N800 vs iPod touch
 

I really can't decide which to buy. I'm getting this primarily to browse the web, read ebooks, listen to Internet radio, and possibly watch movies. I might get a Bluetooth keyboard for a little note-making when out and about too.

Here are the pros and cons of each, as I see them. Please chip in with anything I might have missed:

iPod touch: Pros

• Cheaper than the N800 here in the UK by about £40 ($80)
• Faster processor than the N800, so no video lag and generally snappier system response
• 8 or 16GB storage as standard, compared to 128MB of an N800
• Legendary Apple ease of use and attention to detail, such as pinching for zoom, or flipping to switch to landscape mode
• Integration with iTunes (not a biggie for me)

iPod touch: Cons

• No Flash or RealPlayer support, although this might come later
• Closed system, although everybody is betting that the touch will be hacked soon, to the extent that some of the more useful iPhone apps will be copied across, including the Maps app
• Memory not expandable
• Crappy Apple hardware that'll turn-up with niggling faults, and then die the day after the warranty runs out
• No built-in speakers
• No internet radio support?

N800: Pros

• Genuine computer, rather than a media player with ambition (Apple has made it clear that they don't envision the touch as a PDA but as a media player with some lifestyle extras)
• FM radio receiver built in
• Open hardware, so installing new software is a legitimate and encouraged
• Tonnes of additional software
• Better screen resolution than the touch
• Better browser? (Subjective, personally I like Safari)
• Comes with that useful stand so can be used on a desktop, maybe as a second browser window alongside your main computer (can a VNC server be installed on the N800? Then it could even be controlled from a desktop computer too!)
• Built-in speakers
• Bluetooth keyboards work with it (touch has only a limited Bluetooth implementation)

N800: Cons

• Slow processor; good enough for everyday use but you're at the limit of its power
• Limited memory and storage, although expansion slots provided and inexpensive
• More expensive than the touch here in the UK
• Rough at the edges operating system, although usable
• Poor battery life at only 3-4 hours with heavy wifi use

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Is this the Ipod touch?

http://media.arstechnica.com/journal...0/IMG_7774.jpg

If yes I wouldn't buy it since a screen in horizontal format is better to browse the web when it comes to screens up to 5". Not to mention that the Ipod touch screen is probably smaller anyway.

What about the WiFi reach? I can imagine that the N800 WiFi card is better.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Er, maybe you should watch this short video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7jdUbIi7H8

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

That's what the accelerometers are for.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

This weekend the N800 just dropped $100.00 on the online sites. Was about $350.00 and is now $244.00. Perhaps it will drop over there soon.

To me it seems 3-4 hours WITH wi-fi use seems okay. Doesn't that mean I'll get 6-8 hours watching movies or listening to music and NOT using the Wi-Fi? BTW: The navkit's remote GPS unit uses the same battery as the N800.

I also considered the iPod... but one of my goals was a portable PDF reader. That means a bigger screen is better. (Up to a point.) I also like the while open platform idea.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Ive been a n800 user since a while... and the n800 trumps the touch in all departments.

The stereo speakers are a big addition for watching youtube videos with uktube.
Internet streaming is like the having a 100gigs of space with songs... seriously the mind boggling no. of internet streams(free) along with the element of surprise makes internet radio wonderful.
Support for bluetooth headphones. Again i cant imagine how apple did not include a2dp support?? Seriously an mp3player in 2007 without a2dp..... that sucks
I dont know whay people like itunes?? For me i just take the memory card and put it in the slot of my computer and drag and drop whateve r i want. Remmember i can do this on any computer without being stuck to onlyone.

As far as touch is concerned.... the only adavantage it has is eyecandy. NIce Ui.... but after 5 days of use any ui is going to be the same and the time it takes to operate a touch after 5days is going to be the same for n800. The ui is good for non tech savy people who dont spend time to get to know the device. SO the difference in UI is nullified after 5days of use.
After that its pretty much the features you have. In that department apple sucks big time.
Regarding the pinching zoom and rotation of the screeen.... that is all eye candy and zero percnetage of use. Infact the pinch needs two hands to hold the touch and the ohter hand to pinch. But in the n800 it can be done with a single click!!!!

With the recent price drop to 240$ the n800 also negates teh price difference.

But the next tablet is coming soon... you might want to see what it has to offer!!!

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

The N800 is great for your needs, but I find the PDF ability lacking. It seeminly takes "forever" to load the next page of a PDF because it seems to need to render and load every page. I get frustrated with it all the time. I;'ve used Evince and the built in pdf reader.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

I've got both, although admittedly I've only had the Touch for a week, but I'd have to say that for browsing and net radio, the N800 is fantastic. The Touch's screen is much smaller, and not nearly as good for browsing. Not having a stylus makes it hard to click on links without going throught the process of pinching the screen to expand it, then clicking on the links etc.

On the other hand, the Touch is far better for watching movies, and the battery lasts long enought to watch a whole film - unlike the N800.

Overall I find the Touch boring. With the N800 you can add all kinds of applications so it's a new device every day. The Touch is fine if you want music and movies but its so frustrating that you can't add anything. The N800 is really a much better device.

