Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

At least 5 years overdue, at least 100% over the original budget and at least 3mm thicker than the original specification are just three of a whole mountain of "at least"s. And there is still no sign of the light at the end of the tunnel. Any official updates from the development team have dried up ages ago.

Is there any point pretending the project is still alive and will at some point deliver? There was a discussion in the Neo900 announcement thread recently suggesting that the number of people still interested is dwindling. This poll is intended to put that assertion to the test. There are only two options, yes or no. The poll assumes that the respondent has preordered at least one Neo900 and still is/is not interested in the delivery. Please do not answer if you have not preordered as that would skew the results (which are probably skewed anyway as many people who have lost interest are probably no longer here and will not see it, but that is likely to skew the result in a positive way, towards "yes").

I cannot stop people posting general rants in this thread but that was by no stretch of imagination the intention. Please try to keep your emotions down.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Answered .

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Although I understand the curiosity and motivation to poll the community (or, as you mentioned, a biased part of the initial user base), I don't think it can do any good to the project. If it were that the project still had chances to succeed eventually, at a high price per unit, longer delay, all the poll is going to bring is yet another way to alter the motivation and commitment of its maintainers, and drag down the interest of the backers who still trust in the project.

We know that there will be only one valid answer to the poll: less people are interested today than initially. There won't be any relevant way discuss the total votes and the ratio because the numbers will inherently be biased to an unknown extent due to (1) eroded user base and community, (2) lack of knowledge about the project progress, remaining blockers and final price, and (3) unknown proportion of backers among the TMO active members. Since we can't really crunch any numbers but already know what the sign of the change likely is, a decrease in the number of confirmed backers, potentially - or not - underestimated by the poll, there is no real benefit in even trying to quantify. It will bring a lot of drama as to whether it is worth continuing or not, and will undoubtedly have a snowball effect when we realize we get 20 total votes, or by convincing those that still wanted to pay that the device will be obsolete or that the final cost will inevitably increase beyond reason because many already left the boat, making it even more pricey and difficult to finish. We will get a vicious circle just by asking a question that brings no new answer.

If Joerg and the team think the project can still be achieved (because they know better what is left to do, how much resources are left, how much is needed, whether the final price for an eroded list of clients would still make sense), then I don't think we, as a community who was either interested once or is still interested, should use more energy to hinder* the project than support it or just let it be. Of course, some will think that they have lost trust from the backers and that a claim that it can still be achieved would not be convincing enough, but their work so far, even if interrupted, could still bring something valuable to the mobile world.

* Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that you are purposely compromising the project Pichlo, the project didn't need anyone to be risky in the first place and it has always been a rocky road. However, all five or six people active on the Neo900 topic on TMO are doing with this poll or the Neo900 thread is ranting that they don't believe in the project anymore. It may be very justified, but in the end, no one will be refunded and no one will be forced to pay the other half, so it's a lose-lose situation if we help an already fragile project stalling. And maybe the project will stall anyway if too few want to commit to a finished device at a high cost, but Joerg and his team will still have achieved some work for the future, a proof of concept, demonstration that there was demand with backers, and they have communicated in meetings and congresses with peers the benefits of such a device. At a significant cost, sure, but the cost will remain the same whether our bitterness helps dragging the project down or not, so I'd rather focus of my last bits of enthusiasm and hope the project can still be completed and make a good use of our initial investment.

I won't say that I am not skeptical about the odds that the Neo900 will ship before I die of old age, but I know that my initial investment is either lost or dependent on the completion of the project, so I tend to prefer when the Neo900 project stays away from shitstorms and vicious circles, even if I wish there was just more communication to limit that. The project may have well deserved the critics at times, but this is not going to bring anything good to the team, the backers, the remotely interested people that just keep an eye on how the secure-hwkb-stylus-opensource device is doing, or my very selfish investment.

I want a device that respects privacy, fits in a pocket, is truly 100% open and come with a keyboard and a stylus, so I'm grateful they even considered that relevant and worked on it for years. I might have lost my bet, but not yet, so I am not going to discourage all involved parties by telling the team and the other backers that only a fraction of the initial backers still think that way. We all know it, and the poll will just add numbers that can hardly be discussed.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

not sure what we are trying to do here but it’s always fun with a vote. So...

