Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Look what came in my email today from Bugzilla...

------- Comment #103 from kimmo.hamalainen@nokia.com 2007-09-25 09:45 GMT+3 -------
It's a kernel issue and it's being fixed.

At last some acknowledgement from Nokia - wonder how far away that fix is.

For me - that nice 8Gb card is going back in it's case and waiting.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I guess if there hadn't been prompting in Bugzilla for a progress update, Nokia would have kept silent and pulled another rabbit out of the hat (ie. provided a fix) with the next firmware release - in the meantime we would have continued devoting our time to filing more bug reports even though the problem had been isolated and fixed (think: touchscreen issues).

What the fck is wrong with Nokia and their lack of communication skills? Even the post in the bug gives no detail of the problem - I guess we'll need to trawl the kernel commit log to get any idea what the problem is.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

This bug was already fixed with the last firmware. One day after official release the bug was reopened again. I don't believe it until I have tested this fix ;)

I don't understand why they don't provide patches or test-packages for testing. They should mention in bugzilla the specific code-lines that are affected! Perhaps Nokia never heard of opensource.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

A full community test of the fix ahead of any official firmware release would seem a wise decision (at least 1 month soak test), along with a more detailed and open explanation of the problem itself... if it was a Nokia coding error all along I really don't care - it's not about pointing fingers, just being honest. I don't understand this degree of "secrecy" whenever there is a problem - it really doesn't help to engage the community, rather the complete opposite.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I don't think they are purposely attempting to keep us out of the loop. It's just that they, along with MANY other corporations, are used to the way things have been for them for years and years. Development is closed and you don't spill any beans for any reason whatsoever lest you be fired.

Nokia's not used to the open source way of doing things... and I'm sure the employees aren't either as the IT stuff is basically a small project... so they are still used to being weary of opening their mouths and so on. Constantly *****ing and moaning about it (and making mountains out of molehills) doesn't help matters. They know we want more open communication from them and it's been slowly getting better. It's just very hard to have that happen when the overwhelming corporate culture of the huge company you work for is so hush hush.

Back on topic, I'm glad to hear that the issue has finally been found and that it's a kernel issue rather than a hardware issue, though I realize that's little consolation for those of you that lost cards to the bug. I hope Nokia compensates you for the loss/trouble.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

They can't really do that because all their source code releases have to be approved by a legal department and I don't think they want to have to approve every single two or three line change. It would be nice.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I fully understand the reasons why the Nokians let very little slip, however despite many promises to improve the process there appears to be no real progress - this is incredibly frustrating. You'd have thought after 2+ years of "open source" development they might be using Bugzilla more productively, yet it still appears they are using it grudginly.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

It may be a bit misleading to call something either kernel or hardware issue. It is quite common that hardware has bugs which are worked around in kernel. So we'll see if this is really some software bug or next kernel will simply have some workaround for buggy hardware (i.e. OMAP MMC controller or whatever).

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Or they could provide enough detail for some enterprising community kernel developer to apply the diff and release it unofficially. Currently we have neither :)

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I don't want to see the whole sourcecode. But if the bug is kernel-related, I don't know why they shouldn't provide their changes in bugzilla. As far as I know: the kernel is opensource :eek: :eek: :eek:
(apart from binary-blobs)

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Doesn't N800 kernel has some proprietary, hardware specific, code? Like the power saving/sleep mode in particular... ;)

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I called that part "binary-blob".

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

No. One part of wi-fi driver (umac.ko) is closed source. And BT and wi-fi firmware blobs are closed too. But nothing in kernel related to power management. However there are userspace bits related to power management that are closed (dsme, bme).

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

So now that they have admitted there is a problem with the kernel, who do I send the bill to for the three fried cards I have. BTW my N800 had an older kernel on it when it fried the cards. I hope the problem is a hold over from earlier revisions that just migrated through to the current release and not a different problem.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

You guys are forgetting something very important here in your (justified) anger: the tablets didn't start off fully open source. People complained. Nokia HAS listened. The last firmware was a significant step toward the goal of increased open source and visibility. You just don't see the full fruits just YET. Will it be total? No, and I think most here understand exactly why even if they don't necessarily accept it.

