Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Apparently they had enough money to buy some Jolla tablets from the Chinese reseller. I speculate that the "surprise" is they will send the Lastu case to the remaining tablet backers (if the cases are in Jolla's possession, that is).

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Hope they release instructions so you can print your own Jolla tablet on paper and fold it a little and then you can put that inside the Lastu case and only your imagination is the limit. Living the dream.

Like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuGU0Ftz5RI

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Intex phone, or tablet from some other manufacturer with SailfishOS or with Android+Sailfish launcher? Or a voucher to buy some brand's products from web shop?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Gonna be annoyed if the special surprise is a t-shirt that says 'he's the last one ->'.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

And still there are people who donated money through Indiegogo asking for a refund. Incredible! I suggest to those people: go to a fair, play a bunch of games and if you don't win anything, just demand your money back! Failproof!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Well i can only hope the batch is big enough that Jolla is compelled to deliver updates in future. Otherwise i fear the tablet will render quite useless....

Just think of some 500 have a tablet and a future blog post reads No more updates. Perfect fiasco :confused:

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

It's not they same thing.

We have been over this atleast 245 times but why not take it one more time.

1. Jolla is an entity with a already in product in market.
2. jolla had around 200 employees, with there own webshop.
3. jolla sold the idea of a tablet.
4. jolla used stretch goals to give extra money.
5. jolla sold the tablet in their web shop.

given these points + the fact that jolla focued more on the OS rather then finish the tablet makes it close to a scam and jolla can hide behind the word Crowdfunding. But in reality its a fraud, scam, trick or ... or what every you like to call. Sure we invested and I dont really expect the money back but I will always hold it against jolla and the Management behind it.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

~100 developer models + ~200 first batch + ~1000 second batch = ~1300 tablets

And there is possibility that some of Jolla's partners will make a tablet in the future. Thus I would expect updates for at least three years.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

My guess is:

- Refund for those who want it
- New Intex phone with discount of sum contributed with some Jolla exclusive add in

Remains to be seen how big the batch is, or if I will be one of those offered. Don't know what to do about it though...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Lets guess! :)
Mine is:
-Refund for those who want it^^
-Sailfishos license for community ported phones

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yep, and you and others still refuse to understand how Indiegogo crowdfunding works. It is not a purchase of any sort of product. Jolla were explicit, and specifically stated on their Indigogo campaign page(s) under the Availability & Delivery section:

Disclaimer: Delivery of rewards/perks are subject to best efforts and not guaranteed.

1. So what?
2. So what?
3. So what?
4. So what?
5. Yep, these people who purchased from the webshop have a legitimate case for a refund - but that's nothing to do with Indiegogo.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

if that is True, then my support is not a guarantee either so we are even :D

5. So then you agree that its a scam for the webshopers or fraud or trick or ... until jolla do a refund to this purchasers from the shop. So then its a fraud...its not like you can wait to ship like 2 weeks or more.

doesn't really matter since we are all their supports, Webshopers or IIGs. I don't like when customers are used!

Refund all or ship all plz!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

So indiegogo should be treated like a gambling site, no under 18s and appropriate warnings before you start.

There was a time I would go through indiegogo and think ' that's cool, what a great idea!', now I just think 'not gonna happen, waste of money'
So maybe jolla has saved me money!

As for the secret surprise, I'm guessing $100 off the Indian phone.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Note: "However, you can be sure you will not end up empty handed."
I guess it will be unmatched/unlike Jolla mittens.
Think it would be a nice idea to give tablet to the most eager ones and refund to those who given up Jolla tablet, making more people happy.
Hope I am in next batch for tablets myself (joined campaign the first day).
Almost any outcome is better than it looked like one month ago.
:)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Surprise!

We've used our Chinese sourcing experience and we're pround to announce Jolla "Antti"-gravity hoverboards*



*non-exploding batteries extra**
** batteries not available

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Coming "Soon TM"

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

10 euros? Are you sure you did not misspell 10 percent? ;)

This is yet another demonstration of the deep misunderstanding some people have. How many times does this have to be repeated? The tablet and the phone run the same OS! Sure there are two different builds for two different CPU architectures but that is no big job for an automated build (Jolla does use those, right?). The only extra effort is testing on different screen sizes but since there are only two and they want to support OEM devices, they will have to run those anyway.

So that. You are right, they are not legally obliged to deliver the IGG tablets. But you should also know that there is more to running a business than the bare minimum you are legally obliged. In business, it matters more what people think you are worth than what you are actually worth. Reputation is more valuable than machines, factories, the state of your bank account or the portfolio of your products.

So you are right, Jolla is not legally obliged to deliver the damn tablets or compensate the backers. But can they afford not to?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Morally and ethically...
they can't afford not to deliver or compensate the backers.

Realistically ..
Fiscally ...
Can they afford to?

