maemo.org - Talk - Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)

- - Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=99017)

Dave999

2017-06-03 17:47

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1528749)

Well, X series fading out would only have had negative implication if the sony thing was planned to be some kind of break through attempt.
In that case they would have put much energy into a dead horse because the target audience needed for such endevour would yawn about outdated HW again and move on. correct?

But as Sony is a step stone on the way to juicey (paying) customers, it is a good thing that the device will fall in price soon so we as community can also profit by having the most fleshed out sfos device for rather cheap.

I do not think we (as end customers) are even primarily targeted by this device.
Making the community happy is a welcome by-product at this point.
Looks like the main plan is to finally show sfos on decent hardware because it is one thing to tell a client "Sure, it will behave much better on your high spec device than on this Aquafish i can show you here" than to actually demonstrate what you can do or already did.

And i can see another positive incentive.
As James wrote during meeting, it might raise Jollas interest to target even newer Sony modells.

Then...why should we support it?

mosen

2017-06-03 18:35

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

You mean Jolla?
Well i still think they are my best chance to have usable linux on recent HW in my pocket without tinkering too much for myself and i have hope either they will refocus on endusers in the far future if circumstances allow, or that they find a nice customer that is doing consumer devices with sfos and professional support.

Dave999

2017-06-03 21:08

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1528758)

No, not jolla. This port. Why should we support a port that Isnt meant for us. It wont turn out well.

97PBtiyYnxaJNbU738lL

2017-06-03 21:54

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1528366)

Don't you think jolla need to get their things in order before going after latest hw? I do.

While I don't need maximum functionality of the newest internal components, I would very much like to have the Gorilla Glass 5 and IP68 of the more recent models. I see that Xperia XZs is one of the phones for which Sony provides access to source code at https://developer.sonymobile.com/ope...and-resources/ If Jolla could give that phone the same level of functionality as is available on my n900, I would finally upgrade to a new phone.

mosen

2017-06-03 22:19

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1528762)

No, not jolla. This port. Why should we support a port that Isnt meant for us. It wont turn out well.

So what are the points in which it could not turn out well?
In Junes Jolla communique regarding sony i hope to have confirmed the following.
Most important sure is that Jolla treats the port like any other of the original devices. That is suggested by them calling it a community device which implies same procedure as with Jolla C.

Hardware support should still be offered by sony for obvious reasons.

Official release of the image at some time to help yourself if the device breaks while out of warranty time and simply flash a new (used) one and solve possibly limited amount of preflashed Xperias to be offered by jolla.

What (apart from the refund option) would you expect from this port / community device to make you feel good.

Dave999

2017-06-04 07:13

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

For my own part its the refund, putting that issue aside I feel and you also said it, it's not for us as enduserz. But a glorified port for show rooms.
This means it could have bad behavior, lack of functionality or worse in some areas.

A device included would make me feel good, because that comes with certain obligations, to see a fully implement port without hacks would be nice. But what I would like is a plan for this port for the future. And I'm not talking,"the goal is to make it available for all Sony Xperia" will it have it own team, updates how long will this be officially supported, how much division from core OS is done/will have to be done"

What I mean it won't turn out well is that it could lack things from start and jolla might not care/have time to fix it for enduser perfection/excpectation a month after release jolla will change direction and ignore it like the tablet project.

kinggo

2017-06-04 07:48

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1528762)

No, not jolla. This port. Why should we support a port that Isnt meant for us. It wont turn out well.

because that's the only way to get sailfish on something that isn't rock bottom POS from some "never heard of" company.
And unlike all other ports, I hope that everything will work on this one and that (in case of flash it on your own) I wont have to flash 234 specific version of some ROM just to flash sailfish on top. I hope that this will be jolla with better HW, with SONY logo and in an not so nice body.

meet.vino

2017-06-04 08:38

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1528767)

That is suggested by them calling it a community device which implies same procedure as with Jolla C

If it is a community device, will it not have alien dalvik support for Android apps?

mosen

2017-06-04 09:38

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

What makes you think that :eek:
All talk during irc meetings implies Sony Xperia X being the next Community Device in Jolla C style with all bells and whistles. Only we are missing official confirmation in a nicely elaborated blog post.

AFAIK only feature in question is sonys special camera sauce.
But it has been said by sailors that camera experience still will be the best off all current sfos devices.
I hope they include community ported devices into this comparison because it is quite easy to excel JP1, Jolla C and tablets cameras :D

meet.vino

2017-06-04 10:57

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

My assumption comes from a comment that someone called Koiruus made OnePlus forum in response to someone's request for alien dalvik support X in SFOS port for OnePlus X. He said "No alien dalvik in community ports as dalvik is licensed".

meet.vino

2017-06-04 10:58

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Can someone tell me what that means?

mosen

2017-06-04 11:35

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1528781)

Can someone tell me what that means?