Nokia has asked for patience from the tablet owners. I realize many believe, rightfully so, that should not have to be patient. I realize there have been critical bugs (and MANY thanks to those who have provided outstanding input to Bugzilla). To that point, this sort of endeavor is a two-way street. Nokia is providing a handheld device running Linux; the obligation of those who enjoy the benefits of Linux is to provide detailed feedback. And please keep in mind absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.

Patience. Better things ARE coming. I have not lied to you yet nor will I.

Appearances are deceiving. You guys are assuming very wrongly about maemo.

And how do you define "real", Mil?

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Presumably Nokia know exactly what is wrong with your 3 "dead" cards and could, if they chose to, confirm whether they can be resurrected or not. They could even document a suitable method for resurrection.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I would like to see Nokia use Bugzilla in the same way other projects use it - effective two way communication, open and transparent, no politics, egos or agendas.

Many (but importantly not all) bugs in Bugzilla receive no input at all from Nokia - there is no dialogue, only silence and one way communication.

In the case of the MMC corruption, I don't understand why Nokia waited until they were prompted to reveal the issue had been identified - Nokia should have been shouting about it from the rooftops! To me, this is another indication of Nokia still not "getting" free and open discussion with the community - the politics (and perhaps an ingrained internally facing development mentality) is stifling full engagement of the Nokia developers and the community.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

As long as I get 3 fixed / stable cards in the end, i'll be more happy then I am now, however, 2 were bought as replacements which never would have been purchased if they hadn't become corrupted in the first place. This is not the place to argue this though.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Further information about the bug has been posted by Nokia including an Oct 2nd release date for the fix:

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1204

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

To the card manufacturer of course. They did supplied flawed cards which are failing to comply with SDHC specifications, so it is their fault. According to specification, card must not become corrupted in such scenario when power dropped for some reason. At very most, some files can be damaged but card itself should become alive. I suspect you can encounter such corruption not just in Nokia n800 only. So, manufacturer MUST replace completely failed cards under warranty conditions.Solely their fault

Note: file system corruption file system corruption while card itself is alive is probably up to you.Card manufacturer is not responsible for the fact you or your device 've wrote data that are not looking like valid file system.Try to recover MBR and partition table with according software.If this fails and card seems to be totally dead, you have to request card replace\repair under warranty since you did nothing wrong against SDHC spec's.

Let's admit that it looks like there is card vendors who does not suffers from this bug and obey SDHC specs better.At least I was not able to corrupt my Kingston SDHC 8Gb card while doing everything described in this bug.Yes, I did downloaded huge 700 Mb file over wi-fi to SDHC card and device entered sleep mode and was awakened by me several times, etc.Yes, I did performed massive file transfers. Card is still alive.

P.S. and damn, do not tell about internal and external slot differences.That's annoying and lame.There is n800 scheme floating around in the web and you can see, both slots are attached to "Menelaus" chip.They should be electriacally identical.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I was looking for some low level formatting tools and found this interesting piece of information:
http://sdprob.aximsite.com/

What is interesting is this part in particular:
---------------------
" And of course digital cameras, PDA's and 99% of the rest of the SD card devices need this "secure area" like you need another hole in your head. But guess what? You can't get it back. You can't format the "secure area" (Unless someone out there in webland knows of a consumer device that supports a low-level format) . Its under the control of the SD card's internal controller.

And guess what happens if the "secure area" becomes corrupted? Say bye-bye to your SD card... A high-level format can't directly access the secure area.

(Actually I'll admit the most common question is - why did my SD card go wrong? You should find the answer on the line above...)"
--------------------

So, most likely this reserved "Secure Area", present on all types of Secure Digital (SD) cards, might have been corrupted on permanently corrupted cards?

This begs to the question if anyone has had permanently corrupted MMC cards? AFAIK, MMC cards do not have this "Secure Area", since they do not have Digital Rights Management feature in them... Anyone messed up MMC card beyond repair on N800?

