Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

No it isn't, people have been modifying Jolla's qml files heavily, if you get an error only you get, most likely it is one of the modifications you applied, or you would get tons of people reporting it (the whole idea of opt-in)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

It depends, I can reproduce this @pichlo bug but not always the first time I run Files.

But personaly, I never run files in landscape.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

1.1.4.29 is out

https://together.jolla.com/question/...-early-access/

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Indeed! I have installed couple of days ago 1.1.4.28 and now I got notification for the 1.1.4.29.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Yay, finally a fix for the multiplying calendars bug! This was one of the most annoying ones I encountered so far for my daily usage.

Just installed the update and caldav (+carddav) sync with my owncloud seems to work as intended now. No more multiplying calendars and duplicated events so far :)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Don't forget to disable events view patches first ... as I did, and needed to reinstall all the bits... sigh

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

That's a good point. More experiments:

• Disabled all patches. Restarted services. Apps behave as expected.
• Started enabling patches one by one. So far so good.
• Bingo! Got the culprit. "Eventview controls attached page".
  Disable the patch, restart lipstick, no problems.
  Enable patch, restart lipstick, 100% reproducibility.

Still present in 1.1.4.29, but that is hardly surprising.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

unfortunately, it's not true and this patch is not related to your problem.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Once you've established that it's only you getting the error. That's why we're all trying to reproduce it for him.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

ITYM, "this patch does not cause your problem".

My experiments clearly prove that it is related. Most likely by triggering or exposing some bug in the OS or the affected applications.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

man, i'm developer of this patch, and i know it's not related. you can reproduce same on clean system with no patches enabled.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Ok, now I can confirm: When starting in landscape, it behaves wrong, like you described (tested with File Browser and Webcat).

(Eventsview controls not applied.)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

MM got a blanc screen after attempt to update, could not update at this moment try later was the message , then a reboot and all remains white on startup, bloody sh...,guess a reset/restore is needed, damn all my settings and apps gone, just a simple update can cause this ?
backup only jolla apps not all, stored on sd, hopefully can use that, any hints or help would be nice

Anyone?

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Of course this action doesn't really prove that the "Eventview controls attached page" patch is the culprit.
What you've shown is that the combination of enabled patches in combination with your device (HW version + installed OS version + other software + other tweaks + settings + ?) results in this issue.

Have you tried disabling all patches and only enable the "Eventview controls attached page" patch? Reproduce it like this and you're one small step closer to proving the "Eventview controls attached page" patch is the culprit.

Edit:
Ah, just now saw the previous comment by ssahla. Apparantly ssahla reproduced it without Eventview controls being applied.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

i don't have that patch installed, for me it's this way:

start filebrowser in landscape, close from top works 1 time, then i have to close from the side. this stays until i use portrait once again and close and restart the app. then closing from top works once again and so on...

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Yes, I admit a wrong wording. It was never my intention to imply that the patch did it, only that it exposed it. As I tried to explain in subsequent posts. My sincere apologies for the misunderstanding.

My tests showed some correlation (note correlation, not causality). Now I tried it again and can confirm that it behaves the same way without the patch. That clears that connection too.

Another thing I found is that once you start the affected app in portrait, it clears the condition. Then you need to start it in landscape twice in a row to get it again. Which may confuse some testers, including me. That suggests to me that it really is in the OS and not in the applications.

EDIT: Leinad found that too and beat me to it.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

fixed the wording for you :)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

did anyone also have this strange behaviour?
happened to me 3 times since update 12 and never before...

somehow the multitasking-view got switched to "one layer below normal" (don't know a better way to describe it) and was visible in all screens, but not accessible... i took some screenshots.

restarting lipstick fixed it...

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Old bug, happened on first releases

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

And the email client occasional freeze on its main page STILL not fixed. Must be the hardest bug in ages to fix.

The browser miss-clicking STILL there.

The vkb intermittently not popping up on webforms STILL there.

Too much usability crap for my taste in this mobile, they're loosing the game.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Could be related to the type of your account?
I've got (just one) IMAP account configured, and I have never had any problems like that. Currently about 6500 emails in my inbox.


You mean the thing when you cannot hit the link after zooming, and had to do zoom&pan to be able to click a link?
That was fixed ages ago, and at least I have not noticed any regression like that?


