Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Hello everyone,

I never owned a Nokia N900 but I like the way it looks with the keyboard. I read that Maemo is a linux based OS and I want to know if it is worth it to have a Nokia N900 from now onwards.

As a phone, does it work well?
Can you browse the web like any android smartphone?
Can you watch youtube videos?
Did you ever connected it to the TV?
Do you connect it to the TV often?
Can I develop apps with Python for it?

If I wanted to install EMACS could I install it?
Can I install and run Python 2.7 or 3?
I often execute a python script to download some data from websites, can I do it in Nokia N900?
For example could I install jupyter-notebook server and go to the browser to run scripts, or could I install Keras Library?

Would you recomend a Nokia N900?

Thank you in advance.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

It works really well for low level Linux stuff (terminal, command line utils, diagnostic tools) but the thing that kept me from using it as my main phone in the end is the browser, which is very outdated now.

Basically the proprietary bits (HW drivers) have prevented an otherwise very free mobile OS from being updated, so the kernel is quite old and so is glibc. Can't update them without breaking the proprietary bits! Add in the poor specs (by today's standards) and it doesn't really cut it for your average Linux user's use case (some things like YouTube work most of the time but they are very slow).

In conclusion, yes I would buy one (I bought mine in 2015 I think) and it's useful and fun, but don't expect it to replace your "normal" smartphone!

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Thank you for your reply.

Currently I don't own a smartphone, I have a Nokia 6500 :D. I had a tablet Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 but it doesn't work anymore. I want to have a phone that can be usefull and sometimes check e-mail (Hotmail), facebook and or search some stuff on the web. I like its design and keyboard. No smartphone has a real querty keyboard or are outdated as well.

I checked ebay and there's some N900 for 100€ so I thought that maybe it could be usefull and also because I think it has a high quality build that could survive some time.

Do you use yours everyday? Do you develop apps for it?

And if I may know, what do you do with it?

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

It's still my daily driver, used mainly as my personal agenda since I use taskwarrior for keeping track of my duties. I wrote some small python scripts in order to sync my family calendar (my wife uses a MS live calendar) with N900 calendar and to have alarms and events set straight from Taskwarrior. I have 4 emails accounts of which the three working ones are set up and working with no hiccups. All the drawbacks mentioned from Feathers McGraw are absolutely true. Browsers are too outdated, the best working one for me is uzbl which I launch from easy Debian when needed but you must be VERY patient waiting for website to download. Luckily, my most visited sites (like this one) are working OK with the standard webbrowser, and Opera has the best reflowing of the text of any other browser. I have no Facebook and don't do any youtube. N900 hardware is too underpowered to satisfactorily run modern javascript and I do not think Jupyter will be a satisfactory experience on it.
As a phone it is still perfectly working, the keyboard is fantastic for such a small piece of plastic and it is the main reason for which I'm still in love with it. I tested iOs and I have an Android phone which never saw a sim card. I tested SailfishOs on the XperiaX and I am currently looking around for alternatives since for my usecase the N900 and Maemo are far superior.
Don't buy it if you need a decent web experience. Buy it if you need to check a server SSH'ing into it for checking some logs and restart or reconfigure some services while you are on the road.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Answering the questions in the subject, I had to think about it. They really are two different questions.

Would I use the N900 in 2018? I would and I will. Just like I did in 2017 and 2016.

Knowing what I know now but not having one, would I buy one? Probably not. Not unless I was a hardline ideologist.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Of your list I guess the web-browsing is what causes most problems as many sites today are too heavy for N900.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

It's been years since I used my N900. It worked great as a phone, and had Skype built-in which also worked very well. It felt nice and sturdy in the hand (but thick and heavy in your pocket). No 4G AFAIK.

I never used the TV out but I know some people used it and with a terminal window/SSH could use it with for remote maintenance.

As juiceme noted, most Web sites are too heavy nowadays. In fact, one reason to get a new phone in less than three years or so is that sites are (re)designed with the latest generations of phones in mind. Even so-called "mobile" versions that used to be great, bare bones versions that used to work even over 2G now come with color and scripting. After the N900 I got an N9, which became unbearably slow at browsing and now my Jolla is starting to be too slow too.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Hi!

I have my n900 since 2010 and I still use it as my daily phone.
I do not know what an "average user" needs nowadays and I do not really know what Android is capable of because I do not have any Android phone. My wife has...

