maemo.org - Talk

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Community (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=100985)

biketool 2020-03-17 12:41

Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
TMO being a hive of hackers and me enjoying far out scenarios in fiction; I though I would post some alternative data channel ideas if some sort of virus/zombie/society crash related emergency leaves you without Internet(vs unimportant stuff like food, shelter, medical, and civil society protections)

*Othernet, requires specialized receiver but cheap to buy(North America and Europe beams) wikipedia articles, news, weather, all outnet tagged amateur packet radio service messages, and streaming satellite radio.(edit) talked to the head of the lab, apparently they can get a signal up to the transponder even mobile with nothing other than a car power system(5amp@12v) using a 60cm dish, but it is preferred that they be in contact with the satellite operator, it is a pretty narrow signal so doesn't need much power even to GEO, they have no assigned direct feed partner in the Europe satellite though so like they normally do for North America they let SES do the upfeed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outernet

*Toosheh, mostly a bridge for Middle East and Iran area footprint to bypass local internet censorship and shutdown, uses cheap common FTA DVB-S2 receivers with a PVR save to USB, use the PVR to record the white screen to a USB flash drive, remove flash drive and read files with the decoder app, view or use the programs, and media which was embedded in the recorded downstream.
Includes files, video, audio and news. English, Spanish, Arabic, Persian. 2 GB of information daily 1M/s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toosheh

This is all I could find for free offline internet-like data service delivered to Ku band satellite dish or bare aimed LNB, but I recall there being other narrow band and full channel satellite data stream services for offline communities, I must be using the wrong search criteria. I hope more crop up and do not require anything past a LNB DVB-S/S2 FTA receiver or a DIY rigged RTL-SDR and bias-T to power the LNB.
__________________________________________

Other options of interest but not really a live stream updating a local cache like Internet users would expect

*Amateur radio satellite, not much data possible beyond checking in with your callsign and greeting other users, certainly not a data stream. Except for QO-100 the passes are quite fast and only a few a day. The package on the space station is sometimes turned to the BBS where you can post a message like old dialup BBS mails. You can build the equipment yourself especially the antennas and duplexers.
https://www.n2yo.com/satellites/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_satellite
https://amsat-uk.org/beginners/how-do-i-start/

*Globalstar, there are several modem options for ~$100 which require a serial connection or microcontroler to operate, if you want to buy a COTS device there is the SPOT Satellite Messenger which connects to a SMS or email gateway. It all uses the underutilized Globalstar LEO satellite network is a low rate simplex data (uplink only) on the L-band transponder. The service is monthly and with a microscopic data plan is a few dollars after activation fee.

*For local(several km)terrestrial there is Disaster Radio, think amateur radio packet service but run over unlicensed LoRa hardware. Chained up into a networ this can cover a very large area, wifi or bluetooth network hotspots possible at every node.
https://disaster.radio/

*More rx only projects are possible with a central transmitter broadcasting general interest BBS like data and received with DVB-T dongles with a hacked debug mode driver aka RTL-SDR or other demodulators.

*If we are down to sneaker-net(carrying data around, imagine the data bandwidth of a station-wagon blasting down a highway loaded with data tapes or flash drives, ping time sucks though) then something like Briar which can spread a message or forum post without Internet by virally spreading it's data via bluetooth and wifi meshing. Sadly no Maemo or Meego client software.
https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/

*For the N900 there is Evopedia but the last wikipedia and wikivoyage en dump is from 2013; still useful to me. For win/lin/mac computers and recent android mobile devices there is Kiwix; you can get recent dumps in ZIM format at wikipedia or the kiwix site.
https://www.kiwix.org/en/
https://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/kiwix/zim/wikipedia/

*If you have a modem you could make a dialup BBS but the hardware has become uncommon. Lacking a modem you could make a serial modem with an arduino or similar microcontroler, a resistor network DAC and some low to high impedance matching. If you are this capable at winding coils and transformers you could also make a data network which runs on a neighborhood loop of wire and earth grounds similar to the old Texas fence line telephone networks or sound powered (electrical) telephone systems on warships. making a accoustic coupler for your soundcard output and work too without needing much special equipment, an amateur radio PSK-31 program or similar will let you stream slow data over the phone or radio.