I vote: No. simply bebouse I didn’t do the down payment but also since I would never go all in on a no matter what solution since I want to get what I’m paying for and billions of things can happen along the way.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Unfortunately I cannot list myself amongst those that are still interested in the Neo900. I will continue to wish them luck on their endeavors and absolutely no ill will.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Ah, Dave is here. He smells the refund.... But wait, this thread here did not mention anything about his most beloved word.

As well as pichlo explicitly mentioned that only peepz should vote who already pre-ordered a Neo900 to not derail the vote:

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._comica_62.jpg
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date..._comica_62.jpg

This sounds to me a bit like (in Germany we say) Vogel-Strauß-Taktik or Vogel-Strauß-Politik.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopf...n_Sand_stecken

There is absolutely no bad will or harm from pichlo meant.
But ... and now one could write lots of rants/reasons/reality ... I will only mention feasability.
If half or just a quarter is not interested the whole project is financially 'endangered'. Or are you willing to pay the double of the already high 'end-price' of 1000¿

(I would even not be sure if I were interested if shipping date would be tomorrow and price as estimated)

Also from my side no bad will and good speed for the project ...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I voted "Yes". Unfortunately, I cannot vote more than once - and I pre-ordered 7 devices. And discounting Dave's "No" vote as non-valid, it looks like 9 Yes, 6 No.

Thank you. Best wishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I came for the poll. Not the refund. I think it’s more you and others that want me to talk about refunds given the conversations :D

Sorry. I missed that note. On the other hand it should have bin more highlighted if that was important.

Thirdly. Everyone can go all in, down payment or not.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Translated: "I did not bother reading. I saw a thread title and a poll and my eyes lit up with dollar signs like in cartoons."

I have highlighted it now. Hopefully even good ole Davey cannot miss it now.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

This poll is about you. Do you want to hang on to the bitter end or not, regardless of how many devices you preordered. If you want to factor in the number of devices, feel free to create another poll. Better still, the Neo900 team should do it. But I somehow doubt they would since doing so would give a false impression that the end is nigh.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

For those thinking that a poll is a good thing or bad thing ..
for the project..

your view is not relevant.
Not in the slightest.

Considering the EXTREMELY over due nature of device completion and shipment.
And time being the actual issue not just in that but also in the device specs now being outdated, as well the continuance of issues relating to having to source new parts DUE TO the passage of time and suppliers moving on... as is the nature of things..
That is the presiding issue.
Time.

As I stated over in the neo thread in response to wiki's post...
Due to the passage of time..
there most certainly is not the original 200 pre orders ...now...who will commit.

It isn't about damaging or not damaging the project.
It isn't about vitriol or rant or opinion.

It is simply about fact.
Time.
So much has passed that the initial pre order number of committed people cannot possibly be anywhere near that figure now.

If some wish to be deluded into thinking that those numbers of devoted pre order individuals is immutable, fixed, never to change...
They are deluding themselves..
We are talking of human beings.
things change ...especially with the passage of so much time.

If some think "the pot is being needlessly stirred" ...
peter's pic says it all.
If there is officially nothing but silence from the project concerning said issues...then it is up to the investors to step up and ask questions...
When exactly should questions be asked that need answers?
Definitely everyone has been patient a VERY VERY LONG TIME now..
And most definitely the people putting money down for a device ...MOST DEFINITELY have paid for the right to ask honest questions that deserve honest answers...

Frankly there should have been continuous assessments and postings of the numbers of individuals who are still committed ...
and this should have been done long ago...like 2-3 years ago...
If such continuous updated postings had been done..
then everyone would be apprised of the situations ...as to whether or not we had the numbers of committed people still..
when we gained some or lost some...
and as a group of pre order investors could have offered SOMETHING in assistance ..however small to help out..
flog to my friends to pre order ..do something...

All I can say about it is ..
Such continuous assessments should have been done a long time ago...
The fact it is happening now ...is FAR better...than suddenly.. out of the blue...finding out the exact numbers of committed individuals and the consequent cost that they must bear for device completion.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

We have the same here, but I don't know, this idiom means hiding from reality is only making the ultimate outcome worse. In the case of the Neo900, we are not paying anymore unless the project is deemed feasible so the second down payment is a thing, and we will not be refunded for what we invested so far, so I don't think keeping some trust in it is doing any harm. The opposite, however, is certainly hurting the project by sending bad signals to the team or discouraging other backers.