Koiruus points out that ports made by members of the community have no Alien Dalvik on board due to licensing problem.
Only Jolla holds a license to ship their work with AD but can not grant it to 3rd parties. That is obviously due to myriad group not getting money because no one knows how many ports are out in the wild for example.

But we have a wording issue here.
Technically, jolla does "port" (verb) sfos to the Xperia device, eg. doing hardware adaption and such.
But (if confirmed via blog post) the result is not a Community Port (general name for devices ported by community) but a official Jolla release with all licensing Jolla can offer for own releases.

mosen

2017-06-04 11:54

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

And to paint it black:

One possibillity still is, even if Jolla releases the image, we could end up with user flashable XX that does not contain AD due to forementioned licensing and tracebility problem to pay for all Dalviks in use by selfporters.

Thats why i strongly hope jolla will not offer the port for free because it will propably lack AD in that case (speculation alert).

Edit, to make it clearer, in my worstcase we could end up with a (limited?) number of official preflashed Xperias sold by jolla, and an image you can flash to self owned xperias but with all license problems of regular community ports.

Dave999

2017-06-04 13:48

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Pay for the port? How do you mean to set that up? Poeple would take it as downpayment for tablet refund or just share it for any reason. Not a good move. People might want to try it first, not use it. Hope jolla is smarter and don't try a stunt like that. Luckily I'm pretty sure it won't happen. :D

meet.vino

2017-06-04 15:12

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

I wouldn't mind to pay for it if it means official support and regular updates.

Dave999

2017-06-04 15:23

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1528792)

I wouldn't mind to pay for it if it means official support and regular updates.

Again that's the issue.

pexi	2017-06-04 16:45

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

There could always be both the open version without AD and the licensed version.

Dave999

2017-06-04 16:48

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pexi (Post 1528795)

There could always be both the open version without AD and the licensed version.

Sounds good. Maybe even three or more. One for poeple that don't want to pay, one for poeple that wants to pay, one for poeple that wants refund. One for poeple that wants updates, and then one for ordinary people. ;)

meet.vino

2017-06-04 17:27

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pexi (Post 1528795)

There could always be both the open version without AD and the licensed version.

I wish it was like purchasing a software for pc online.. Pay for it and download the official software.. Isn't that possible?

liya	2017-06-04 18:09

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

There is a port for oneplus x, but there is no alien dalvik. So I'll wait for Sony phones with Sailfish OS version, and if there's an alien dalvik I'll buy it.

nthn	2017-06-04 18:17

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1528799)

I wish it was like purchasing a software for pc online.. Pay for it and download the official software.. Isn't that possible?

Yes, but then only one person would have to upload the files and everyone else could install them, without paying for it. The only way to prevent this is with Digital Restrictions Management, but as the name implies that would be malicious.

gaelic

2017-06-04 18:35

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nthn (Post 1528803)

Why, why, why?

That's just a risk to take. And on the phones are all the files available anyways and already found their ways to ports including non-licenced AD.

DRM just means problems for normal users.

mosen

2017-06-04 21:24

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Has anyone gotten sued over hacking AD onto ports? No.
DRM is the last thing i expect because there is no harm to expect for either Jolla or Myriad.
It's not like they are sitting on huge sinecure they have to defend like when the Music and Movie Industry started to fight windmills with DRM 20 years ago.
And for the future, the port is limited to one phone that fades out as we heard.

They should bring a system in place that makes it easy to pay, supporters will do.
And no one is hurt if someone who would not install if he had to pay, does because he has the means to do so out of curiousity.
Any reach is good for jolla.

No idea what they will actually do though.

bocephus

2017-06-05 10:07

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HtheB (Post 1528434)

I've been using a Sony Xperia XA for about a month now, let me tell you something:

...

I'm actually pretty happy with my rooted Sony XA.

Android fanboyism on TMO? I never thought I'd see the day...

lantern

2017-06-05 15:23

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

BTW, where did this stuff about single-sim came from?
Sony's github has sources for both boards - f5121 and f5122:
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/device-sony-suzu

r0kk3rz

2017-06-05 18:09

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lantern (Post 1528834)

BTW, where did this stuff about single-sim came from?
Sony's github has sources for both boards - f5121 and f5122:
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/device-sony-suzu

From jolla themselves, they said they're working on the single sim model.

http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-m...09.00.log.html

09:22:42 <jlassila> Our first project is with the Xpreria X device, further devices are still to be agreed and announced. Aim is to support several Xpreria series devices.

09:23:56 <occirol> which model of Xperia X ?
09:24:12 <veskuh> occirol: We start with Single SIM version
09:24:25 <veskuh> occirol: F5121

HtheB

2017-06-06 02:04

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocephus (Post 1528820)

Android fanboyism on TMO? I never thought I'd see the day...