*For mobile offline I recommend having a good audiobook collection as it takes up more time but less space than movies as well as some language learning mp3s which have big re-listen potential, audiobooks also don't require battery power for lighting your screen.

*Drifting far from topic there is also the utility of having a pack of cards, a harmonica, a handful of dice, some game place markers, paper, and a few paperback books if you don't have a smart way to charge your digital devices you can always read, play RPGs, or play your own music.

*I am a big advocate for amateur radio, look for a cheap Pixie QRP kit ($5-8 w/free deliver or make from components), solder it together and be in contact via morse code with your whole continent while powered by 8 AA batteries or a car lighter socket. A resonant fraction of 40m wire to make a dipole antenna(20+20m=1/2wave dipole or 10+10m for 1/4wave etc), it all fits in your shirt pocket. I think this base design is ripe for upgrades including a cheap DDS tuner to cover the band, and an audio notch filter to 'fix' the wide receiver(too many morse code signals to easily hear one transmitter but is good to listen to voice or data) https://www.newenglandqrp.org/nescaf/
The only part you need to order is the LTC1060 you can get the common 555 timer and LM386 audio amp IC as well as other components from an electronics or radio shop.
Add some high power finals and program an attiny chip as an autokeyer and you can be master of CW on the 40m band or whatever band you mod the design for. I have on that I made on one board from components, it works great and I can listen to shortwave and SSB too. Get your license(not sure about current testing situation) and you can morse code a message, even dictate an email message to be sent for you or patch a voice call over telephone lines.

I am curious if anyone else has more zombie apocalypse, rural offline, or just used up data plan data chanels both for rx only and rx/tx.

Boxeri 2020-03-17 18:26

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Just wow from me :eek:

biketool 2020-03-18 07:23

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxeri (Post 1566123)
Just wow from me :eek:

If you think those are interesting you should look into RFC 1149.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
A very high bandwidth wireless protocol but with high ping times.
(edit)
You can also eat your packets if they are too laggy.

Thoke 2020-03-18 20:56

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by biketool (Post 1566125)
If you think those are interesting you should look into RFC 1149.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
[...]
You can also eat your packets if they are too laggy.

It would be fun times pinging and doing a traceroute, but I guess if it comes to it....

EDIT: let's ping google with a proper ping tool that does not stop at 4 replies (unlike Windows) and receive UNLIMITED birds!

EDIT2: Aww, I found out ping also sends multiple echo requests as does the target does with echo replies, so no unlimited birds, then :(

pichlo 2020-03-19 08:31

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
What would the RFC 1149 ping packet be called? Pingeon?

biketool 2020-03-19 11:13

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1566135)
What would the RFC 1149 ping packet be called? Pingeon?

Think UDP, broadcast only, no return pingeons possible.

biketool 2020-03-19 11:23

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thoke (Post 1566130)
It would be fun times pinging and doing a traceroute, but I guess if it comes to it....

EDIT: let's ping google with a proper ping tool that does not stop at 4 replies (unlike Windows) and receive UNLIMITED birds!

EDIT2: Aww, I found out ping also sends multiple echo requests as does the target does with echo replies, so no unlimited birds, then :(

Grocers and Network Admins Hate Him!!
Internet hacker exposes shocking secret trick to get unlimited pigeons and flash media... For free!

biketool 2020-03-19 11:35

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
This thread really exposes the few exceptions to using commercial mobile, WiFi, and wired to the home data services, almost exclusively routed directly to tcp/ip internet.
Back in the 80s and early 90s we had local dialup BBSs, active packet radio like ALOHAnet(there is still limited ham radio APRS), various non internet mega-BBSs like Compuserve, etc.
Now offline we have cable and satellite TV, CD/DVD/Blueray media, local TV and radio and they are all directly decoded to video and/or audio for news and entertainment; newspapers, books, and magazines too but those seem to be going away. Who ever mails a first class letter anymore? I think only old people get newspapers and magazines; utility vs trash accumulation. How many of us remember getting 'programs' in computer magazines or at the computer shop printed out in a ziplock bag or envelope ready to be typed as Basic code into our home computer.
The thread just put me in mind of searching for fun and interesting non-internet data streams I could take advantage of, even just for hobby.
I am the kind of guy who has to resist wearing both a mechanical dive watch and my Pebble, I hate single point of failure.

juiceme 2020-03-19 15:11

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by biketool (Post 1566142)
...I think only old people get newspapers and magazines; utility vs trash accumulation.

