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Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436980)

Best of luck to you. I've been lucky with my Jolla, fingers crossed it stays that way :)

am sure i'll have it back and itll be fixed. this always seems to happen to me. I break my current phone. I go back to my N900 and I reminisce lol.

I can't wait till a full working port for the Nexus 5 is available tbh. Thats Jolla Phone 2 for me

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436975)

There's really nothing to talk about, there. I already said what I have to say: that you can't have a *discussion* at a *meeting* when there's only one side there to discuss with. You disagree, okay, but from what I've seen you're in the minority.

The discussion was possible between people that were on meeting, but instead of discussing mediation Stefano with others from meeting has chosen to attack and escalate the conflict between me and Jolla even more. Once again, his aware decision as a manager.

I don't feel I'm in minority (maybe among Jolla employees and fanatics). Besides that is one of logical fallacies you just have made:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

Speaking on different opinions, Janne from MyNokiaBlog:

Quote:

I'm not RR, but I think the mediation originally suggested by Filip sounded like a good idea. Too long the issue was basically ignored, hoping it would go away without having to solve it really. Getting the parties to talk, without taking sides and through that finding sufficient common ground that they can be professionally at least amicable (no private connection is needed), could have won the day months ago.

Avoiding the issue or making haphazard attempts at solving it often just makes things worse. This often goes with pretty much anything in life.

and

Quote:

fk_lx suggested some form of private mediation. To me the suggestion was actually quite clear and probably not too hard to arrange if they really wanted to solve it. I'm sure it could have been arranged over Skype or whatever. If there really was a desire to go "beyond", that card would have been called. Perhaps the other party was refusing to take part and Jolla chose to keep their developer happy at the cost of the complainant. The suggestion was ignored as far as I can tell.

Sometimes it indeed is hard to live by values. People rationalize and justify their decisions all the time to fit what is convenient, rather than what is right.

I couldn't agree more with Janne.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436975)

Shall we just go around in circles there endlessly? I've got all day, so let's talk about whatever you like :)

Nope, I don't think we'll agree on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436975)

That's complete bollocks, and also a great continuation of the same semantic games I complained about already :).

For me semantic games is what your Jolla ex-collegue Mr. Munk tries now with trying to find significant difference of meaning for word "harass" between American and British English.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436975)

Because I have nothing better to do right now, I went and looked them up: http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/sai...lines/rev.1857

Looks like they were removed because they were the same type of unhelpful, annoying garbage as you replaced another page with.

Well for you they are garbage, for me they are valid comments to rules proposed that are not even respected by Jolla employees (another dead material like guidelines written on TJC) and a form of protest.
Speaking of garbage, for me the IRC meeting was one big pile of garbage. Stefano repeating the same stuff again (despite I clearly explained that earlier in my mails to him) about mail with (forced) apologies, that I've written under pressured/forced by Mr Munk and that didn't reflected the truth at all (I was receiving threats and insults through SMS and Internet from Thomas Perl, not the other way). Mr Munk was for months putting pressure on me in Thomas Perl case. In his concept I was supposed to sit silent and tolerate bullying from Thomas Perl, accepting exclusion from certain parts of Sailfish OS contribution etc. I thought that apologies (takin blame on me) will help to improve situation - they didn't, I regret writing them. Not only Perl didn't stop his bullying behavior as Jolla employee (attempt of exclusion from event is one of examples), but also used that mail against me, trying to discredit me, despite he known very well his role in the conflict (threats, insults, bullying).

By the way w00t you so much criiticize me being not much talktive on IRC meeting, but you do not criticize Thomas Perl being silent through whole the time. Again, double standards? There was no single public statement from him about the whole case. If anything, we can only pick his comment from Twitter while the discrimination case was hot on the mailing list "Meanwhile, back in the real world, people get stuff done.". For me that is yet another proof of his arrogance and disrespect that I had chance to deal also earlier.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy

Can we please stop washing dirty linen in public and go back to topic?
Thanks.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy

Quote:

Originally Posted by fk_lx (Post 1436993)

For me semantic games is what your Jolla ex-collegue Mr. Munk tries now with trying to find significant difference of meaning for word "harass" between American and British English.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Can you elaborate?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fk_lx (Post 1436993)

(I was receiving threats and insults through SMS and Internet from Thomas Perl, not the other way).

