic (Post 1482487)

You can disable the double tap to wakeup using mce tool.
http://reviewjolla.blogspot.de/2015/...-tools-by.html

Or you could blame the fabric in your trousers' pockets for absorbing infrared light.

Or you could get a case for the phone.

Feathers McGraw

2015-09-14 18:34

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by parasemic (Post 1482487)

I'm not an early adopter, just curious... does the phone not use the proximity sensor any more? I've never had a problem with the phone unlocking itself in a pocket up to v1.9, I wasn't aware it was something that needed improvement.

MisterMaster

2015-09-14 18:47

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw (Post 1482502)

It still uses the proximity sensor. I don't have any problems.

parasemic

2015-09-14 19:10

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

This was practically never an issue before, or opening to lockscreen sometimes simply didn't cause much hassle. Now it's a bit different when you can open app launcher without unlocking, and the media player controls behave like buttons and are EASILY triggered in the pocked.

aegis

2015-09-14 23:33

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1482466)

I was tempted to say Apple would never introduce something as confusing as cover swipes but then, they introduced pinch to zoom, did they not? It is also not something I would think of first. When someone handed me an iPhone with a map on a street a few years ago, I looked for buttons to zoom in, until I gave up and asked.

Apple are renowned for introducing hidden gestures that normal people don't know about but it doesn't effect their day to day use. Eg. The 5 finger pinch to multitask or double tapping on the home button in iOS.

In OSX the right click on the mouse is off by default and I regularly come across Mac users that have never switched it on. My other favourite is windows users trying to cut and paste files between folders in a single finder window instead of using spring folders.

And if you want a really hidden feature that you'd have to know about before you used it you've only got to look at 3DTouch on the iPhone 6s. That pops up a context sensitive menu whose contents change depending on how hard you press. It makes covers actions seem positively intuitive.

This could be easily solved by Jolla. Keep multiple cover actions but make them work as buttons if pressed or gestures if dragged. They do that for actions on full screen modal dialogs already - you can either click a top corner or drag the screen. Then just make the home screen navigable by edge swipes or dragging outside of covers.

pichlo

2015-09-15 06:34

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by parasemic (Post 1482487)

My phone opened itself in my pocket 10 times today and it's annoying the sh*t out of me...

You are the second person I hear mentioning this. I never thought this would be even possible, considering how fussy the double-tap unlock is. It usually takes me three to four tries to unlock it when I want to. Hitting just the right timing and all that jazz... And here we go, two members claiming that they managed to achieve such a feat by accident, one of them even multiple times per day. Miracles do happen, apparently.

romu	2015-09-15 07:37

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Hi,
Little question, is there a way to clean up the events the page as a whole? And not by type of events (email, sms, etc).

Manatus

2015-09-15 07:54

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1482536)

Actually I've had pocket doubletapping and interacting problem all the time with Jolla. It really depends on fabric and pocket looseness and how the phone moves or doesn't move in my pocket. No problems with new lockscreen for me though, and I suspect that it is only because the direction of lockscreen swipe has changed.

Manatus

2015-09-15 07:57

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by romu (Post 1482538)

Hi,
Little question, is there a way to clean up the events the page as a whole? And not by type of events (email, sms, etc).

There is a pulley menu visible when you are in the selection mode. It has (only) option to clear all events on a go. Probably not enabled in normal view to prevent accidentally triggering it, but I'd prefer it always visible.

smoku

2015-09-15 08:03

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by HtheB (Post 1481177)

Sailfish 2.0 looks very very nice!
Although, there are some things that bothers me, [...]
Seems like many of those can be patched yes...
In other words, this is Sailfish OS 2.0:

https://i.imgflip.com/qm0g0.jpg

I see I am not alone.
These are the things that got me off this boat.
http://abadcafe.pl/post/122926111638...ne-post-mortem

pichlo

2015-09-15 09:11

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoku (Post 1482542)

I see I am not alone.
These are the things that got me off this boat.
http://abadcafe.pl/post/122926111638...ne-post-mortem

As a former colleague used to say, opinions are like bumholes. Everybody has one. I agree with most of that article except for this bit:

Quote:

There was a lot of hope for well designed multitasking in SailfishOS, but with 2.0 release they are moving away from it, so It will never get finished. Thus Meh.

SFOS 2.0 is nothing but a glorified UI change. There are no major changes under the bonet, like e.g. 1.0.7 was with the Qt update. And the only UI change that has anything to do with multitasking is the ability to have more than 9 app covers on the home screen. So, in this regards, 2.0 is getting closer to proper multitasking, not "moving away from it". IOW, I have no idea what you are talking about.

To be honest, I was expecting more from 2.0. Not a different desktop, but a real change. For example, a complete refactoring with the primary focus on resource usage. For example I was expecting OOM disappearing completely or at least getting less frequent, not more.

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