I know, I said that, sorry if it was a bit lost in the middle of my wall of text. This is not what I meant, I only think that trying to bring numbers with a poll that can hardly be supported, trusted or analyzed is dangerous. We don't even know what percentage of the backers the TMO community represents, and how many are regularly reading TMO every week. Polls are meant to be subsamples, but when the bias is unknown, statistics may hide the real trends or even lead to wrong conclusions. Only a real poll undertaken by the Neo900 team itself to send emails to actual backers would be reliable, even if just a fraction of them answers, and in any case it is really hard to answer the question until we know what is the final price, something only them will be able to tell during the crowdfunding campaign and depending on its success.

Yes, but we know that, and this poll is not going to tell how many are still onboard.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I have many bad/good habits. One is that I don’t read walls of texts on www. Sometimes I miss important info but most of the time it’s save me from lots of stuff + free time.

Hope this poll survives even with my vote. More strange votes plz.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

This poll is no different than the initial poll of committed backers.
It is just an update as to who "remains " committed after so long.

As far as individuals from outside the forum who invested...
yes good point.
and yes ..
a more direct method of ascertaining EXACTLY who still is committed could and should be done by the neo team.
Rather ..it should be stated...that over the years it should have been done...a few times. So that everyone was continuously apprised of the situation.

So.
Here we are.
They (the neo team) didn't.
And finally a few here ARE actually asking pertinent questions that need answers.
The team still is silent ..with no official statements ..no official updates...no official answers to these questions.

There is no harm in this poll.
It will simply confirm the numbers of those committed or not committed who are still following the neo project from this forum.
So resulting numbers reflect that.

As far as not expecting a refund Kabouik...
you may not expect one.
But I most certainly do considering the project statement of pre order monies being considered a down payment...
and said monies have sat accruing interests in the bank for the last ump-tine years now...at a decent interest rate...
There is little doubt in my mind...that the team may chew through costs equating to the interest..and perhaps a bit into the principle...
but not everyone's total down payment as well.
I suggest you read up on the official statements concerning down payments.

Edit:
Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
"So much has passed that the initial pre order number of committed people cannot possibly be anywhere near that figure now."

"Yes, but we know that, and this poll is not going to tell how many are still onboard."

What?
The poll will tell us EXACTLY how many of the original 200 pre order committed individuals ..from this forum... are committed still.
At this moment the poll results speak volumes to the opposite of your statement that it will tell us nothing.
I know my vote..and I know...so far the vote of 14 others.
185 to go.

The poll ends new years eve.
By then ..it will be obvious ..
of those who follow the forum here...
who WERE committed years and years ago...
whether or not...NOW.... ARE committed.

subtract all the answers on new years day ...yea and nay... from 200.
and there you have the number of people who :
1- do not follow the forum here.
and/or
2- have abandoned their commitment and interest and moved on.
and/or
3- are too financially / real-world problem afflicted / infirm / died since the initial calculation of committed investors was done and cannot respond.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Having less than 200 votes here will not necessarily mean that the missing people gave up on the Neo900. They might have. It may even be likely. But they might just have not answered a poll in a forum they barely follow, asking them a question too difficult to answer until they know the release date and price.

Investing in the project was a gamble in the first place, but answering Yes or No to the poll at this time is like flipping a coin unless you already know for sure that you don't want the device and prefer to let go the initial down payment. Some people are in that situation, but not all, and even if Pichlo was very careful in the way he asked the question, the bias is still here and it is a lot more difficult to tell that you will wait and pay "no matter what" if you're a potential yay, than say no if you're a nay.