Can you point to these threats/insults (I've certainly not seen any)? Did you go to the police already (which you should do, if there were real threats made)? What did they say?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fk_lx (Post 1436993)

By the way w00t you so much criiticize me being not much talktive on IRC meeting, but you do not criticize Thomas Perl being silent through whole the time. Again, double standards? There was no single public statement

Double standards? Hardly.

If someone makes accusations and wants to start a discussion about it, and then refuses to take part in that discussion (or to follow up later, if they aren't able to for some legitimate reason), then I'll criticize them. You did that, he did not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fk_lx (Post 1436993)

"Meanwhile, back in the real world, people get stuff done.". For me that is yet another proof of his arrogance and disrespect that I had chance to deal also earlier.

Arrogance and disrespect? [citation needed]

I have not seen any arrogance or disrespect from him. I've only seen silence while you accuse him (and those around him) of discrimination and worse.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pango (Post 1436919)

Some of us think they would do well for themselves to be more transparent. And the latest with kicking people out from various channels and cursing etc. seems awfully unwise and, well, not very unlike.

I see no reason to be inclusive of people who are clearly hostile to the community, to the point where they are disruptive of getting things done.

This is by no means a new thing, so much so that there have been a number of talks & so on about managing the problem of poisonous people in open source.

Can you tell me why you disagree?

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436995)

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Can you elaborate?

Ask Munk what his lawyer sent to my lawyer. I've mentioned in few comments earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436995)

Can you point to these threats/insults (I've certainly not seen any)? Did you go to the police already (which you should do, if there were real threats made)? What did they say?

I received threats through SMS in Febuary 2013, that he will discredit me before Austrian Python community unless I'll do what he wants (well I guess you can call that a blackmail also). Insults were done through private IRC conversation. I haven't contacted police, but I'm now very seriously considering hiring Austrian lawyer and suing Mr. Perl in Austria, because line of what I can accept has been crossed (one of threats materialized).

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436995)

If someone makes accusations and wants to start a discussion about it, and then refuses to take part in that discussion (or to follow up later, if they aren't able to for some legitimate reason), then I'll criticize them. You did that, he did not.

There was discussion on mailing list, where was he? Stefano has spoken, Munk has spoken, where was Thomas Perl's comment on the mailing list in discussion on discrimination topic, especially that his behaviour was reported by me.It was a discussion. Where was he?.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436995)

Arrogance and disrespect? [citation needed]

When someone calls you names and insults you privately on IRC that's enough. Ask Munk what were the insults, he knows about that since 1H of 2013.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436995)

I have not seen any arrogance or disrespect from him. I've only seen silence while you accuse him (and those around him) of discrimination and worse.

That's his choice to remain silent. You criticize that I was silent through most of the IRC meeting, but don't want to accept the fact, that he was silent on meeting, on mailing list. No single public statement, despite he was the person involved in discrimination from Jolla side.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy

Quote:

Originally Posted by fk_lx (Post 1436998)

Ask Munk what his lawyer sent to my lawyer. I've mentioned in few comments earlier.

I'd consider that to be off topic. I do hope you've asked your lawyer on how much sense it makes to be constantly talking about affairs that are presumably soon to end up in court, in public.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fk_lx (Post 1436998)

When someone calls you names and insults you privately on IRC that's enough.

I don't think it's enough to justify any of this, actually. If I went to court every time someone insulted me, I'd not have enough time to write these lovely replies to you. For your sake, I hope you've properly considered the repercussions about what happens if the legal system holds the same view.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1436999)

If I went to court every time someone insulted me, I'd not have enough time to write these lovely replies to you.

Where did I say that I'm going there because of insults? I'm going because of threats and one that materialized.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy

Quote:

Originally Posted by fk_lx (Post 1437002)

Where did I say that I'm going there because of insults? I'm going because of threats and one that materialized.

You've already made it clear that you're going to court against Stskeeps because he had the audacity to call your annoying behaviour "harassment", and implied that currently you're in the process of defining what "harassment" means.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't a threat.