Thanks for aging me!:eek:
I subscribe to one daily paper, one weekly paper and 6(!) magazines!!

teroyk 2020-03-19 15:35

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by biketool (Post 1566116)
*For the N900 there is Evopedia but the last wikipedia and wikivoyage en dump is from 2013; still useful to me.

Where you find that dump for Evopedia? I try to find it some moths ago and I only find death links.

biketool 2020-03-19 16:09

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by teroyk (Post 1566144)
Where you find that dump for Evopedia? I try to find it some moths ago and I only find death links.

I have Eng Wikipedia and Eng Wikivoyage from 2013. Do you have a server I could upload it to for you?
(edit)
Not saved on internet archive, I doubt the torrent is still seeded in any case.

Maemish 2020-03-20 09:36

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
I thought of what would be the best way to use drones for short time transmission link points? Like installing some extra battery plus a link point, fly it high, remotely start the transmitter, remotely stop it and fly the drone back. Could easily also hide the exact location if needed for some reason. Drones can fly quite high so the angle for the signal could cover a wide area.

juiceme 2020-03-20 10:15

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maemish (Post 1566150)
I thought of what would be the best way to use drones for short time transmission link points? Like installing some extra battery plus a link point, fly it high, remotely start the transmitter, remotely stop it and fly the drone back. Could easily also hide the exact location if needed for some reason. Drones can fly quite high so the angle for the signal could cover a wide area.

I think the limited flight-time might cause some problems. Unless you just want to fly it up, fire off a rapid stream of messages and bring it back down. Not really suitable for a browser esperience.

biketool 2020-03-20 10:17

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maemish (Post 1566150)
I thought of what would be the best way to use drones for short time transmission link points? Like installing some extra battery plus a link point, fly it high, remotely start the transmitter, remotely stop it and fly the drone back. Could easily also hide the exact location if needed for some reason. Drones can fly quite high so the angle for the signal could cover a wide area.

I flew a prototypes that could in theory do a few hundred NM(nautical miles=1852 m, aviation uses feet, knots, and nautical miles) using fixed wing vs helicopter design, it used a two stroke magneto fired gasoline motor. It was to do small 1-2kg for-fun deliveries or dropping survival or medical equipment to located but remote rescues recovering the whole aircraft by parachute, I had some inertial guidance systems I had built when I worked at the university rocket lab as well as GPS receivers to keep the drift away. I had a fully tested module to read from aviation VOR beacons but didn't finish the code to triangulate and place onto a map as I had one working receiver complete. We converted a gunn diode doppler radar to compare the difference between several radar angles for a terrain following radar which we never fully finished but did test a few times strapped to a wing support of a Cessna 172.
http://psas.pdx.edu/

I had thought it would be fun to make a V-1 style pulsejet drone but while it could be cheap and quite quick they waste propane fuel like crazy. There are youtubes of an Australian guy and his pulsejet drones.

The class will compute the expected maximum bandwidth in MB/s of a drone data service with a single drone in operation at any time, drones flying at an average of 40kts carrying 2kg of 128G microSD cards(2g each) between two cities 150NM apart with an average 15 minute recover, unload, reload, refuel, and launch turnaround time.

pichlo 2020-03-20 12:23

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1566151)
I think the limited flight-time might cause some problems. Unless you just want to fly it up, fire off a rapid stream of messages and bring it back down. Not really suitable for a browser esperience.

Indeed. A balloon might be a better solution.

xelo 2020-03-20 18:07

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
* https://www.project-owl.com/

Which looks like disaster.radio

teroyk 2020-03-21 06:07

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by biketool (Post 1566145)
I have Eng Wikipedia and Eng Wikivoyage from 2013. Do you have a server I could upload it to for you.