Finally, categories 1, 2 and 3 are not mutually exclusive, and users that fall in category 1 may or may not fall into the others, so I still believe it will be very hard to draw any sound conclusion from the outcome of the poll other than "some people lost interest". Even that would have only little relevance, since the plan is not to limit devices to those few backers, but demonstrate a working prototype thanks to their investment and use it to start a crowdfunding campaign. The objective is to involve new backers that wouldn't take the risk we took years ago, but would still pay for a Neo900 once its production is secured as long as the minimal crowdfunding goal is reached. If the team goes for one of this kickstarter/indiegogo plans where people can back the project and be refunded their money if the goal is not reached, then it seems very feasible to me to get new people commiting, as long as there is some media coverage about the only open and secure hwkb phone around.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

we will know just how many people from the forum who are still active here...voted ...by new years day.
the original poll here got 1000 members polled.
I think we can assume safely that a good 2/3 to 3/4 of the 200 people who pre ordered came from the forum here.
So let's wait and see shall we? Just how many come back to this poll...

However small or large the number...that number will have an impact.
and how they vote will have an impact.

If the neo team cannot or refuses to contact it's investors to keep apprised of their devotion to the project...
who is left to do it?

This kind of audit ...however limited as you may think (we will have some slight idea of end user cost .... by the numbers here who vote) has been LONG overdue.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

While this project will likely end in failure and it is much easier to become pessimistic and cynical, please don't give up your dream of a N900 successor. For now all you can do is use whatever technolgy you can to do as best as you can. But that doesn't mean you have to sell your soul to the other side....

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:/...z1qzsExGjET-8M

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Oh I believe in a linux alt.
and believe in a leste alt.
no fear there.
But I will either outright "buy" a completed and ready to ship device or build it myself...
Whether the neo ever is completed or not...
Never again will I ever back such an endeavour as this long drawn out nightmare..
Literally ...
Garden composting takes less time to finish..
Shakespearean death scenes take less time to finish.
And I will make sure all those around me are likewise warned away from such endeavours ...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Well, if it did nothing else, the poll confirmed that Dave999 is still among us, and still a rascal. Somehow, in my old age, I find that comforting.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Someone used my nick in the discussion about neo. So thats why I’m here to see what the fuzz is all about.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

The poll itself is somewhat provocative; "pay the ramaining cost, no matter what?"

I answered yes, however I am not planning on "no matter what", say, if the costs would run up to something I'd have to take a mortgage on I'd probably let it pass.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Yeaaaahh... I admit the poll is not very... umm... scientific. You can poke holes in it all day long. I would not give it a hoot myself if the results were like +/- 20%. But, as it stands now, 2x more for one answer than the other, the pattern emerges quite clearly, despite warts and all.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

frankly the wording is perfect.
No one is expecting an insane jump in cost....
perhaps a nasty jump...or perhaps a speed bump of a jump...perhaps no jump at all...
everyone knows that the end cost is fluid .

It is worded perfectly...

who is determined....right now.

ask me this question 1 year ago...2 years ago ...3 -4 years ago ...
I would have been with the determined camp...

come hell or high water.

Now..
well...
so much time has passed
and since my sentiment...
the world is going to pot...
and sea levels are rising..

so literally ...
hell AND high water have come.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Endso... I am not going to deny you the entertainment value of your post and I understand your frustration but... could you please do me a favour and try to keep the emotions down?

In return, I can offer you a 5% discount on the down payment on my current new project, a device for a turbulent massage. I am going to call it... drum roll... Mass Turbo 3000.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

@endsormeans

• nothing was buried maybe your memories of the time when the project started, it is a long time ago so this could happen
  
• You are no more interested to buy a neo900
  
• you don't want to offend people
  
• what is you intention then? With your behaviour you will achieve nothing
  
• please stop it, you going to far and you don't recognize it

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

at pichlo...
hahahahaha...
ahhh..the mass turbo 3000 ...that is a good one....

at halftux
ach!
I was getting a good laugh out of that....

* you are most likely right...the passage of time has me wondering exactly what I supported now.
* no more interested? that is an understatement.
* I don't want to offend the wrong people.
the right people however... considering ...we have all been taken for schmucks for literally years, for our money and for so long so many have been silent, not piping up and saying nary a word of valid concern or criticism...out of fear for the damage it may do to a project that has their money and has produced no end product.
* my intention was to have a laugh ..nothing more..
* For you Half I will...
But I swear...any more B.S. out of this farce of a project ...and there will be no sparing the rod from me...here or elsewhere.

for you guys...
I will remove it...

but for those who wish one ..
I do have it archived...and available now...
(disclaimer: estimated shipping of completed kits 6 to ? years...)

