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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Competitors (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85001)

shinogami 2012-06-21 15:19
Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue (Post 1225215)
Based on the fact that the core has changed, if developers were expected to write for WP7.8 then there would be little reason to change it to a Windows 8 shared core. At this stage MS have confirmed native code support is NOT supported by WP7.8 so no you cannot write code in a language both WP7.8 and WP8 understand. Some (I expect a lot) will write native code for WP8 and WP7.8 will be sh*t out of luck. If you believe otherwise then good luck.
Again, the native code enables the use of the hardware enhancements, but to the vast majority of apps that is meaningless. Just because writing in native code is possible, doesn't mean that writing in shared code is not. If that was the case, then how come WP8 devices can run apps written for WP7.5? So, I guess our biggest disagreement is to what degree developers move on to writing their apps in the native code. You expect a lot, I expect that only apps that truly require the enhancements (like big games) will be written so. Either way, this doesn't affect me in any way. I'm planning to stay with my N9 for many years to come. All I want is PR 1.3 with bug fixes and that somebody capable of porting google skymap to MeeGo would do so..

abill_uk 2012-06-21 15:36
Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 
ALL Nokia mobiles will be obsolete soon except for the WP devices that will be very heavily supported by Microsoft, those who stay with anything Nokia built will only maybe have this community for support but if this goes down then that's it you move on.

Those who swear allegiance to Nokia now can only do so for WP nothing else because nothing else will ever be built.

Those who go on about this crap N9 are dreaming and is another dejavu as in the N900 and we all know what has happened with that device.

Good luck you going to need it.

Cue 2012-06-21 15:48
Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinogami (Post 1225221)
Again, the native code enables the use of the hardware enhancements, but to the vast majority of apps that is meaningless. Just because writing in native code is possible, doesn't mean that writing in shared code is not. If that was the case, then how come WP8 devices can run apps written for WP7.5? So, I guess our biggest disagreement is to what degree developers move on to writing their apps in the native code. You expect a lot, I expect that only apps that truly require the enhancements (like big games) will be written so. Either way, this doesn't affect me in any way. I'm planning to stay with my N9 for many years to come..
Native code support does not simply enable the use of the hardware enhancements. You can get hardware enhancements without native code support. Native code support is not a language itself, it means developers have low level access. For example that means programs written in things like Adobe Air, Unity, Unreal, etc will not run on WP7.8 and would require a complete rewrite.

It is highly likely that apps will be made with cross platform tools, history already shows it, especially with a low install base. It is highly unlikely that somebody will target WP7.8 specifically since the platform is a legacy platform where the user base is small and no longer growing.

Quote:
Just because writing in native code is possible, doesn't mean that writing in shared code is not. If that was the case, then how come WP8 devices can run apps written for WP7.5?
Think of it this way, Maemo can run WebOS native apps, doesn't mean the Maemo community are writing WebOS apps for Maemo. They would just write a Maemo app. WP7.8 is a legacy platform and very few people will target it specifically. It has nothing to do with new hardware.

shinogami 2012-06-21 16:09
Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue (Post 1225236)
It is highly likely that apps will be made with cross platform tools, history already shows it, especially with a low install base. It is highly unlikely that somebody will target WP7.8 specifically since the platform is a legacy platform where the user base is small and no longer growing.
But if apps are made with cross platform tools, they're not specifically targeting WP7.8 phones, but both WP7.8 and WP8 phones. Since the vast majority of apps don't need the enhancements, I don't see why the developers would make their apps specifically for WP8, i.e. why would they throw away their current know how just because they can? Now, over time, this will likely chance if the Windows 8/Windows phone 8 platform takes off, but that's not in the near future, and as I pointed out, by the time this scenario happens (or not), it would be the time to upgrade your phone anyway..

soryuuha 2012-06-21 16:14
Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 
am I late to enter this thread before Lumiaman?

Cue 2012-06-21 16:17
Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinogami (Post 1225250)
But if apps are made with cross platform tools, they're not specifically targeting WP7.8 phones, but both WP7.8 and WP8 phones. Since the vast majority of apps don't need the enhancements, I don't see why the developers would make their apps specifically for WP8, i.e. why would they throw away their current know how just because they can?
No, because the cross platform tools will not work on WP7.8 because cross platform tool developers do not have native code support. App developers cannot use a cross platform tool to target WP7.8 because the cross-platform tool does not and cannot support WP7.8, the developer would have to rewrite apps for WP7.8 specifically. By "throwing away their current know how" they would be trying to save themselves time and money.

shinogami 2012-06-21 16:25
Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue (Post 1225258)
No, because the cross platform tools will not work on WP7.8 because cross platform tool developers do not have native code support. App developers cannot use a cross platform tool to target WP7.8 because the cross-platform tool does not and cannot support WP7.8, the developer would have to rewrite apps for WP7.8 specifically. By "throwing away their current know how" they would be trying to save themselves time and money.
Aren't cross platform tools the very same tools people use today to write apps for WP7.5? Remember, apps written for WP7.5 will also work with WP8. ;) The only scenario in which the developers will need to specifically target WP7.8 is when they first specifically target WP8. You're assuming most developers will immediately move to the new tools. To me, that just seems unlikely (even for the fact that for a while at least WP7.8 will still make the vast majority of WP devices). But yeah, as I said before, I don't really know anything about software development.

mikecomputing 2012-06-21 16:30
Re: Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorul2 (Post 1224811)
The last 3 "Flagships" From Nokia..N900, N9, Lumia 900 have the same history, everyone in this forum knows this to be true. Why would a new customer look at WP7.8 as a "compromise" when

Update: While Microsoft was keen to announce that 7.x apps will run on Windows Phone 8, ZDNet has just confirmed, via a statement from Redmond, that apps built for the new platform won't be backwards compatible:

"New applications compiled specifically for Windows Phone 8 will not be made available for Windows Phone 7.x devices."

.
Too be fair: Isnt this also valid when Android upgrades to newer versions?

Wasn't this also the same for Maemo5 vs Maemo6 and so on?

(everybody here knows I dont like WP but still. I dont see ANY company that is backcompatible.

shinogami 2012-06-21 16:32
Re: Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1225266)
Wasn't this also the same for Maemo5 vs Maemo6 and so on?
As I already pointed out, it was in fact worse for Maemo since the old apps were never compatible with the new OS. Same story when Symbian moved to the touch UI thingy.

Cue 2012-06-21 16:33
Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinogami (Post 1225263)
Aren't cross platform tools the very same tools people use today to write apps for WP7.5? Remember, apps written for WP7.5 will also work with WP8. ;) The only scenario in which the developers will need to specifically target WP7.8 is when they first specifically target WP8.
Not really, people write WP7 apps specifically and often they don't bother because of the low install base. MS often has to partner with them to allow low level access or pay them to rewrite their app.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/te...book.html?_r=1
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...ith-apple.html

which platform is missing from these lists? Why do you think that is?
http://www.unrealengine.com/platforms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Integrated_Runtime
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_(game_engine)


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