I think there wasn't enough fine print here.
Who (in their right sane mind) would have expectations of delivery of ANYTHING ...
or feel they are owed ANYTHING....
If it isn't spelled out that they WILL be owed something for ...
and remember this....
DONATING...
People expecting a return on a donation...
whether it be a product or a refund..
should be realistic.

It's either A, B, C, or D

If it is A-
Crowdfunding...
That is a murky legally obligated nightmare of fuzziness...only cleared up with distinct language of obligation.
(This pretty rudimentarily put...but...it is the gist...)
ie- Stage 1 - "IF ...we get enough money ..those investing will be 1st on the short list when we get to stage 2...production..." ,
"We have enough funds..now we are aiming to make it to stage 2..production...now we are obliged to follow through with producing product for those who donated to make this possible...or ...refund..." ...etc

If it is B-
Pre-ordering ...
there is (hopefully spelled out in official legalese...if there isn't anything stated officially as to the security of your investment ...fool, you... for investing..still....there may be the option for legal recourse ...) inherent corporate liability to produce or refund. Failure on the project / corp end to produce either product or refund MAY be considered fraud.

If it is C-
Sales ...there is an (obvious) inherent corporate liability to produce or refund.
If the corp reneg's on it's obligations to it's customers in this regard it is outright fraud.

If it is D-
Donation....
with no guaranteed statement of refund or product in the event of internal fiscal upheaval...then caveat emptor. (It IS after all a donation expectations should be realistic)
You have donated funds to a sinkhole.

The obligations of a project / company to it's investors is pretty straightforward.
Soooo
the real question is...
which realm does the Jolla tablet issue fall under?
A, B, C, or D?

That will dictate the strength of a case for the investors..to either:

-pursue legal action (a class action lawsuit would make the most sense rather than every individual fighting for recompense on their own)...to force the obligation of reception of the goods they paid for or compensation..

-pursue the reception of their goods they have put money into for...

-pursue the reception of compensatory refunds (minus what work was done to try to achieve project completion...parts, wages, all those costs....) .

-or abandon attempts at pursuit of any kind if the obligations of the project / corp are not clearly spelled out ...and / or if it was clearly stated monies put to said project were classed as "Donation" with no inherent obligation to the donator...

Where is the fine print?
Where is the legalese?
Is there any at all?
Is there any official project / corp. statement on file / or public record stating their obligations at any point in the past which they must be accountable for?
If any one knows ...
post it or link it...
It would go a long way to understanding the investors rights here.

Murky-Murky-Murky.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Well, every time Jolla post another blog post without giving me tablet or refund I'm buying another apple product during 2016.

Hope they give me a tablet soon ;)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Midsummer Night's Dream?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yey, that will show them!

Endso, I agree there is no easy answer. Tabletgate has already cost them dearly and will cost them even more if they build themselves a reputation of "that company that collected money for 12000 tablets and delivered only 300". Who will want to deal with them after that? Things like that can tarnish a company forever and even cost the company's life if they do not handle it carefully. Which is to say, completely unlike every other PR disaster they got themselves in before.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yeah, they will cry me a river ;) Or not. who cares.

Let's say they lose me and I influence 20 people, that influence 20 people and influence 10 people that influence 5 people, that.. you get it ;)

I rather see Stskeeps building his own OS and release a Hw.Keyboard device like neo900.

Until then...I will order a fPhone...
http://code.fairphone.com/projects/fp-osos/index.html
http://shop.fairphone.com/fairphone-2-tp.html

transparent...my first transparent phone :D

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

+1 to what pichlo , dave have said ...
Personally I would not invest in such a shaky venture.
And those I know locally I have advised a while ago ...not to either...
until there is proper support...
proper accountability ...
at very very least...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Not producing and delivering a tablet would be ethically wrong and would make jolla known as scammer who screwed its customers.

There really isn't a honest way to back off from the commitment to deliver the tablet.

They have got the money, more than requested even, pluss the perks, the tablets are produced. The only way out of this venture is to invest some more and deliver. Jolla should send invites to all backers to recount how many still want the tablet and produce at least that many. Not refunding is legal and understandable, as the devices are really produced and money spent, just that someone at jolla hugely underestimated the costs or some of the money was taken and used for something else. Either way Jolla has the obligation to deliver.