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I voted with yes.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

FWIW I also voted yes, with a caveat similar to juiceme's above (#22).

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Nice to see, erm read, you alive :o
Is your N900 still in working condition?
And what 'devil' is driving your daily calls? :D

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

(don't forget Leste along with your mentions..)

and to a great degree I concur...

focusing on os's that currently run or can run on the n900
and focusing on the next advancement in maemo ...Leste...
which has the prospect of functioning on more than just the n900...
THAT will increase community numbers, maintainership, advancements etc...
the more devices Leste can run on means those device owners and predominantly those other device OS end users have the option of running maemo and hence ...join our community...

Some may see my posts on the issue as inflammatory and such talk threatens the viability of the neo900 project.. and so shouldn't be spoken...
I disagree very strongly...

the math is apparent.

pinning our hopes that the neo900 will be the successor to the n900...let alone help to keep the community or forum or OS alive ...
are way past laughable...
It is visibly un-doable ...
there aren't the numbers of devices to be produced to sustain a community or forum...
regardless of the poll ..
regardless of "yes" or "no" numbers...
stalled at ~350 pre order devices ...was the last "known" state of the numbers pried out of the team....where is that number now? ...5 years now and going?
more than double that figure was needed for the cost to begin to be feasible for the initial pre order end user...
according to the same missive...for the project to even be "a go" to begin the "next stage"....
forget even the thought of completion...THAT is leagues away...

both numbers ~350 or ~800 ...aren't advancing any community...any forum ..or any OS ...
or supporting ...or maintaining...
It isn't even a holding pattern with those numbers...
it is community collapse...

Many can continue to think that it is somehow the only way ...or the best way...or another way..

the numbers say different.

If the neo through all adversity gets made...
it is not a successor ...it is a one off..
with numbers insufficient to support any community.
It is just a bunch of guys with very expensive unique devices....

Back to the issue...
If the bulk of the community cannot afford this mad expensive device..
IF it ever gets finished...
Then it is for an elite who can afford it...
meaning that EVEN were it to be a success it would immediately differentiate a wealth class of users here...
Those few who have the ability to throw countless piles of coins at a device...
and the rest who can't.

From the beginning when the estimated costs were mounting...
I was becoming uncomfortable with that inevitable schism...
that kind of class system representing those who have the luxury to afford ...
and the majority who cannot and are excluded ...
I have always been VERY MUCH against.

Linux at it's heart is meant for everyone...accessible to everyone...
Increasingly I see new devices introduced...
Not just the neo....there are others as well...
devices that separate the wealthy from the poor and middle class ..so the poor and middle class cannot afford to run a free operating system...
Yes the cost of an independent startup is expensive ..
and it is not intended evil...in the class separation that it incurs ..
but it ends up being an ugly ugly scenario I wish no part of.

Devices everyone can afford ...running Linux ...
should always be the mandate..
Not class separation...
and those who can afford it ...get it...
and the rest are out of luck.

I think it isn't about keeping silent not to disturb the fragile project ..
I think it is about a lot of money and a lot of hope and a lot of energy that has most definitely been backing the wrong horse...on the wrong race track in the wrong country on the wrong planet.
It is an epic waste of resource, time, effort (by everyone) and funds that could have been put FAR more meaningfully elsewhere.

If I had a time machine ...knowing what I know now...
I would not have literally dumped in a non refundable pile on the neo900 fire...
I would have waited for the Leste project and donated it all to it's furtherance...


Ultimately continuing on this self destructive community course....
If we have no devices inevitably ...to run maemo ON ...
and everyone is looking at the neo as a white knight saving the OS and community....
and giving bare attention to the REAL elephant in the room... the
real necessity of getting maemo onto multiple alternate devices....
for our continued survival and increase of our community numbers...

then this place will soon need to be renamed ...
to ...
"...[Insert Flavor-Of-The-Month-OS/Device-Name-Here] Forum

because it is only a matter of time...