That's my 10ps worth!

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

I've been researching the N800 quite heavily. I've read reviews, scoured these forums, watched YouTube videos...

And what you say about the N800 reaching end-of-life rings true with me. I can't bring myself to spend £240 (circa $480) to get one when I know that there will likely be a new model before March 2008 (not just a Wimax upgrade but possibly the N900). The chances are this will be brought right-up-to-date with a faster processor and more storage, especially considering Nokia can't have failed to feel Apple breathing down their neck.

On the other hand, frustrated by a lack of FM radio reception in my kitchen on a daily basis, and with a stack of ebooks I'd like to read, I really fancy getting an N800 :rolleyes: The N700 is still available here in the UK, with a GPS kit, for around £150. But I've heard that if I think the N800 is slow, I'll be turned into a murderous madman by my frustration waiting for the N700 to do anything :(

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Ipod touch:
-no bluetooth
-small screen
-quicktime movie only
-no flash
-bye-bye.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

These aren't stocks: you don't buy on rumors. Buy on what they can deliver now. If they can't deliver what you want, wait until they can: you'll save money and frustration.

All reports say that the Touch's browsing experience is superior. Well, some nutjobs prefer the n800's.
The screen rotation on the touch would be supercool to have on the n800: I don't need accelerometers, but a "landscape/portrait" switch would be nice. The 800x480 screen has an awesome resolution for reading, but you have to read widescreen (newsflash: texts are printed portrait mode).

come to think of it, accelerometers would be nice. Then someone could hack an INS system to supplement GPS.

The processor speed difference between the Touch and the N800 is not much (something like the touch being 22% faster. But the N800 is driving a bigger screen, and doing many more processor-intensive things than a Touch.
Likewise, memory isn't an issue: be sure to add to the cost the SD (HC) cards you'll be wanting.

"Limited Battery Life" depends a lot on what you're doing. It's an "always on" device, and as such can go a while. But if you spend a lot of time talking on the phone, or surfing, or controlling your desktop via VNC, 3-4 hours is what you get. But it's limited.

The n800 features a powerful arsenal of software and features, but with the caveat that they don't always work, and they don't always have the nicest interface. The poster child for this is the video camera: yes, it's there, and it's meant for video calling, but you can't make video calls with it (unless you grab a stability-challenged, withdrawn-as-of-last-month beta). Skype uses the internal mic only (not the supplied headset), so if you put the headset on, and drop the computer in the pocket, your correspondents will be annoyed. Flash 9 is supported, but if you hit a website with a lot of it, you might as well close your browser and start over...

So, it depends on what you want to use it for. If you're looking for something to play music, videos, and surf the internet on the can, by all means get the Touch. Don't count on it to do things it doesn't currently do though: that's not how Apple rolls.

Me, I'm happy with my n800. It's my laptop replacement. I just have to put up with a bunch of things that don't quite work right.

Oh, and wait a week to see if the price drop propagates to Europe.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

So it is another N800 versus iPod touch thread...

Anyway.


I own a N800 and I've hold an iPod touch in my hands. Let me give you my impression:

-the N800, as much as I love mine, is pretty much an unfinished device. *most* things work... sort of. I've live with maemo for two years (I bought a 770 when it first came out), and it infuriates me that it still does not come with a decent email client, or that youtube does not really work (I don't think one frame every couple seconds as working) (yes I am exagerating, I know).

-the n800 is about hacking. Its flagship applications are "hack your way to save money". VOIP or skype are about phoning for less money. Maemo mapper is about getting freem maps from google. Etc... That's not a criticism, I use my N800 to save money too (esp on travel), but that implies that there is only so much money available for software development.

-the iPod touch infuriates me. It is so nice, it looks like magic. Everything works as expected intuitively. Hold it in your hands 10 seconds and you will ask yourself "why can't those blokes at Nokia make a tablet that works?". Maemo looks and feel so eighties by comparison. Yet, Apple decided it will be an iPod, not a tablet. Sure you can surf, but probably only because Apple realised you needed a web client to autenticate yourself at most wifi cafes. You can watch itunes transfered movies, listen to music, buy music, point. Oh yes, do a bit of browsing, because they had to. Yet, because it's Apple, the browsing works almost better than on the Nokia...

-the iPod is not about saving money. Apple was never about saving money. Apple sells you an integrated solution that works for a purpose. The iPod touch is about bringing the iTunes stores to people who do not have a computer (e.g. in Asia...). But if you want web and email on the go, Apple expects you to buy an iPhone. Note that Apple is about getting value for money: the iPod touch works beautifully. iTunes sells songs for one of the best price on the web. The iPhone service contract gives you the full web for a very decent yearly price (much better than what was available beforehand, actually). But you get what you pay for, all of it, but nothing more. Don't try to use you iPhone as a GPS, Apple is not even interested. Don't try to install software. Don't try to connect a bluetooth keyboard, buy a macbook instead if you want to type text.

-you can connect a bluetooth keyboard to the N800 (and you could hack that on the 770...), but there is still no decent word processor available. Do you understand the difference better now?