Does this happen on some specific sites? Have not noticed it myself.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

I am not sure if this is the same thing Larswad is on about but I have also noticed a certain anomaly. I have 7 IMAP accounts, 5 of them set up on my Jolla. All are set up to check for emails every 30 minutes.

When the check time comes and there are emails in more than one account, you get something like "4 new emails" in the notifications screen (or is it called events view? I am confused with the terminology). Tapping on that opens the email client in its main screen, with the list of accounts and the summary preview. You can then go to each individual account etc.

However, when there is a new email in only one account, tapping the notification opens the client straight in that account (or, if there is just one email, it goes straight into that email). You can then go back to the main screen but once there, the email client freezes. You cannot scroll up and down or open any account, including the one you just came from. You have to close and reopen the app.

I had always assumed it was deliberate and considered it a "feature" but it seems to have gone away in Äijänpäivänjärvi.

ITYM "supposedly fixed". I still occasionally see it, albeit not that much now as I hardly ever use the stock browser. It happens about 100 times less frequently as in the early releases, but when it does, it does not miss the spot by a few millimeters but by half the screen.

This has definitely been mentioned and acknowledged after 1.1.2.x, with the finger pointed at the upstream engine.

Is TMO specific enough? It happens to me all the time. But there is usually a simple workaround. Just tap anywhere outside the form and then back in and the VKB usually pops up again.

I would not put it so eloquently but the sad truth is that they are losing the game. Usability issues, missing or incomplete features... stuff that die-hard fans or hackers who are used to half-baked solutions can turn the blind eye on but ordinary users expect to Just Work™.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

This is a pretty annoying bug, I do confirm, it appears pretty often.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

I am going to try be more clear, I wrote the previous post on my mobile. Even though the TJC bugs/questions filed many releases ago are quite clear.

WHEN it happens, that the email client freeze on the page where you choose either a mail account to go into or any recent mail, it always seems to happen when you have read some incoming mail in one of the accounts (automatically coming there from the notification page). Moving up from the specifc mail to the main page and then it has freezed, obviously the client is alive process wise and doesn't spin, but the icons are somehow made static now. I have one google mail account, two exchange accounts and an IMAP account hosted on my own server.
I can't say it happens on a specific account type (or not), it simply happens now and then and only thing is to close the client and restart it.

The miss click of the browser, yes it has lessened and it seems to be related to zooming. but it is definitely still there. Why it is so irritating is because it can have disastrous results, loosing information in typed forms when the intention was to move the cursor (caret), but instead some link would move it to some other page. It happens often enough to be more than a slight nuisance.
Typically when you edit text, you DO zoom into the page, that's why it seems more likely to happen then.

I can't pinpoint what really happens with the vkb, when it suddenly refuses to pop back up in some forms (even if it has been there and then minimized, maybe even due to the prior click-miss bug. Sometimes it doesn't even help to click outside of a form and then inside it, it just sits there. It CAN be brought back in but just with some random clicking here and there. It's bad and its definitely still there.

There are many other things, small, but irritating usability issues, like the display sometimes refusing to come back on when double tapping. What is it DOING when that happens? I can never pointpoint it and it isn't necessarily when it is loaded CPU wise. There's probably some daemon handling this, and maybe it doesn't get any scheduling or somehing.

So if Jolla are so eager about getting the platform supported and popular by developers and companies, why ever didn't the paid apps support reach the store? I love FOSS apps, but we can probably all admit that Jolla will never get any real attention unless there is native commercial support.

Why no .ics calendar files support?

Small things but hugely irritating.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

That was my point a few months back. As a non techy/hacking user I just find the Jolla too buggy and the lack of proper Google Play appstore means relying on other appstores i would rather avoid, or just miss out.

Here is what convinced me to place my Jolla back in its box

Quote:

Originally Posted by ***** You are clearly thinking in the wrong dimesnions. SailfishOS can never compete with Android or iOS, or even Windows phone / BBOS for years. They are serving a small niche that want something different and not the same stuff as all others do. That niche seems to grow a bit lately, as people get bored with same stuff in different clothes since years. This is a small 120+ people company doing an OS, phone and tablet, marketing, sales, lawyers, etc. It's insane if you ever compare it to other big grown OS'es with multi national corporations behind them and hundreds of smaller companys supporting them / codeveloping. Thank you. With that post you have convinced me, and probably a few other non developer/technical users, that we are clearly in the wrong place.