First of all - as said earlier - the stock browser experience sucks... I have opera mobile installed and that is enough most of the time for my needs. If not then I use midori - I have kali linux chroot with i3 window manager and midori is quite good on it...
Youtube: with cutetube2 I do not have restriction so it is far enough for me; I'm able to watch any video but you have to set it up properly (search for the threads...).
Development: I learned python on the phone itself and wrote some apps, scripts - I find it quite useful. But: you have to keep is mind that the stock python is 2.5 and I would not recommend to update 2.7 or 3 because maybe some compatibility issue can occur or simply there is no module for that... On kali image there is python 2.7... I did not try Jupyter though...
I have a "development maemo image" on my phone so I can write (learn) C code than build it or simply build any app if it is possible (last time I built sqlcipher with checkinstall). It is useful but of course has limitations...

I connected it to my TV (with scart adapter, hahaha) in the past to watch movies but nowadays I don't. But you can do that of course but be avare of the resolution...

So all in all for me it is good and I would not cahnge it to any Android phone. Would I buy one...? I do not know since I would not know any linux stuff without is :)
Keep in mind that if you want *any* android app/experience then n900 is not your phone because there is no such apps for it (as far as I know).

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Emacs on N900 is awesome due to its keyboard - it is the primary reason I am still using the N900 as my main phone.
Pretty recent emacs version is available for N900 25.1 see thread

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Nope. Too much work, not enough to make it worth my time now.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

haha, no way. So much more advanced phones

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

As a phone, it works fairly well. Cannot think of any complaints. Speakers quiet? Well, it may be just my worn out device, full of dust or something.

Browsing the web is very spotty, since default Nokia's web browser is Firefox 3.6, ancient, and some web pages don't work at all, or work very slowly. However, a variety of web-browsers can be installed, such as Chromium, Opera, Fennec (Firefox 17 for mobile), and others. I am still using MicroB, though; with Fennec as back-up for troublesome sites - but I admit there are better browsers out here.

Wouldn't know how an android smartphone works, never used one.

Watching youtube videos is possible in theory, there are guides on upgrading Adobe Flash, and there are dedicated apps like CuteTube.

Yes, I did connect Nokia N900 to a TV, several times, works like a charm. No, I don't do it often, we don't use TV much - mostly for watching movies in the evening, either from a DVD, or from PC-RGB computer's output. Since switching between different TV modes is difficult on this TV in particular (TV's buttons work intermittently and irregularly), we prefer to avoid switching TV to different input unless necessary (it's possible, just frustrating).

Yes, you absolutely can develop apps with Python for it. Have a look at Modrana, very popular navigation app for Nokia N900, written in Python. And Maebble, Pebble support for Maemo, also written in Python. https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=97591

Emacs, yes, it is available. See http://maemo.org/packages/view/qemacs/ and http://maemo.org/packages/view/emacs25/
Default Python is 2.5, but Python 3 is available, too.
Yes, you could execute a python script to download some data from websites, in Nokia N900. I occasionally execute a python script (firefox_decrypt.py or something) in Nokia N900 to look at passwords remembered by MicroB browser.

Yes, I would recommend a Nokia N900.

There are other smartphones out here with sliding qwerty keyboards. But if you want a phone running Linux, with familiarity of command-line tools and root access...

Of course, I have heard about other Linux for mobile operating systems, such as Ubuntu Touch and Sailfish OS. If you wish, you could go for Nokia N950 (rare, developer device) or Jolla 1 with keyboard TOH or one of other devices supported by unofficial port of Sailfish OS, such as:
1) Motorola Droid 4 and Motorola Photon Q (besides Android 4.1, supported by LineageOS 14.1 [Android 7.1.1 "Nougat"]);
2) Moto Z Play (compatible with MotoMod accessories; runs Android 7);
3) HTC Desire Z (Android 2);
4) Sony Ericsson Xperia pro (Android 4);

I am using Nokia N900 as my primary and only phone, every day. It's the only phone I have ever had, and it's the first Linux computer I used.

I agree that semi-transparent on-screen keyboard I have seen on Nokia N950 (Nemo Mobile installed) is neat. See a screenshot:
http://www.robertocolistete.net/ipyt...SailfishOS.jpg
But while Nokia N950 might be better in some regards (hardware and software both), it's rare, very much so. And it has capacitive touchscreen, while I prefer resistive one, if only for its potential with drawing. https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50811

Thank you. Best wishes,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Hello vascoferreira,

Welcome to TMO :)

Wikiwide has asked me to respond here.

