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-   -   Let's talk Nokia stock. Really. (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85965)

Lumiaman 2012-11-29 11:08
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Beggars can't be choosers. Nokia fell way behind, and something have to give. They are selling at lower prices to penetrate the market. Nothing wrong there

specc 2012-11-29 13:22
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1299627)
Selling at a loss or even a razor thin gross margin does not benefit a manufacturer.

Remember the 'ecosystem' means nothing to NOKIA now, Elop gifted all that to Microsoft. NOKIA need to make healthy margins on hardware sales, either that or they need to give up manufacturing altogether and just become a design house.
it's not only about what and how you are selling, it's also about what the competitors loose because of your actions. Every Lumia sold is one less iPhone/android sold and one person less in the apple/android ecosystem and one more in WP. When every android phone manufacturer except Samsung is loosing money, this means a whole lot. Again, the big picture is what counts.

switch-hitter 2012-11-29 14:02
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1299633)
They are selling at lower prices to penetrate the market. Nothing wrong there
They are having a fire sale because WP7 is so undesirable and has sold in such minimal quantities that they are now stuck with inventory that is worth less than it cost them to build. It has nothing to do with penetrating the market, it's about trying to turn redundant stock back into cash even if they have to take a hit doing it.

Of course this was an entirely predictable scenario, no manufacturer has made a successful WP7 device. Not even Samsung could do it.

I hope for NOKIA's sake WP8 is considerably better than it's predecessor, NOKIA can't continue to struggle along with an incompetent software partner like this.

I still have yet to see any WPx device in the wild!

switch-hitter 2012-11-29 14:14
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1299673)
it's not only about what and how you are selling, it's also about what the competitors loose because of your actions. Every Lumia sold is one less iPhone/android sold and one person less in the apple/android ecosystem and one more in WP. When every android phone manufacturer except Samsung is loosing money, this means a whole lot. Again, the big picture is what counts.
NOKIA does not exist to sell hardware at a loss in order to make Microsoft's 'ecosystem' more viable.

shinogami 2012-11-29 15:28
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1299696)
NOKIA does not exist to sell hardware at a loss in order to make Microsoft's 'ecosystem' more viable.
Are you so sure it's Nokia that is selling it at a loss? Like, no money has exchanged hands between Nokia and this Phones4U retailer?

switch-hitter 2012-11-29 15:46
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinogami (Post 1299728)
Are you so sure it's Nokia that is selling it at a loss? Like, no money has exchanged hands between Nokia and this Phones4U retailer?
It's not just one retailer; Tesco's had them, Asda's had them, Carphone Warehouse has had them, Phones4U's had them... It's a mass dumping.

specc 2012-11-29 18:36
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1299696)
NOKIA does not exist to sell hardware at a loss in order to make Microsoft's 'ecosystem' more viable.
Only Samsung makes money on Android phones. The rest exists exclusively to make the Android ecosystem viable. 99% of app developers exist only to make the Android ecosystem viable, they make no money there.

Nokia needs WP to grow to be able to sell devices. MS needs Nokia to sell devices to be able to grow. How hard is that to understand? they are dependent on each other. The most important thing is to get devices out there. They have done a poor job so far with overpriced mediocre devices (super user functionality, the best, but overpriced). Android devices gives more value per € in peoples eyes.

switch-hitter 2012-11-29 19:47
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1299808)
Only Samsung makes money on Android phones. The rest exists exclusively to make the Android ecosystem viable.
How does a company survive if it doesn't make a profit? To suggest a company 'exists exclusively to make the Android ecosystem viable' is laughable nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1299808)
99% of app developers exist only to make the Android ecosystem viable, they make no money there.
To developers of free apps the user is not the customer but the commodity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1299808)
Nokia needs WP to grow to be able to sell devices. MS needs Nokia to sell devices to be able to grow. How hard is that to understand? they are dependent on each other.
NOKIA are only dependent on Microsoft because their Trojan horse CEO made it so. If they had remained independent they wouldn't be in such a desperate situation now. It was partnering with Microsoft that put them into the death spiral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1299808)
The most important thing is to get devices out there. They have done a poor job so far with overpriced mediocre devices (super user functionality, the best, but overpriced).
Samsung used much the same hardware for their WP7 devices as they did for their Android devices. It's clear what the problem is even if you don't want to admit it.

Getting 'devices out there' wont benefit NOKIA in any way unless they make a profit on them.

Lumiaman 2012-11-29 22:16
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1299841)
How does a company survive if it doesn't make a profit? To suggest a company 'exists exclusively to make the Android ecosystem viable' is laughable nonsense.

To developers of free apps the user is not the customer but the commodity.

NOKIA are only dependent on Microsoft because their Trojan horse CEO made it so. If they had remained independent they wouldn't be in such a desperate situation now. It was partnering with Microsoft that put them into the death spiral.

Samsung used much the same hardware for their WP7 devices as they did for their Android devices. It's clear what the problem is even if you don't want to admit it.

Getting 'devices out there' wont benefit NOKIA in any way unless they make a profit on them.
I know your solution: Go back to Symbian!

Lumiaman 2012-11-29 22:16
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1299691)
They are having a fire sale because WP7 is so undesirable and has sold in such minimal quantities that they are now stuck with inventory that is worth less than it cost them to build. It has nothing to do with penetrating the market, it's about trying to turn redundant stock back into cash even if they have to take a hit doing it.

Of course this was an entirely predictable scenario, no manufacturer has made a successful WP7 device. Not even Samsung could do it.

I hope for NOKIA's sake WP8 is considerably better than it's predecessor, NOKIA can't continue to struggle along with an incompetent software partner like this.

I still have yet to see any WPx device in the wild!
I have seen quite a few in the wild. Where do you reside


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