To which my answer was:-

I had hopes and expectations which you have well and truly crushed. I am unworthy to drink at the Jolla alter as I am not technical enough and will return to the product for the masses.

I will take away with me a fantastic couple days in Helsinki, some great people who made owning an N9 and N900 such a great club and the realisation that I should not mess with small start ups.

Shame nothing has changed still and OS2.0 is as far out as ever. Lots was promised at the launch and thereafter, little has appeared. The commercial tie ups have amounted to nothing and native apps from those tie ups never appeared. Jolla have gone silent on twitter too :(

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

bockersjv: I agree with everything you say, and yet still I'm a more technical user and find it being too buggy and housing too much usability issues.

The Other Half was just vapor from Jolla's own account and basic things like battery always out of stock in the shop.

Still, I have it as my main phone. But once some alternative shows up that seems powerful enough It's bye goner.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

@bockersjv
to be honest, i can't really follow you. Not that I don't understand that some people think the Jolla phone isn't made for the masses, because there are still some things, which don't work like they expect.
But if you were happy with the N900 i can't understand that point. There were so many things where you had to use workarounds for proper functionality on the N900 (The great thing was, that there were so many possibilities to do a workaround), that I don't understand you when you rail at Jolla.

And for the Twitter thing:
Better they do programming and developing than feeding the Twitter-Feeds. Especially when there isn't much to report.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

@Larswad
I definitely agree with the battery disaster despite the fact I got a spare battery.
And I can't understand why there is still no support for paid apps in the store.

All other things I can understand or accept, even when they are sometimes really annoying.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Then, there is one other thing also: Even though myself and my wife didn't buy the Jolla mainly for the Android thing, it was a plus for doing the stuff that Jolla wouldn't yet be able to do in its childhood.

BUT, the Android alien dalvik seems to get kind of limited access to the hardware, or maybe some kind of emulated exposure of it. Because it can't browse networks (wifi hardware), it can't use the bluetooth in a way that it supports sports/health bracelets or other accessories like car diagnostics that require special profiles for serial ports etc.
So, even if the reasons to that might be explainable, like reasons of development limitations and architecture limitations and what not, it still gives a feeling of being completely fenced off from things that a regular android phone would handle. And without paid apps support, its kind of far fetched to expect any larger companies to jump on the native train.

"Sorry honey, it's a Jolla you remember? That thing you'd want is a no go, but don't cry baby, you can get another color of your other half!"
"??? uhm, yay!"

The question is, what customers is it REALLY aiming for? It's half assed in any customer profile.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

@ Larswad
It's like I said, annoying things but I can live with that. A new OS isn't created in one day. So buying a device with a clomplete new OS from a small company means patience and of course some pain:D

But if you want to have an alternative OS on the market you have to go that way. Because if everybody thinks I want this and I want that and I want it now. There will never be an alternative. Even huge companies struggled on that. Look at Bada and Tizen and WebOS.

I'm willing to go that way and until now I'm not unhappy with my Jolla: No walled garden, I can decide what's on my phone and what not. No flood of advertisements. And a Team which is listening (No they can't make every wish come true, otherwise they would be bankrupt or God);).
And be assured, I use it as my main phone.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Ok, I'm totally confused here. You're annoyed that you're fenced off from the things that a regular android phone would handle. You aren't getting the paid apps that you would find on an android phone. You're pointing out that Jolla, unlike Android, is "half assed" for any customer profile.

If I add all this together, I've gotta say, it sounds like what you really want is an Android phone. Google has invested billions (yes, billions) of dollars into this platform, so their OS is naturally feature-filled and well supported. Despite being based on Linux, they have built up a closed-source environment that is very friendly to software entrepreneurs, so quality paid apps abound. And by having their OS supported by multiple high-end manufacturers competing with one another, the hardware is insanely cheap.

Jolla is not, and will never be able to better (or probably even match) Google on these points. Even if Jolla was a 100x bigger corporation than it is now, it would not be able to beat Google on these points. (Heck, Nokia itself died trying to compete with Google on these points. Even after it gave up its own efforts and went with Microsoft's offering, it still couldn't beat Google on these points.)