The short version is: Please test jupyter-notebook server and Keras Library in a Maemo VM. Everything else is achievable to various extents.

The long version:

> I never owned a Nokia N900 but I like the way it looks with the keyboard. I read that Maemo is a linux based OS and I want to know if it is worth it to have a Nokia N900 from now onwards.

Great! I am glad you like Linux. I like it too. It

> As a phone, does it work well?

Yes - great sound, stereo speakers, front cam so you can video chat over the internet or sip or anything else as well. Only some 3G wavelengths are supported, please check what your provider is using (I do not have the exact names for the wavelengths, maybe someone else from the forum may provide them to you.)

> Can you browse the web like any android smartphone?

I do not know. I do not browse the web myself. I find this screen size a pain to surf the web with on any device.

Wikiwide uses Fennec or Dillo to surf the web. Websites load and show. Some JavaScripts do not work and most payment gateways die on it. Wikipedia, Wikinews, wiki editing work ok. Technically, the phone is capable of playing high-resolution music and video, including I think html5 video tags (?).

> Can you watch youtube videos?

Haven't tried. At my laptop, I watch it using youtube-dl script. This is kind of atypical - I am not an average user, and not an average Maemo user either. A quick web search brings up this interesting project http://mytube.garage.maemo.org/ which is perhaps on the right track to making YouTube available to Maemo users.

> Did you ever connected it to the TV?

Yes, this works well. We use this to view the filmed videos. The mic is great and the videos are interesting to watch.

> Do you connect it to the TV often?

Not every day, but I don't see any problem with this in principle.

> Can I develop apps with Python for it?

Yes, modrana is in python and the entire python stack is available. Some packages are several years old, but I think Python provides a means to have a custom Python environment in your $HOME, which would perhaps be able to keep you on the bleeding edge of modern Python developments.

> If I wanted to install EMACS could I install it?

It works.

> Can I install and run Python 2.7 or 3?

Yes.

> I often execute a python script to download some data from websites, can I do it in Nokia N900?

Yes, Maemo has a terminal and app launchers, so executing python scripts is possible.

> For example could I install jupyter-notebook server and go to the browser to run scripts, or could I install Keras Library?

Unfamiliar names. Would suggest to try these in a Maemo VM before purchasing the hardware.

> Would you recomend a Nokia N900?

To tell briefly about my use-case: together with my sister we used the XUL (XML)-based Fennec browser back when it was developed by Mozilla and was one of the official Firefox flavours. Started using our first Nokia N900 around 2010. The vast apps ecosystem is one of the strong points. Many of them already are rewritten to fit the Hildon environment, many aren't, reverse engineering of some proprietary Maemo parts is an ongoing process since after Microsoft purchased NOKIA and left source codes unavailable. Hildon is documented and FOSS itself (to the best of my knowledge).

I am a little disappointed with lack of good user and developer-friendly verbose internationalized documentation for Maemo that would show how apps work, and store all bug reports in a single location. Despite that thousands of apps are still there in the system in the main repository. They make Maemo unique and hackable. Hopefully we work out how to document them and document the bugs too (small well-documented bugs may be a starting point for new developers).

I personally would recommend Nokia N900 to people whose use-case fits. For you I would suggest to test the particular software you mentioned without buying the hardware first. There is a .iso of an ubuntu host + maemo guest vm on the website somewhere, it allows to try Maemo in two clicks. Can't find it on-wiki, it needs an archeologist: I can only locate http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567 now.

Best regards,
Gryllida

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

In that case, mine must have been full of dust since day 1.

Maybe you are used to it if all you ever had were Nokia phones but, coming from a different world, I always found the N900 speakers waaaay too quiet. The number of calls I missed because I did not hear the phone ringing in my pocket. Or the number of times I could barely make out what the other side was saying when I received the call outside on the street. All of that despite having the volume turned up to 11.

Back in 1999-2000, my Motorola V3690 was much, much, MUCH louder. And had a better vibrator (and voice dialing, but that is another topic).

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

If I didn't own a N900 I would consider buying one nowadays. But not as a daily drive. Why? Because it is fun to play with!