So ...I agree with immi...
to a GREAT degree...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I fail to see why having hope that the Neo900 eventually happens would hinder the development of these OSes. I am very happy that Leste and Postmarket OS are progressing and supporting more devices than just the N900, and I think it's great for the community too, but that doesn't make me think that the Neo900 is an impediment.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Continue to ignore portions of a post and cherry pick as much as you like from a post to satisfy whatever mandate you wish...
It does not negate all the other valid and logical points of a post or posts.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

My three N900s are still alive and kicking.. but seldom used :(
"Thanks" to Whatsapp & co. I use a Motorola G3 already for a couple of years.
(my daugther (7) inherited the Jolla 1 and is very happy with it :)

Cheers!

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Good morning, everyone,
Reading your comments reminded me of the good old days of spending a lot of time on the forum with the Nokia N900. I'm glad to see that some are still here, and that they haven't lost their sense of humour.
I looked at the evolution of the Neo900 from a distance, I had to say that I was waiting to see how it would take shape. Was I right? I don't know, one thing's for sure is that I was interested. Am I still? It's hard to say. The question is, will it be able to keep up with today's technological standards?
As for the N900, mine is still alive. I use it as a multimedia box when I clean at home. lol. It helps me out from time to time when I want to change a little of android. But it is that the time of a few hours, technological limitations are quickly felt compared to our needs today.
All that to say that I'm still interested in the N900 and maemo, but more by the idea of focusing on OSes.
As Endormeans said, if it brings people back on the forum, and rebuild a community I'm a taker.

Note: Translated from https://www.deepl.com/translator, check this translator, it is amazing :D :D :D

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

English is not my native language, but as far as I understand, cherry picking implies selecting information to prove someone wrong while neglecting contradictory evidence. Is that really what I did here? I was replying to the last two posts, i.e., immi.shk's comment and yours (since you said multiple times that you concur with him) because he said:

I am *very* happy that these exciting OS projects exist and I hope they develop fast, far, will be long maintained, and will attract as many people on TMO as possible. However, we can leave the Neo project all we want, that doesn't mean there will be more people working on the OSes (the Neo900 might even marginally contribute to the relevance of these alternative OSes).

This was my only point. Getting into a quote war for that would not do any good, in fact I don't even have any specific comments, or rebuttal list to come up with. Just wanted to say that the continuation of the Neo900 project and the development of PostmarketOS/Leste/DebiaN900/Arch for N900 are not mutually exclusive choices, and I believe presenting them as a crossroad is actually more fallacious than me posting a general comment without quoting what made me post it.

Now this is just my opinion and I'm genuinely happy to discuss or change my mind if I am missing something, I am not fighting, and I'm sorry to see the hostility in your last replies.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

there is no hostility..
and there is no fight..

I have seen every argument pro and con over the years ...
and I have either said or heard every legitimate logical rebuttal there is..

In fact I said "to a great degree I agree.."with immi..
I do not fully or totally or absolutely agree with the opinion of abandonment of the neo project..
That shouldn't quite be up to us ..that kind of decision should first come from the project team ....

In fact ordinarily I would agree that os and device projects are great and not mutually exclusive..

the only hindrance I see to it is this:

every time a project that money has been dumped into here..
or even actual device produced ..
it either
A- falls apart before final product is achieved
or
B- succeeds... yet falls apart a different way through lack of foresight and follow through.. where the continued support and advancement from the finished product wasn't thought out..and hence abandoned...

This community has seen a lot of both ...from small enterprise and very large corp.
and it damages the community with every fail.
The list of members here who have commented on just that fact ..is long.
The difference with the neo project is..
the neo project hasn't just upped and folded...
Like all of them..

it hasn't stopped..
it goes into limbo for half a year or year ...quasi comes back ...to repeat the process...over again..
I cannot say that that makes it easier on people ..and I refer to everyone ...team or supporters or everyone else in the community...

A typical cycle that runs here is....
1 - project starts...
2 - project succeeds ...(but fails later with support / advancements)
or
2.1 - project fails...
3- time elapses ...
4- wounds heal...we get our feet back underneath us...get our second wind..
5- new different project announced..
6- we are ready to throw our best at it again.
7- rinse ...
8- repeat..

with the neo there has been no downtime to recover ...
it is an always present limbo

Bad enough it is when a project brings hope and doesn't make it...
That is hard...yup..but it is understandable...