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1204
See Post #64
"However, the memory card slots in N800 have slightly different voltage regulation (max voltage and power), so it's possible that depending on the memory card the slots could behave slightly differently."

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I can also imagine that they may have internal built-in controller firmware stored in flash and it becomes corrupted.Or something like this.When flash write is in progress and power is lost, with poorly designed internal hardware logic it could happen that internal flash programming logic fails miserably due to too low voltage and flash write can actually hit WRONG place.This is known reason of some firmware corruptions in microcontrollered devices where microcontroller IC has poor reset\brownout logic design.

Okay, take a look on scheme and please explain then how this happens and why, then.Both cards are attached to the same IC named "Menelaus" which does performs power regulations(this activity can be seen in dmesg log as well).It is pretty doubtful it has non-symmetric properties for same functional pins.So I guess electrical properties are near the same (plus or minus minor issues due to PCB layout).Of course corrections from Nokia staff are OK.Guy who posted this not seems to be Nokia staff.Or I'm wrong?

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

The internal slot has the capacity to provide a higher voltage than the external slot - as such, when the voltage drops perhaps the internal slot is still providing sufficient voltage to avoid any corruption because it was providing a higher voltage in the first place. The external slot on the other hand in a similar situation dips below the critical voltage threshold and card corruption is the result.

Post #64 is from a Nokia employee, and his comments are backed up by similar observations from the Linux kernel developer who originally added SDHC support.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

External slot have wider range of voltages and is more fine grained so it can go lower. Check kernel source, it is there. I don't heve it here now but if card requests 2.8V it will get 2.9 (or maybe 3V?) in internal slot but 2.8 in external one.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

After 2 years of Nokia's crap, isn't anyone else sick of being a beta tester. Its like QA doesn't even exist over there.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

come on now penguinbait... witout nokia would you be porting kde/xfce for the latest palm/pocketpc :)

Nokia is not spoonfeeding... that would be akin to microsoft xp releasing a new powertoy... they are releasing much more than what we paid for.

This risk of great strides is a few stumbles. Without nokia i'd have a device that i like less than my 770, nevertheless 800.

They definately -should- put you guys on the payroll though :)

Class 6 SDHC Cards
 

Has anyone managed to get a class 6 SDHC card to work? I purchased a class 6 8GB A-DATA to add to the class 2 I already have, thinking I'd get more speed. All I got was constant corruption of data, although thankfully it has yet to actually die. I've set it aside until things settle out or I may need eBay it since it may be a physical limitation of the n800. I did manage to make a class 4 8GB Patriot card work and I'm running it in the internal slot with the OS booting off of it to stress it and make sure it really works. No problems after several days and some forced ext2 fsck checks. Unless Nokia or the original kernel developer can make magic happen it looks like class 4 is the ceiling for cards.

Larry

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Re: class 6 cards.

I'm using Kingston 8GB (class 6) SDHC cards in the internal slot of two different N800s. They are being uses as the root partion for each unit (as well as a FAT32 partion). I haven't had any trouble, and I have done large transfers over Wifi, as described, on both units. FWIW, before buying the cards I couldn't only find successful Kingston threads. Of course I could have missed some. :rolleyes: Newegg has pretty good pricing.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I had a problem with my external SD card and was curropted showing in app. manager.

What i did is removed the card and put it in to my XtraDrive (turn your SD/ MMC memory cards into USB Thumb Drive) and turned it into USB Drive and pluged in to usb port and did low level format with HDD Low Level Format Tool 2.36.1181, may be letest version is there on website (HDDguru). After low level format i went in to manage by right clicking My Computer and formated with FAT32, removed USB drive and pluged SD back in to Slot and it was Working:)

Hope this may help someone

Re: Class 6 SDHC Cards
 

My Kingston Class 6 8GB SDHC card has worked fine in the internal slot for months now, though it did have some problems in the external one.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I just purchased a new 4GB Sandisk (class 2) SDHC card and wanted to share some interesting test results... As someone might remember I do have two tablets and I also have 8GB Patriot Class 4 card that I purchased a while back. I did some comparison testing of write and read speed on them on different slots, different firmware (patched and non-patched) and in different N800 units.