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

A bit offtopic -- I saw a mention of Jupyter in your original message -- if you're a student, maybe you want to participate in GSoC this year:

- http://wiki.octave.org/Summer_of_Cod...er_Integration Jupyter Integration (Summer of Code Project Ideas (GNU Octave))
- https://wiki.octave.org/GSoC_2018_application

I just bumped into that page today and saw a familiar word. Figured it's perhaps worth asking just in case you're a student and you are willing to participate. If you are not a student yourself, perhaps ask around :)

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Everyone has mentioned the obvious and not so obvious reasons...for wanting or having an n900...
it's challenges and benefits...especially nowadays...

yes it is one of the few phones that are a computer ...in essence..as well...
and that runs linux...
with a physik keyboard and resistive screen...
and all the other jazz everyone has been saying...
and that yes you can work on your own programs for it..

sure there are other phones that run linux...
are they better?
some may be newer...some older...but better? ...I don't think so...

some still use the n900 as a daily...some don't...
hell ...there are some of us who still use the n770, n800 and n810 daily..
:D

important is...
there is all the software for the devices here...and...there is the community here...and all those who help...

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

No I don't think so.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Since two or three days ago, I am using Maemo Leste on my 2nd N900 (with, unfortunately, broken modem), and I'm very happy!
So I wish I could get another N900 with working modem, or, to answer the thread directly, YES, I would buy an N900 in 2018

of course my daily phone is my other N900, and that's not about to change :)

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

I have been thinking of opening up a few of my X-SIM N900s and reballing the modem chip with my hot air reflow station, does anyone know the ideal temp for the N900's solder?

As for the thread I would LOVE a working browser, but I still use my N900 for everyday as I cant get anything near the same function out of my no-gapps LineageOS tablet but if I think I will need browsing or NFC for transit card I carry that. The reality is that it is not the N900 it is the ridiculous bloated web 2.0 abomination that is ruining the experience for anything lacking a bombastic processor, memory, and internet connection.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Yes. It is Nokia.

No. It's very different, you can show N900 as computer
to webpages. Well made pages works fast, but some
poorly heavy made pages can be slow.
Good thing is that you
can use keyboard short-cut to copy from web-page.

Yes. I use Fennec browser for that.

I just tested that it works with TV.

Yes. And you can develop also with it.

Yes you can. And easily.

Yes you can.
I have writen some sh-scripts to use wget command to
download some files from net.

If you want program with smartphone. Yes I recommend,
I think that is best for that.

I have N900 in every day use as my main phone. And I have
seen new iPhone and many Android devices, but they don't
have that freedom that N900 has.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

YouTube:
Mmm, I don't seem to be able to do that in Fennec, or I'm missing something?

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

I just bought a used Nokia N900 and I am so much impressed what this good old device can. And how great the community keep this special phone alive!!! Thank you all so much...

Ok, browsing the web is not the same as on modern smartphones. Even if it is not as bad as something said here (qml-browser 0.9 was just updated half a year ago).. Furthermore some apps need a little bit manual work (e.g. ModRana or CuteTube2).

But for a linux enthusiast, there is nothing better at the moment I think. And at the moment many things arise: Maemo Leste, Postmarket OS, perhaps sometimes Neo900..

On the other hand this or next year Purism Librem 5 will come. And I think this smartphone will be a game changer for the Linux mobile world...

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

I just open Fennec (version 7) and going to m.youtube.com and I click under the pictures watch video when Fennec starts mediaplayer and show the video in full screen. Just easy.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Me too - I still use my n900 as my main phone.

every day, all day long

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

I've owned a N900 from 2010 to 2017, it was stolen, and I bought a replacement, and I'm happy I did so.

> As a phone, does it work well?

well, sort of. its multitasking is different from Android: on Android things in the background get swapped away, stopped, parked. on N900 they stay active, so on N900 if you're doing 5 things at the same time, you're doing 5 things, while on Android you're doing 1 thing and have 4 parked. an incoming call has more trouble to come through on a busy computer.
do not choose a high bitrate mp3 for a ringtone, much better something light on the CPU.

> Can you browse the web like any android smartphone?

I use Opera, I'm not happy with it, but it works.
or I ssh -CY to my laptop and start the browser and can use it on the N900 while laying in the hammock.

> Can you watch youtube videos?

better than that: you can download them at whatever resolution, then watch them. I suggest youtube-dl and mplayer or ffmpeg. and do not even dream of doing the same on any other phone.

I generally youtube-dl -f18 the video, then watch it using mplayer.

> Did you ever connected it to the TV?

I never did, I know it's possible.

> Can I develop apps with Python for it?

not only that: you can write PyGtk programs that show functionally the same on N900 and on a laptop. only limitation is Python2.5. it would be interesting if there were python-gtk also for python2.7.