How big they are about?

biketool 2020-03-21 16:39

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xelo (Post 1566156)
* https://www.project-owl.com/

Which looks like disaster.radio

OK, they look to be nearly the same ESP32 with LoRa add on boards to access the Duck(WAN) side of the network, the onboard ESP32's wifi is for local users to access the network.

biketool 2020-03-22 10:29

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
After git cloning Disaster Radio's Git
https://github.com/sudomesh/disaster-radio
I was looking to clone Project owl too, they link to their git but it is empty, too bad...
https://github.com/Project-Owl
But stuff like Owl is exactly what I am looking for in this thread, show me networks that don't need telco/mobile provider corporation internet.
I have a handful of ESP32s and some LoRa modules so I might get around to building a few DIsaster Radio nodes.

Match something like Disaster Radio with something like Othernet earth station, some sort of network file sharing, maybe some chat, mail, and discussion forums and you have a useful BBS with updates over the satellite network.

biketool 2020-03-22 18:07

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maemish (Post 1566150)
I thought of what would be the best way to use drones for short time transmission link points? Like installing some extra battery plus a link point, fly it high, remotely start the transmitter, remotely stop it and fly the drone back. Could easily also hide the exact location if needed for some reason. Drones can fly quite high so the angle for the signal could cover a wide area.

As for airborne hotspots there is project loon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon
Google has experimented in atmospheric balloon 'communication satellites' operating at near-space high altitude which cover huge areas and don't cost much to operate. Standard mobile telephony and data technology are used and a special Loon SIM card allows access when a balloon is up.
It might be difficult for an individual or small group to operate such a service as while amateur radio has the legal power to achieve the 18-25km minimum range without specialized antennas encryption and internet access(a commercial product) are not allowed. Unlicensed modes; even LoRa don't have the range without directional antennas. Even then there is civil aviation permits and transponder equipment required for unmanned balloons as well as recovery issues.

biketool 2020-03-22 18:40

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by teroyk (Post 1566162)
How big they are about?

~18gb for wikipedia English and ~70mb for wikivoyage En, both from 2013.

teroyk 2020-03-24 07:02

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by biketool (Post 1566169)
~18gb for wikipedia English and ~70mb for wikivoyage En, both from 2013.

It is smaller than I expected, but ofcourse it is too big to get it through Wetransfer Free, except with multipacking to 2 GB parts with Rar or Arj. Anyway it should multipacking, if put to ftp, because some times comes download error.

But It would be nice that somebody can share that file to anothers too, Has somebody server that can share multipacks of total size 18 GB?

biketool 2020-03-24 09:53

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by teroyk (Post 1566189)
It is smaller than I expected, but ofcourse it is too big to get it through Wetransfer Free, except with multipacking to 2 GB parts with Rar or Arj. Anyway it should multipacking, if put to ftp, because some times comes download error.

But It would be nice that somebody can share that file to anothers too, Has somebody server that can share multipacks of total size 18 GB?

I am going to try to get access to a machine I can put a torrent seed on. I can't seed form home as I am on mobile right now.
If I can make this work I will post it the Evopediathread, anyone with real seeding ability please seed and upload to wherever you can as this seed, assuming I can convince a home user to host a r-pi on their network will be a short term situation at best.
https://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?...&postcount=191
17.53gb tar.gz, here is the magnet to load into your torrent app:
aa30216ac624d51d66ee443df1557c117a8b64ab
Please seed, a precarious situation for this torrent, hosted on a rasberry pi zero on someone else's personal internet connection, I only have reluctant permission.
Please coment if you are having difficulties, first time for me making a torrent.
This is a tar.gz of a .torrent file serving up a .tar.gz so a loopy name in the end....

teroyk 2020-03-26 13:53

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Corona days Sneakernet is slowing down:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet

In 90s CAB Browser had ability make CD-ROMs from web and if you transfer those CD-ROMs to offline Atari with CAB, you could browse that web from CD-ROMs..ofcourse that time web-pages was well designed for offline browsing.

biketool 2020-03-27 06:30

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by teroyk (Post 1566254)
ofcourse that time web-pages was well designed for offline browsing.