Just because I'm being happy with an Android device, doesn't mean that I am a fanboy.. :confused:
I was a Maemo 5 fanboy, they broked every promise
then I was a Harmattan fanboy, same story again.
Then I was a Sailfish fanboy, but then again, the CEO suddenly left off and many promises broke once again....

again, I'm not an Android fanboy, but after some tweaks (just like I had to do on Fremantle, Harmattan and Sailfish OS) it is a nice daily driver for me.

Edit: the phone that I'm using now, is the Xperia XA, next to my Jolla C. If Jolla will port Sailfish OS to the XA, then I'm still be able to use Sailfish OS on my Sony XA... fanboyism??? not at all :)

Dave999

2017-06-06 09:46

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Any chance we will see a duel boot on the x? Both sail and android?

bnwg	2017-06-06 13:16

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1528882)

Any chance we will see a duel boot on the x? Both sail and android?

Just curious. Why would you like it to be dual boot?

To me, if the AD is good enough to have all essential android apps running properly within Sailfish OS, I don't need to boot into android.

I missed the smoothness of MeeGo from my N9 but too bad it can't be used as daily driver.

Dave999

2017-06-06 13:20

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnwg (Post 1528895)

I don't now, but how can you assume that when you have absolutely no clue what will be included in port or even the quality of the port or how support will looks like?

bnwg	2017-06-06 13:30

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1528896)

I don't now, but how can you assume that when you have absolutely no clue what will be included in port or even the quality of the port or how support will looks like?

I understand what you mean. Dual boot into android sounds like more as backup plan just in case.

If there's only one device as daily driver it will be more safe to have it handy.

romu	2017-06-06 15:00

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Hello,
Small question to people who should know: once the port to the X done, how difficult it is to port to the X Compact?

I ask this because I wonder if I shouldn't buy a X Compact while we still can find some in stores

Thanks.

robthebold

2017-06-07 04:01

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1528882)

Any chance we will see a duel boot on the x? Both sail and android?

There is MultiROM for xperia X. I don't see that their is support to install sfos as a secondary rom, but it might not hurt to ask nicely if it could be added. The fact that official support for sailfish on the device might make such a request more likely to be honored .

https://forum.xda-developers.com/xpe...mance-t3476565

ed. wait, hold the phone, that's MultiROM for xperia x performance, Sorry, this might be a false alarm ...

mosen

2017-06-07 11:11

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

TWRP is available for Xperia X but only recovery, no multiboot afaics.

meet.vino

2017-06-07 16:01

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Excuse me for this totally unrelated question to this thread, but is it possible to port Sailfish to Mi 5, or Mi 6, OnePlus 5, Sharp Aquos Mini SH-M03 or Nokia 6? I ask this because, I want to know if Sony devices are my only option.. I don't want a 5.5 inch screen.. OnePlus 5 would be an exception though.. And if by any chance OnePlus 5 is smaller than 5.5, it would be a bonanza.. On the other hand, if the answer is a no, will Xperia Z5 compact be one of the supported devices or does the support only start from Xperia X?

Dave999

2017-06-07 16:20

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1528936)

Great questions. Send them to jolla. :D

As I understand it its the X only. No compact, no super X, no nothing just the X. Not the old x. Only the new One with Xperia first and no letter after the X!

Jolla told us... comments Will be announced before end of this month.

kinggo

2017-06-07 16:34

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1528936)

Excuse me for this totally unrelated question to this thread, but is it possible to port Sailfish to Mi 5, or Mi 6, OnePlus 5, Sharp Aquos Mini SH-M03 or Nokia 6? I ask this because, I want to know if Sony devices are my only option.. I don't want a 5.5 inch screen.. OnePlus 5 would be an exception though.. And if by any chance OnePlus 5 is smaller than 5.5, it would be a bonanza.. On the other hand, if the answer is a no, will Xperia Z5 compact be one of the supported devices or does the support only start from Xperia X?

I do. And unfortunately, xperia X does not have one. :(

meet.vino

2017-06-07 18:12

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

How do I update to 2.1.1.12? I am running 2.1.0.11 and the Jolla 1 is almost unusable.. The phone is not only extremely slow, but the apps kind of minimise themselves and I have to keep clicking on it and it might open on the 10th or 15th time.. It wasnt this bad before I updated to 2.1.0.11.. I am just hoping that the next update will fix this..:(:(:(

aspergerguy

2017-06-07 18:41

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1528941)

How do I update to 2.1.1.12? I am running 2.1.0.11 and the Jolla 1 is almost unusable.

You have probably already seen this post: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=255

However it sounds like something already going fundamentally wrong with your existing OS version as it is and hardly a time to try updating. When did you last carry out a "btrfs balance" upon it?

If you insist upon experimenting search out Aurajoki thread and you will get the idea.

meet.vino

2017-06-07 18:50

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

"btrfs-balancer balance" ? I have done it once.. I remember reading somewhere it has to be done many times for it to work.. I have deleted some files and will balance again.. Thank you aspergerguy!

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