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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Nokia N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   Overclock the N900? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39753)

rolan900d 2010-04-05 12:37
Re: Overclock the N900?
 
Well spoken...

javispedro 2010-04-05 12:45
Re: Overclock the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushmore (Post 596160)
I always appreciate caution, but unless Nokia got a special 3430 chipset that is "weaker" than the ones in the Archos 5 and Sammy / Motorola phones, 800mhz is well within the operational ceiling of the chipset.

The one caveat is if the cooling solution in the N900 is weaker than those units, but I notice zero temperature difference between 800mhz and 600mhz.
Did you read the previous posts (on top of the previous page)? :)

But thanks for mentioning overclocked 3430 devices, btw.

nax3000 2010-04-05 12:46
Re: Overclock the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushmore (Post 596160)
I always appreciate caution, but unless Nokia got a special 3430 chipset that is "weaker" than the ones in the Archos 5 and Sammy / Motorola phones, 800mhz is well within the operational ceiling of the chipset.

The one caveat is if the cooling solution in the N900 is weaker than those units, but I notice zero temperature difference between 800mhz and 600mhz. I also have not noticed the battery to be draining any quicker, based on my normal use. I DO notice that the N900 performs very smoothly now, for everything to do with the phone. I could not say that before. The N900 is now just as smooth as the Droid (which is also at 800mhz max scale).

Kind of like (in a loose way) the SU7300 Intel chip. Stock is 1.3ghz, but ASUS and Dell both ship at 1.73ghz. I luv my M11X- almost as much as the N900 :)
I'm really, REALLY itching to try the 800mhz kernel now but I'm holding out for pr1.2 :D
________
Honda cb750 specifications

casper27 2010-04-05 12:51
Re: Overclock the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nax3000 (Post 596171)
I'm really, REALLY itching to try the 800mhz kernel now but I'm holding out for pr1.2 :D
The flashy lights and promise of a greener land will get you soon enough :)
900/125 rocks the n900 and brings it close to what it should have been.

UNderworld 2010-04-05 12:51
Re: Overclock the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flandry (Post 596149)
From Igor Stoppa, the engineer who gave the warning.



Takeaway messages:
  • Don't use temperature sensor readings as a guide to what is or is not going to damage the system
  • The N900 can not be expected to handle sustained overclocked heat production as well as a phone using metallic casing. More generally: device heat sinking is an important parameter.
  • The operational voltage (as was stated by Matan) is the main reason for the decreased lifetime when running at top frequencies.

What's not directly included in that short message, but is known for modern CPUs, is that operating at elevated temperatures accelerates the process known as electromigration, which eventually leads to a short or other fault in the processor. It's a cumulative effect, so e.g. if the CPU is at 40C and top voltage for 1 hour, the decrease in lifetime could be equivalent to 100 hours at 30C and bottom voltage. It's a consequence of the exponential dependence on temperature of the relevant physical processes.

Realistically, if you are going to throw away your N900 in a year or even two, overclocking the top speed step to 800 MHz and using it normally is probably not going to be a problem.

Edit: oops Titan beat me to the link. ;)
if u stop using a mobile phone, ull have a longer lifespan

rpgAmazon 2010-04-05 12:52
Re: Overclock the N900?
 
If metallic cases disipates better, I think we must buy an iPhone...
(only joking this time)

(it's so funny to me looking at the fanboys trolling! I can spend the one-year-life of my n900 only watching them!)

javispedro 2010-04-05 12:53
Re: Overclock the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 596155)
I'm not planning to play pcsx4all, and I doubt that "all those people" are either. I think you don't understand "all those people" very well.
See a lot of posts here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 596155)
They just did Nokia a big favor by getting good publicity at a time when most publicity isn't going to Nokia.
Bad publicity. I cannot for one keep stressing that "the Mhz is not everything" then happily sing along when Engadget comes because of the 1 Ghz mark. They were wrong then and they're wrong now (in the MIPS race, the Snapdragon beats the OMAP3430 hands down -- 1 Ghz does not do much to help this, the rest of features of the OMAP do).

Neither does this prevent "the obsolescence of the N900" unless we can get the official max frequency upped (aren't we a community? shouldn't we try to find stuff that works for everyone?). Which will only happen if it's safe enough. And believe me -- compromises _are_ made.

Flandry 2010-04-05 12:55
Re: Overclock the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNderworld (Post 596179)
if u stop using a mobile phone, ull have a longer lifespan
I don't know who u and ull are, but i also don't really see how it relates to overclocking my N900.

And if you're referring to the "radio waves give you cancer" hysteria, well, we can all drop the supposed fearmongering being dished out here to really let it all hang out with that wholesale madness.

miwalter 2010-04-05 12:57
Re: Overclock the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 596135)
Of course not. What argument could I give you here? The only thing I can give you is that on previous firmwares, the minimum frequency was 125Mhz, and then it was upped to 250Mhz. You can guess that was done because:
a) It was unstable at 125Mhz
b) Power savings were negligible
c) Nokia is evil*
d) Nokia is incompetent**
e) All of the above
Choose your own option.
No I will not choose one of them, because these are all unofficial, made up arguments for a design decision we can't explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 596135)
So a kernel hacker telling you that is a "thin argument"?
As far as I know the warning was given to people from some programmers - not hardware engineers.

I read enough specifications for the arm-chip to trust in overclocking it quite a bit. I don't know about the other hardware around it - and I don't care. A lifetime of about 2 years is more than enough - I never had one cellphone for longer than about a year (max) ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 596135)
Of course, does it matter to you? That's the issue here. You don't care, you want higher clock speed, you will replace the device in 6months either way (which btw is the average shelf time for $600 phones), ...
;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 596135)
*If you think "Nokia is evil", consider that they did increase the maximum operating frequency of the N800 in a firmware upgrade when they found it safe to do. God, is it so hard to understand that Nokia is composed of people that also want to reach the device limits?
Nokia's first and most important goal is to earn money. I don't think this is a wrong thing to survive in today business-markert - but, I also believe that many "technical restriction" are marketing or businessplan-restriction and are simple sold to the consumer as "facts". Maybe I'm a little paranoid here - but I am old enough to: btdt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 596135)
**If you think this is the case, we might even get Nokia to make it happen in the official kernels. Feel free to file a enhancement request!
I don't care if Nokia makes these chances in the official kernel. We have the sourcecode and are allowed to change and use it - so why shouldn't we. We don't need no authority to do it - and that's a good thing...

Rushmore 2010-04-05 12:58
Re: Overclock the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 596169)
Did you read the previous posts (on top of the previous page)? :)

But thanks for mentioning overclocked 3430 devices, btw.

Yep :)

I also agree with the points of it and Flandry's concerns. Almost any chipset that is ran at max speed more than min speed will (in theory) last less. The key is how long you run the device at the higher speeds and what point the chipset begins to be impacted.

The key issue for the degradation curve is heat and the point on the curve in relations to clock cycles that a spike takes place. Heat and clock cycles appear to have a proportional relationship until you hit the operational ceiling of the chipset. Chips are set based on being below this point (with at least 20% tolerance), but some (like the SU7300) are intentionally clocked low, mainly for marketing reasons.


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