First of all, it seem "Sandisk feature" that it does not want to operate in high speed (48MHz) mode. It reverts back to 24MHz bus speed on my patched N800. While this was slightly disappointing... it doesn't appear to be as bad as it sounds... read on...

I didn't use the dd or any other "built in' speed test, but I used a 319MB video file in my PC that I wrote to N800 and read back to PC using USB cable. I timed the time to transfer with a stopwatch. Both cards were formatted to a single FAT32 partition using 2k block size.

Test results with N800 having patched kernel:
Card: Ext/Int: Write_time: Read_time:
8GB E 188s 25s
4GB I 132s 43s
8GB I 185s 25s
4GB E 135s 42s

And here are the results of N800 having non-patched kernel. (The firmware is the one that is planned to be released next Tuesday... ;) )
Card: Ext/Int: Write_time: Read_time:
8GB E 195s 40s
4GB I 132s 42s

I didn't swap the cards in the slots on the second unit, since it didn't make any difference in the results (excluding error margin) on the first unit... Just being lazy there... :o

So, the findings. Surprisingly the Sandisk Class 2 card outperform the Class 4 Patriot card in write speed!!! Based on the dmesg logs it is running at 24MHz speed. So, in other words, the bus clock speed is not that important as I was thinking it was... Likely the memory card timings play a big(ger) role.

The high speed mode seem to help only on read speed.

And, as if you interpreted the results of my second tablet, you can make educated guess if the new firmware will support high speed mode... :rolleyes:

Oh, and last, both cards have identical write speed (60 seconds to write 319MB file) when used with an external SDHC USB reader/writer. So the N800 is still very slow when compared to a dedicated reader/writer... Anyone planning to do a lot of file transfers to/from your memory cards, I highly recommend to purchase external reader/writer.

UPDATE:
I just rerun the test when using external USB reader. It seems that the memory card speed gets slower when there is more data in it? After some 400MB worth of MaemoMapper files are stored on the card, the write took 66 seconds, and the read back took 31 seconds. The same test on the Patriot 8GB Class4 card (having approximately the same amount of data) took 60 seconds to write and 20 seconds to read.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Hmm... is the Oct 2nd update available somewhere for early testing? :rolleyes:

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Milhouse fanoush
I see, control values in registers are really differ to acheive same result.Really asymmetric prop's.Amazing! :\

penguinbait
One moment, but with SDHC problem is in 2 parts.One is SDHC in Linux kernel is not ideal.Other is that cards are capable of dying just because power dropped.This is against SDHC specs so card manufacturers are IMHO responsible for releasing flawed products here as well.Of course everyone wants to be first on market.As for me, looks like Transcend and A-Data did not tested their cards well enough under different circumstances, especially taking into account that real world differs from ideal lab conditions.Or why Kingston does NOT dies?I'm played with my Kingston SDHC 8Gb Class6 a bit and still not able to kill it.Works ok for me.Imho if card can be killed by methods which are within spec it is hard to trust such card at all.But about QA I'm agree, it should be more powerful.Nokia IT OS 2007 3.2 (without skype) is much more stable than IT OS 2007 4.x (with skype).Surely, there is lots of room for QA job.I wonder why Nokia does it so poorly.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

It's obvious that you guys have never worked in a QA department before.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Actually I was wrong with details about 2.8 voltage, below is the code. While external slot indeed is more fine grained and has wider range, for 2.8-3.0V range it should produce same voltage. I'm not sure what voltage SDHC cards request but you can see it in kernel log when inserting the card.

Exactly. Cards should not die no matter what. This is bad design. They should simply disconnect from the bus or return error but not become permanently damaged. If this is specific to some brands it may be that all such cards use same SDHC controller chip inside with some buggy hardware or firmware. On the other hand, powering off the slot in the middle of write when going to power saving mode is not good idea either (if this is what Nokia firmware does). Let's wait for updated kernel source. I'm quite interested where the bug is and how they fixed it.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Indeed. I wrote a very lengthy, very detailed and very accurate explanation of how product QA works a while back here (it is also duplicated on maemopeople.org). It seems a few could benefit from reading it.