In short: don't buy a Jolla device (or any other non-Android phone) if all you want is to use an Android device that isn't licensed by Google. You're never going to be satisfied.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Fellfrosch: Yes, I agree with that, I know all that. I know its a rocky road for a startup, it hardly even doesn't happen today and we should be glad that they exist. They have limited resources both in terms of time, developers and money. Its always like that.

But that is also why I feel they haven't invested the best in these resources. I was willing to wait for the worst bugs and many has been fixed indeed, but some bugs and very basic features lacking are overshadowed by other features and gimmicks that is less important.

They better keep the priority of fixing the platform so that the basic features both work and is present. Because that is what the main segment of customers expect to be there. They can't ignore it and JUST be unlike.
It goes to a point when one finally says that enough is enough.

Its not only those I mentioned here, its a LOT more, regardless of how small they are. Like able to cut out text from a web page, like having SDL1.2 support, like configuring the indexer locations and exceptions, like a useful lockscreen for apps (music controls etc.), like filter for hiding android apps in store, like searching in mail, I can go on forever. Its just too much that is remaining after every release.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

No, I detest Android and it's java-crap based perverted linux platform, it is feature rich but it builds on crap and lagware just the same.
The whole idea has been corrupted from the beginning with Android, as much as I hate closed nazi-platforms like the ones from Apple at least they know what performance is and how to keep the eco-system tight enough so that low-quality apps and OEM hardware adaptations from second-class developers doesn't leak in everywhere. What kind of a f*king super quantum computer is needed anyway to get android run smoothly without sucking a nuclear plant dry over an hour?

What I'm criticizing is the Jolla focus and priorities, enough with glitter and glam. Stabilize Sailfish and enable paid apps.

I'm glad I didn't order the tablet even if I was tempted to at the time, I'm pretty sure it will be haunted by bugs and promised but missing features years to come.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

What??? No clue what you're talking about here. Android is certainly not a perverted Linux platform; Richard Stallman might think so, but Linus Torvalds has explicitly licensed Linux in a manner that allows for using it within closed-source systems like Android. Google has chosen to pile on plenty of features, but has also ensured that the OS runs quite well on the hardware they target. I certainly have not noticed any significant peformance issues on the Android devices I've used.

Again, I've gotta say, what??? Not to bring Adolf Hitler into this discussion, but I'm fairly certain that Apple is merely following the classic capitalist model with their business. There is no Gestapo here forcing you to make decisions against your will; when you buy an iPhone, you're purchasing both a piece of hardware and licensing a service. If you feel the terms of the license are more burdensome than the benefits of the service, that's fine; but you have to remember that they set up that licensing scheme for a reason, and part of the reason they are so successful is because they are following that scheme.

Jolla is not following that scheme, and therefore, must follow a different route to success. Probably a longer, more arduous route. And they will probably (hopefully!) end up with a rather different product than Apple or Google provides.

Nnnnno. I have to say, what you are criticizing here is not Jolla's focus. Indeed, Jolla has done amazing work already to create the product they are offering. No, what you are criticizing here is the fact that Jolla is not a multi-billion-dollar corporation. That Jolla hasn't been able to recreate all of Android and its ecosystem (if that is even what they are aiming for) in the short time they've been in existence.

Sailfish is not going to be Android any time soon. Possibly (hopefully!) not ever. Honestly, if you want a device that supports the features you find today in an Android phone, just go ahead and buy an Android phone; they are cheap and readily available.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Copernicus: Either you are not reading properly what I'm writing or you are intentionally misunderstanding just to make your point (whatever fanboy endgame that is).
Either you're intentionally taking my statements into something completely different, unrelated and deciding for yourself what I am criticizing or not, or you're simply misinterpreting everything.

If I say I like bananas, you say I like oranges.

That outset makes it completely meaningless to continue debating with you.
Good day Sir.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Copernicus, you have made a few very valid points and I agree with almost everything you said.
Except for this point:

With all due respect, sir, you have no right to say that. For two reasons. First, your interpretation is influenced by your bias. Which may or may not agree with his bias. Second, you, by your own admition, do not have a Jolla phone. So your experience with it is limited at best. You do not have to suffer the minor annoyances the regular users face every day. You, sir, see the Jolla from your ivory tower. We use it on the ground.