But a project that never ever finishes...but keeps going ...with no end in sight..
That isn't better on the community psyche .

some would say that the damage done is by saying something to trouble the waters casting doubt ...that the Neo project should be given a limitless chance..
the flip side of this coin is that ...
the continuance of having a project never conclude is even more damaging...with far reaching ramifications to the community support of (completely un-associated) other projects in the future.

The neo has/had a right to take it's best shot and do it's best..
The neo project does not have a mandate to leave everyone in a state of limbo hampering the next project , setting future projects back, and damaging community belief in the furtherance of future projects ..

I cannot speak for others...
But this never ending neo has definitely impacted my immediate future backing of any project for a long time to come.
If someone came up with a great device right now and asked for backing...even if it was 200% foolproof and failproof..
I wouldn't. ...Most likely never again
If someone came up with a device and said it is done and for sale...
I still may not rise to it .

That is the collective impact of past project fails..
and the never ending current one.
on me...

Others may feel the same or differently ..

But really..the impact here goes beyond ..just ...
"support" or "don't"...

the long term impact on the community ..
is still playing out with this no-end-in-sight "neo dynamic"...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

There are indeed countless examples on TMO of the cycle you describe, but it also is due to the fact that we are a small community to start with, and a community left with no device upgrade in years. This inevitably means developers are hard to keep on the long term, and even those that were very dedicated to Maemo/Meego/Sailfish may eventually stop maintaining their applications because the userbase is nearing zero, or because they need to use another OS or device for their personal use and can't be on every front at the same time.

To me it's a tad harsh and unforgiving to accuse the Neo900 to bear even the slightest responsibility for this vicious circle. The project is long overdue, and as time passes, its added value decreases (there will still be benefits in using a Neo900 though), communication has been a chronic issue, funding for final success is extremely uncertain, and the performance boost we wanted won't be ground-breaking now that we've been used to more performance. That I agree, but if we had to name what are the prime factors responsible for the erosion of the TMO community, I would certainly think about our beloved Stephen Elop, as well as the many companies that disregard anything that is not Android and therefore decide for us what one can or cannot do if not using the mainstream OS that generates the most profit per developer work hour*. The economic reasons are obvious and understandable, but the statement stands that it is not a step in the right direction for diversity beside Google and Apple, and for the long term health of the TMO community overall. The never-ending Neo900 project may contribute to losing faith among TMO members, but it's hard to support with evidence. Actually, the Neo900 is one of reasons why I keep checking TMO over the years (there are others, I'm still a Sailfish user and Maemo lover) because I will always be excited about any progress on this front even if it turns out I can't pay the final price; I will still think making this device happen will be an improvement for user privacy and a message showing that some people demand it.

Your willingness to invest money and kickstart a TMO-compliant project has been severely impacted, that is a very interesting point indeed. Many users have also invested in the Jolla Tablet, and/or its Youyota rebirth, and it's true that many have said they won't get tricked a third time. This is something I overlooked and you are right that the long Neo900 project is not helping, however I'm not totally certain that an announcement of a final and definitive failure would make those who invested feel better about future projects. At least at the moment there is still some hope, and the money was not stolen, which is kinda comforting.

* : I can't even pay parking in my 70k-inhabitant town without an Android device, and this town is on an island where free parkings do not exist. At all. How stupid is that. Then there are bank applications, some of them are mandatory to actually confirm transactions because the websites are by design meant just for monitoring while the phone is the key to interact. In the end, your OS can dictate if you can drive and park a car in your town, if you can improvise a bus trip instead (paper tickets are only available in selling points here, not in buses, only the Android application allows buying e-tickets at any time), what bank you can use, and we all have other examples of our own of applications that we want or even need, but can't use. These are some of the external pressures on the TMO community, together with the obsolescence of our devices (Neo900 tries/tried to do something here) and lack of official maintenance of Maemo/Meego and base applications (there is hope with Leste, Mer, PostmarketOS), everyday decreasing the number of users, developers and maintained applications. I doubt internal pressures like the Neo900 delays are causing significant population drops in comparison.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

The Neo900 should happen, anyway.

Any hope to escape the Android prison would benefit in some small way
by whatever even a mere 67% success would achieve.

There is no downside to launching the Neo900.

Even now, so many years later,
the n900 is still the pinnacle to beat
which nothing on the market even comes close to.