In addition, QA is a broad term. To paint all of Nokia QA badly with a broad brush is disingenuous. If one segment does not work, that does not automatically impugn others.

Finally, the point made a few posts above about the complexity of this issue is highly relevant. I made the prediction very early on that this would likely turn out to be a combination of causal factors. I take no satisfaction in being correct, but that fact remains: no blame can be assessed to one camp-- especially given the diversity of experiences recounted (I have YET to have problems with any card over 32 meg, and there were mitigating factors with that particular episode).

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

The fact that I never had this problem in the six months or so since I got my tablet shows that this kind of issue would have been difficult for your typical overworked, underappreciated QA department to find in a month or two. (I have no idea how long phones are in QA at Nokia for, just a guess.)

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I'm with texrat and zerojay on this.

As for QA finding all kind or problems in advance.. that won't happen _anywhere_. Where I work we suddenly started to get problem reports on something that had worked flawlessly for more than half a decade on a huge number of installations. Turned out there was an old bug deep down there. However, nothing ever triggered it before. Ever. It must have been tested and verified ok literally millions of times, under varying conditions and on lots of platforms. Then suddenly.. boom. At least in our case it was easy to find then, but that's not always the case. The most difficult situation is when hardware, software and 3party equipment/software interoperation is involved.

Blah-blah, somnething about QA...
 

Really? Actually, QA is my prophecy :p. And as QA I have to admit that firmware 4.2007 (this one with skype) has slightly worse quality than "default" firmware (version 3.200 IIRC). Sorry but that's true, at least it's my experience. I also do not know if Nokia extensively tested SDHC support but if QA processes adjusted properly, this bug not seems to be very hard to catch in test environment. Just buy bunch of cards from different vendors and play with your n800 devices and these cards a bit. Actually I'm surprised such big corporation has failed to perform proper testing.

Also as QA I can admit at least the following...

- Firmware with Skype detects my fingers poorly, slightly worse than 3.200 did. I'm unable to set up sensitivity to level where it detects my fingers as good as 3.200 did. Attempted to use settings slider, it did become better but still worse than in older firmware. But Nokia calls this improved screen sensitivity. Huh?

- Language swithing in on-screen keyboard is a total crap! If you're not US\UK citizen you'll have hard times. You have to use MENU to switch layout. And this menu is quite hard to navigate with fingers, even in full screen keyboard. Switching between Russian and English is a real pain in the ***** and you have to do this painful process FREQUENTLY if you're speaking two languages. I'm personally NEVER seen worse layout switching implementation... argh, wait a bit, Nokia mobiles use same ***** switching method. It is interesting if someone from Nokia corp writes in 2 different languages. Looks like it is not... :eek:

- Russian full screen keyboard layout is far from perfect. What a ***** idea to move some chars from main keyboard to extra tab! Hey guys, come on: move some chars from YOUR native language to additional keyboard tab, then try to use it. You will get the idea how stupid you were with this step. Annoying!

- Sound is sometimes getting interrupted under load. Looks like sometimes sound subsystem can't handle data in a REAL-time fashion. This even affects boot-up sound.

- Battery indicator sometimes performs strange in recent firmware with Skype. After heavy load it can immediately drop charge from "full" to "almost empty". You thinked battery full? Nope! Surprise! :P.

- Also, looks like low battery measurements somehow ineffective. Tablet can be able to boot into the OS and then ... immediately getting powered off (due to low battery). Without preforming proper shutdown sequence...

- Worse, NOLO boot loader not seems to check battery charge before proceeding with flashing. So it is up to user to ensure that battery full before flashing device. Actually boot loader should at least warn software that battery is too low or maybe even refuse flashing operation (at least without special confirmation). Not looks like this implemented. Also probably it is a NOLO loader who should refuse to boot OS if it detects battery low condition. But while NOLO part is poorly crafted it's also proprietary so nobody can fix this stupidity :mad:.