I also admire Jolla for what they have set out to do and what they have done. But that does not mean that my admiration should be uncritical. And I have to agree with some of Larswad's points. For example about the Jolla's focus and priorities. "Make it work before you make it work better," is what it is all about. I also find it strange that they have spent 6 months on upgrading Qt when basic functionality is still missing (voicemail notification, global copy&paste, paid apps) or incomplete (CalDAV, proper email client, Exchange).

I can live with those things. I prefer the ability to run SSH or gcc on my phone to having paid apps. I do not use CalDAV or Exchange. I managed on my N900 without a voicemail notification so I can manage on my Jolla too. But I find it strange that such basic things are still not working, 18 months after the release.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

I am reading what you are writing. You are stating that Jolla is not sufficiently focussed on implementing the basic features of a mobile OS in Sailfish. I say you are wrong -- I think they've done a perfectly fine job of implementing the basic features necessary for such an OS.

My argument is that your view of "basic features" implies a feature set that is as rich and as stable as Android. Jolla has not reached that point yet; they may not even be targeting a feature set that matches Android. And I don't see that as a problem.

To sum up, I'm simply trying to say that if Sailfish doesn't meet your expectations, that isn't necessarily Sailfish's fault.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Hmm. It is true that I do not have a physical Jolla phone. (I happen to live in the hemisphere of the planet that does not yet enjoy the presence of Jolla devices. :) )

But let me ask this -- why do you have a Jolla phone? For what purpose are you using it? The Jolla phone is the first piece of hardware running the first version of a novel operating system created by a young startup company -- surely you can't have expected it to pop out of the box able to do everything other phones do, and without any bugs.

I probably have different expectations of what I want out of a phone than most folks on this board do. Personally, I've given up on the concept of a "smartphone"; particularly here in the US, the whole concept has become tied up into force-feeding expensive little locked-down pieces of hardware into user's hands that get replaced by newer little boxes every 24 months (or less). The whole thing is insane.

The solution I'm going for is to completely untie my mobile computing hardware from my mobile telephony hardware. I'll go ahead and get the cheapest handset my provider is trying to foist upon me, but I'm not going to bother buying apps or loading data onto it. Rather, I'll go ahead and keep all my personal data and personal programs on a device that I can manage myself.

And, this is what I'm looking for from Jolla (and why I'm much more excited about their tablet than their phone). It's a mobile device with a decent hardware set sporting both a decent Linux base and a decent user interface. They may or may not have good apps running on it yet; if they do, I'll be happy to use them. However, I'll also be happy to run the apps I've been using for the last twenty years on my desktop machines. And, I'll be even happier if I can continue to use those ancient apps in future mobile devices.

The cellular device world being crafted by Apple and Google today is amazing for what it provides; but, it is also closed, and therefore, stagnant. Someday, Apple and Google will move on from their current operating systems (or will disappear), and when that happens, the corresponding software ecosystem will be just as dead as the Windows 9x ecosystem. Or the MS-DOS ecosystem. Or the Mac OS 9 ecosystem. The only software from the days of my youth that is still regularly maintained and used in the present day is open-source software; everything else has long since been chucked into the dustbin.

Hmm. I think I've gotten off topic here. Let me see... Yeah, I guess I do see things from the "ivory tower" point of view; or, at least the long-term view. Bugs don't bother me. Missing functionality doesn't bother me. Eventually, such things get fixed or replaced. But, all the code Apple and Google have created, all the closed-source apps running on iOS and Android -- it's all trash. In five to ten years time, it'll all be dead and gone, just like all the closed source software that was written five to ten years ago.

Sailfish is riding on top of software that mostly isn't trash. It can run apps that are not trash. So yeah, I'm stoked about getting a Sailfish machine in the near future. :)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

I find it still funny that some people are criticising things which they think that they are basic. Some of the points you point out are already solved. Not by Jolla but third party. And the other platforms had or have similar problems:
iphone 1: missing MMS
Android: as far as I know still missing native Caldav support.
Does Windows phone meanwhile support copy and paste in all areas? It's been a while since I've seen a Windows phone. The last time it didn't.
So what's the point if even Multimillion-Dollar-Companies doesn't support all the so called basic features.
By the way, I find it a basic feature to decide what I do with my phone.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

???

Yup, now can confirm, nice find. Now if someone can reproduce the two layers bug consistently (had it like 4 times total, last time 3-4 updates ago, seems to be timing related or some racing conditions as it is rare, at least for me)