> If I wanted to install EMACS could I install it?

one of my reasons for buying one again, the day after mine was stolen.

but the presence of vim, I would also mention that one!
ah, and you will reprogram your keyboard to include ESC and others.

> Can I install and run Python 2.7 or 3?

I used to have python2.7 alongside the officially distributed python2.5. I had to solve issues, I still didn't find the urge to do the same on the replacement after robbery. as mentioned, I miss python-gtk on 2.7.

> I often execute a python script to download some data from websites, can I do it in Nokia N900?

if you're using python2.5, I don't see why not. I generally write bash scripts based on wget to download from websites, plus grep, sed, awk, cut, and all the rest of the gnu family.

> For example could I install jupyter-notebook server and go to the browser to run scripts, or could I install Keras Library?

what an interesting question, I have no clue what you're talking about. thanks for the hints.

> Would you recomend a Nokia N900?

¡¡ YES !!

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

would you add to your post a link to the relevant repository? :)

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

extras-devel?
http://repository.maemo.org/extras-d...ool/fremantle/

be careful, devel can be devil ;)

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

There exists also the streamlink but I am not sure if it works (or may work) on the N900. Just FYI.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Funny but I started using N900 after using android phone for 6 years. What I regret is all that time I lost not using my N900. I just bought second one no more then week ago in case I will need a replacement.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

oops, yes, true, I had forgotten to add this one, on the replacement N900, indeed fearing the devil I suppose. I should set priorities somewhere, if I remember how to do that.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Is there a way that we can set the quality of videos? It is pretty poor quality when I play it from you tube on a Fennec...

Cheers

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

This really.
Altough Im using an iPhone 7 now and am quite happy with it, when it comes to performance and battery life, it simply doesn’t feel right.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Have 2 N900 New in box.

never opened , qwerty version pkb.

not fake N900, real N900.

how much should I ask for them?

regards

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

I suggest going on eBay...
And selling there...if decent recompense is the motive.
Check out what the going price is...
And undercut it...
I am sure you will get them sold...

A fixed price that anyone could suggest is ...folly....
The value of them is volatile...
If there are few pristine n900's for sale...at a given time...the going price escalates...
If there are lots of them available...the prices become more competitive ...

Soooo....
I suggest checking it out...
If there are lots available currently..
Hang on to your n900's and wait until the availability goes down and the price escalates ...

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

Just bought two.

Lot to do to (atleast for me who doesn't understand anything) to get it work.

Be ready to learn to use flasher. 7 times flashed mine after doing something wrong. Don't know if I have done something wrong but everytime I installed CSSU kernel and packages many devel repository state apps stopped working (can't install cutube2 or telegram for pidgin if CSSU installed cause won't let you install everything needed). FSU kernel has worked ok so far. Newest devel Opera stays on and uses 100% cpu and needed to shutdown phone to get it of.

I personally would need a guidance on basic stuffs. Is this a good way to do it, to start a thread with questions, or is there a guide for get basic stuffs to work? Which browser and version and from where and to what purposes, which social madia sites work and can be used and how, video watching through downloading or with what browser and how etc. This kind of walkthrough guide would be cool. I may start a thread and tell how wrong I have done it all and maybe it will make people to answer cause they suffer and understand how stupid some can be.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

And for the pricing.

Unused N900.

I have just bought two used ones, one with 25€ with charger and one 45€ with the box and everything. But you could get 100-150€ if you wait until leste is up and running well and in your selling post you would put links to guides how to install Kali Linux, install Pawn Express, install leste jne. The more you show and tell people what they can do with something which they can't use on many things the most basic low price smartphones can nowadays, there's your marketing.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

If there are really NEW unopened and REAL, I will take one from you. I am based in Italy, is shipping possible?

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

if someone have not had a smartphone before N900 is probably mindblowing. But after using iPhone since 3G with which I have created movies, music, musicvideos and photoediting stuff there has to be reasons why to start to use N900 as a main phone. N900 does not stop your own brains working the same way as does new smartphones. A bit slower and less capabilities prevents your brains to adapt smartphone as an essential part of your brains. And with N900 you stay smart and become smarter which is vice versa with newer phones.

Re: Would you buy/use Nokia N900 in 2018?
 

I don't think I have answered this question yet....

Lemmeseenow...
Would I use a n900 in 2018 .?
Most definitely I would...
Most definitely I already do...

Would I buy an n900 in 2018?
Most definitely not!
I have far too many of them now...
I can't cope with more n900's
:D