But if the intex device is with good spec, would i accept a phone instead of a tablet from jolla? I don't know. I'd better not paying for a device i have not asked for, there should be something appealing to me, an os, a good screen, then i might take it and throw jolla 1 to the drawer.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

It ocurred to me that with this deal, the time is actually on jollas side. Not having money to produce more tablets is understandable for anybody, and after one more year of the tablet saga the device would be obsolite and pointless to even get or produce. I guess that what jolla is doing - produce as many you can, deliver some, buy some time, let the device obsolites by itself, compensate others with special offers.

edit: But jollas hardware company? What about that? They are to produce more branded devices, aren't they? It really does not profit them to let this whole venture to die without continuation. Jtab2 or upgraded jtab1 should be on the drawing table already by now, if any work is still done on this side of Jolla.(?)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Indiegogo is a donation-based crowdfunding site. It is D. There's no speculation about this. They don’t allow contributors to become an investor or a shareholder. It is why any physical product that you might get is referred to as a reward or perk. Indigogo campaigns cannot sell you anything.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I'm well aware of that. The point I was addressing was Dave's assertion that Jolla are practicing fraud or close to it:

I was refuting the argument that led to the above statement

And again: no, we didn't. We donated money to Jolla. You cannot invest via Indiegogo

I am sure Jolla will take action to reduce the pain that some people are feeling (they've already said as much, and that also ensures they meet one of the other Indiegogo conditions, namely about "reaching a mutually satisfactory resolution")

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Ok. Lets say some of It is true.

1. Company A asks for money for product A and is funded with 4xx%.
2 Doner gives money
3. Company A takes money and skip Product A and use it for product B
4. As a result there is nothing to ship and money is gone.
5. How could any doner, investor or customer trust Compony A in the future?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

All good, Dave, but... doner? ;)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

As they have said before, it's up to investors to decide if Jolla will continue in HW business at all. SW and HW businesses have been more or less difficult to bond together with limited resources and so far Jolla has burned their fingers pretty badly with both devices launched. Jolla wanted to launch Jolla branded devices still, so they suggested the split to two different companies but it looks like the investors want to ditch the HW manufacturing altogether as Jolla is too small player to compete against the chinese dumping devices to market. If they can produce only a small batch of tablets, it's likely they just get those that are already manufactured and assemble the rest from existing inventory of parts and that's about it, no more Jolla branded devices (or if there is, they are most likely "badge engineered"). As they have lost some of the crew and are tight on resources, it looks like sensible choice as there is Intex and other deals in pipeline.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

No...kebab. 2016 is the year of healthy food.
Noun
donor

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/donor

Ok, so I can't say Doner ?
Donator might be better then...whatS the word for the one that do the donations?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You provided the answer yourself in the link. Donor is fine. So is donator. Donor is more common. The last vowel is o in both cases, not e.

Happy new year!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Perhaps a nice Devon Red?
http://www.sandfordorchards.co.uk/wp...ed-298x548.jpg

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

i ordered my jtab from the jolla webstore.

i'd accept the refund, but i'd much rather receive an Intex Sailfish phone instead.

i [want] to help them with my money.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I guess it mosty comes down to whether Jolla gave its "best" to deliver tablet or did it spread itself too thin using funding on other projects...

Also. Anyone have an idea how big a "small batch" is? How do they decide who gets one. First come first serve?

Happy New Years!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Their previous "small batch" was about 200 units, so it would seem likely to be something on the same scale. For shipping order, they have been adhering rigorously to the order in which people made contributions on the Indiegogo campaign.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

We saw maybe 100-200 surface on Taobao, so my guess is the "small batch" are those devices but reflashed back to Sailfish. From what we've seen this means they will be 32gb devices, not the 64gb ones.

This makes a reasonable amount of sense, because the first wave was likely a final pre-production batch to ensure quality before running 1000+ devices off. So this batch will be the same thing but for the 32gb variant.

I find it unlikely that a new batch would actually get manufactured, only to stop after a few hundred. Clearly relations between the manufacturer and Jolla have broken down and so making more tablets would require finding a new manufacturer and starting the process all over again.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Wasn't it about 1000? ISTR two lots, one of about 80 units an another one of 1000. Minus those already sold.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Could be much more. I was just checking Taobao a few minutes ago, and found these listings:

http://world.taobao.com/item/525258878357.htm

http://world.taobao.com/item/524680984224.htm

http://world.taobao.com/item/524763794851.htm

http://world.taobao.com/item/525246736574.htm

http://world.taobao.com/item/525529259229.htm

http://world.taobao.com/item/525733298630.htm

http://world.taobao.com/item/525505795172.htm

I have no clue if all these entries in Taobao's site refer to different stocks of tablets or to the same stock, but if they are all separate, the grand total available right now from their site would be 3748 tablets. At a price of about 150 US dollars each, they're quite a deal as well...

EDIT: Interesting! The Taobao site actually provides details on how the devices are selling. So, 19 tablets have been sold from the first link, and 7 tablets from the second link. No other links show any tablets sold. The first tablet was sold on December 16th. Not sure if there are any customer comments available...

EDIT 2: From the description on one of the links, It does look like wherever these guys have been getting these tablets, their supply may have been cut off. Also, Jolla is apparently not supporting Sailfish on these devices, so they have switched to setting them up with Android. Here's the Google translation of the comment:

EDIT 3: Some customer comments (albeit mangled badly by Google translate):

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I would like to email the CEO of Jolla with a business proposal . Does anyone here have his email address?