- Also NOLO does not allows to read flash image backup so if user does not likes update result he has to reinstall all from scratch anyway. Backups are not an answer. On PC you can use disk imaging software to backup your HDD to image file and once smth bad happens, return to working state with one-shot process.With n800 this is not an option.You can't dump kernel\file system backup copy easily. Especially if device no longer boots.

- Sometimes there is strange issues with tray area. Icons behave strangely a bit. For example connection indicator may display something but not a real connction status. Very rare issue, seems to occur when changing several connections in short time.

- Sometimes when you're using alarm clock tablet may occasionally hang on alarm event. I was not able to reproduce this well enough but seen couple of times.

- Built in player is slow as jerk in decoding and handles very few video formats. Mplayer is a way faster in video decoding and eats much more videos. Are there worse players on market? Nokia's players are crap, both in phones and n800 as well.

- And no, you can't just "File -> Open" in player and play desired video file. You have to use File Manager instead (surprise, yep, video player can't open video on it's own). What a ***** logic. Nokia's player imho one of the worst I ever seen.

- File manager may take a while to navigate on card with bug directory tree with lots of files.Imagine 20 folders, each with 500 photos, some subdirs, etc. Now try to browse it. What? It's so s-l-o-w in file manager!

- The same but executed over bluetooth to the phone's cars is SO slow and unstable that bluetooth link can die while "Updating..." popup appears for a minute or so. Effectively kicking you from device before you can really browse device's files. So sometimes you'll be unable to browse such directory tree over bluetooth at all.

- When you're about to view info on memory use on such card via control panel, info dialog uses CPU and RAM extensively while scanning card. Then all crashes to the hell due to out of RAM. At very best only according app crashes. But due to global RAM outage sometimes whole system may become unstable... :rolleyes:

- Wi-Fi AD Hoc mode setup is hidden so nice in connections wizard that virtually no users can complete Wi-Fi Ad-Hoc setup without some external hints. Lots of users thinks n800 is unable to use Ad-Hoc mode at all :mad:

- Some mechanical issues. Joystick is not the best thing ever. Try to play Doom if you do not think so. So you'll have chances to change your mind :D. Also external SD slot cover seems to be unreliable. I think it is possible to make metallic cover for decent 400 euros. But huh, cheap plastic instead in 400 euros priced device. Also, I wonder what a ***** has decided to hide USB jack so it can't be accessed easily? Pretty uncomfortable. And what? No USB charging? Phew, thank you, hardware designers! Ever tried to remove battery? No, do not use screwdriver, scissors or something. Try to do this with bare fingers, yep? Got some fun, no? :D.Also buttons like [+][Fullscreen][-] and others are far from 3.5 mm jack. Cool. Ever tried to switch track in player or adjust volume with these buttons? Pretty uncomfortable since they are far from 3.5 mm jack so you can't adjust this in the pocket, duh. You have to take device to the hands.

- There is lots of other funny issues as well :D

Argh, no panic, that's just small n800 ***-kicking from honest QA's view. If you think n800 suxx, relax. I can find something funny in [your favorite device or program here] as well, so it will look even worse for public :D

P.S. as for me: I'm personally would be VERY HAPPY to work for Nokia as full time QA employee on their Linux tablets to improve their quality if they will ever need some extra QA crew for Linux internet tablets (from my opinition, they do but their opinition can differ, he-he). Virtually I'm almost dreaming about this since I'm tired from working on proprietary projects and really preferring to spend my time working on open projects instead. While I'm used DOS and Windows for more than 10 years, I did occasionally discovered that I'm really prefer Linux for myself and that I do like open source apps and open source ideas. But sadly it looks like it is not an option here in Russia to apply and I'm not willing to move anywhere else, sorry. Why full time is better than just filing bugs on maemo? Because of free time issue as anyone can easily guess. As for me it is somewhat sad to spent lots of time on proprietary projects if there is chance to work on open ones so much.