You just need to get creative and use bow and arrows or something to get high band wireless data through to your neignbors, without accidently killing their cat.

I hate web 2.0 it is what made older devices so damn slow or like our N900s almost completely useless for wb browsing. I was able to surf websites with my old Palm III over IR and Handspring Visor with an Intel wifi pod(it had its own internal battery) damnit!

ste-phan 2020-03-28 06:09

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by biketool (Post 1566276)
You just need to get creative and use bow and arrows or something to get high band wireless data through to your neignbors, without accidently killing their cat.

I hate web 2.0 it is what made older devices so damn slow or like our N900s almost completely useless for wb browsing. I was able to surf websites with my old Palm III over IR and Handspring Visor with an Intel wifi pod(it had its own internal battery) damnit!

Well understood the lack of usability but the damn slow is also your advantage:
One wrong click slip of the mouse can still be corrected before the evil script is executed.
Web 2.0 will not last.
Please don't hesitate or stop complaining to help-desks about their monthly changing layouts.

-why your website is hosted on a server on the other side of the ocean can't you find & support local hosting services?
-why you changed the layout to less efficient and childish last week, I waste my time trying to find my way over and over
-why a professional service website has to depend on Google Analytics / other metrics?
-how much money is leaking monthly to a web development team implements changes "improvements & optimizations" only to prove their money's worth?
-Please decide on what works, then hands off the interface, minimize scripts & 3rd party links and focus on optimizing security.

Cost saving is in knowing when to stop your "web development" before it turns in non nonsensical scripting and bloating ...

Sorry for web developers around here, but this is my opinion as a frustrated user of online shops, bank, shipping, trading web sites from non-Chrome browser with a couple of the common security filters enabled.

xelo 2020-03-28 16:37

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by biketool (Post 1566167)
After git cloning Disaster Radio's Git
https://github.com/sudomesh/disaster-radio
I was looking to clone Project owl too, they link to their git but it is empty, too bad...
https://github.com/Project-Owl

Yes you are right. Initially the code has been in this repo: https://github.com/Code-and-Response...rDuck-Protocol and the repo https://github.com/Project-Owl was empty, when I checked it too. In the meantime they seem to pulled the code to the https://github.com/Project-Owl repo.

nthn 2020-03-28 21:52

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
It depends on how 'down' we're talking about, but you may be interested in i2p, Freenet and other distributed/mesh networking software.

biketool 2020-03-30 16:39

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nthn (Post 1566318)
It depends on how 'down' we're talking about, but you may be interested in i2p, Freenet and other distributed/mesh networking software.

Down can have many definitions, all pose fun and interesting engineering and/or social hacks to get the data through.
There is the Iran/China blockaded behind a wall, other places where the bandwidth is super low or unreliable, and of course natural disasters or social disorder which break physical data transmission infrastructure. I like to play with all of them because it is way more interesting to try to say compute an overpass and shoot the space station and leave a message on the BBS than it is to click a 'Download Now' link.
Like expensive mechanical watches I suppose it is complication for complications own sake.

biketool 2020-04-03 13:14

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4824
IP over flag semaphore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_semaphore
It was an April fools thing back in aught-seven.

teroyk 2020-04-03 14:56

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by biketool (Post 1566530)
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4824
IP over flag semaphore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_semaphore
It was an April fools thing back in aught-seven.

It is high quality April fool. I think it's really working in theory, but like it says:
"bit error rates are expected to be in the range of 1e-3 (boy scout) to 1e-4 (professional sailor)"

teroyk 2020-04-06 07:17

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
How about offline Maemo application repository? Can I make it work from SD-card?

peterleinchen 2020-04-06 10:42

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by teroyk (Post 1566667)
How about offline Maemo application repository? Can I make it work from SD-card?

Sould be more or less easily doable.
Having the repo on SD and sharing via e.g. PyHttp server, pointing your repos to local server...

mp107 2020-04-06 11:05

Re: Offline Data Options incl Satellite, for Internet Down Situations
 
Debian (or rather - APT package manager) has a feature of adding repository from ISO file - apt-cdrom. I suppose the same should be possible on Maemo.


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:01.

vBulletin® Version 3.8.8