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

I read the Abiword thread on this forum and that sounds promising.

All I really need is a simple WP that reads and writes RTF files. Is one of these available?

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Exactly... Promising has been the operating word for the Nokia for quite a time, and that is not the same as available. Just my point. :rolleyes:


You can actually hack abiword to run on the N800, and that is probably the best solution if you want rtf export.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Interestingly, the One Laptop Per Child machine appears to use a cut-down version of Abiword. I'm basing this on what I've seen when playing around with Sugar, the OLPC OS, which you can download as a virtual machine image.

The two devices aren't the same architecture, but they are around the same power of processor, so it stands to reason that the Sugar WP would work well on the N800.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

I've achieved 9 hours just playing games on an airplane. ;)

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Yeah, me too. I have 2 N800's and 2 770's, but no loyalty to the line. I'll get whatever works best, and the Touch is just not there yet. I am looking forward to the next generation Touch though. In the meantime there will be the N900.....

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

iTouch isnt cheaper here in the UK, in fact its more expensive!
The iTouch is selling for a whooping 280 quids (pounds) where as the n800 is selling for 247 !!!
Sources : Argos (iTouch) and PCWorld (n800)

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

AAAAAW Maaaan! Cmon! Have u ever heard bout FB Reader? It can show u text in any way u want. Vice-versa, landscape, portrait, peisage, any u like xD

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Touch 8Gb is £199 from Argos and Apple.co.uk. N800 cheapest price is £239 at Amazon. The price you're quoting is for a 16GB touch, and I don't know why you're comparing a 16GB touch to the N800 rather than an 8GB model. Both have vastly more storage than the base N800 although, as mentioned, the N800 has cheap and easy extension options.

But, as somebody else has pointed out, it's wise to wait a week or two to see if the US price falls for the N800 make their way across the Atlantic. Quite a few of the online shops appear to be out of stock right now (Amazon, PC World), making me think a new SKU is about to hit the shelves at a lower price.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

So.... let's compare apples with *cough* apples (at least in terms of memory if nothing else!)

iPhone 16GB: £269 (Argos)
N800 + 2x 8GB SDHC: £239 + 2x £45 => £329 (Amazon and

£269 vs. £329... someone would have to be a real fan of Internet Tablets in order to lay down the extra notes and buy the N800. If all they wanted is a very high quality media player that can also surf the web *very nicely* (though perhaps not as nicely as the N800) then they're going to save a wedge and go for the Touch. For most people it's as simple as that.

They would also be safe in the knowledge that their is a huge and growing hacking and support community surrounding the iPhone/Touch devices, a community which - let's face it - is probably already significantly larger than that of the Nokia NITs despite the NITs being around for far, far longer. :(

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

The tablets are not locked into that memory size, a distinctive advantage. Cost also requires context.

As for hackers, Apple is working hard to counter them with antagonistic firmware updates. Hmmm... is it the same with the tablets...? ;)

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

@MIlhouse

Don't you have to buy phone service with iPhone?

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Well yes, it's a phone. :)

But the cost of a phone service (whether it be for use with the Apple iPhone, a Nokia or a Sony Ericsson etc.) is something most of us pay for anyway, in which case I'm not sure it's particularly relevant. If you don't want the cellular phone part of the iPhone then buy a Touch as the Touch - like the N800 - has no cellular capability.

If we were to compare the iPhone+plan with N800+phone+plan+memory, perhaps the costs would be similar?

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Yeah, FBReader is nice; but I deal with reams of PDFs.

I remember reading somewhere someone saying "There is only one internet, and if your device cannot access it, you’re out of luck."

The same could be said of document formats. Yes, I grew up with text files; I remember when postscript was a new, cool thing, and network printers were these huge devices run by attendants, and if your 1000-page document got stuck in the queue behind a chinese-language newsletter, you were lost.

But right now, there is only one Portable Document Format, and if your deivce cannot render it, you're out of luck. So how about it? Allow evince to rotate 90 degrees? And let me flip pages without leaving full-screen mode (now someone will no doubt post and explain you can already do that.)

As far as the 60 quid goes, I don't need a music player, or a simple web browser. I need something that can serve as a portable reference, do light (and remote) data entry, and portable VoIP. It _sorta_ does those three things, plus stuff I hadn't thought of.

I wish the iPod/iPhone hackers the best of success with their cool devices. DRM/firmware locking is a continual cat-and-mouse game. The hackers will win, every time -- there's no way a team of paid professionals can forever foil a swarm of impassioned amateurs, but they can limit their influence by adopting the tactics they are in fact using.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Hacker wins tend to be temporary, and their efforts (along with the countermeasures) tend to harm legitimate customers.

I'd prefer doing business with the company that doesn't fight outside development so fiercely in the first place, and thus avoids the escalated "game".

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

I doubt. Phone - without gizmos, don't need them with N800 - I can buy for 20 pounds, and "plan" costs me about 3 pounds per month (my usual pre-paid card usage). Also this phone has good form, fitting nicely in hand.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Quite so, but by the time 16GB SDHC cards are cheap and plentiful, my N800 will be collecting dust in a drawer and Apple will be shipping 32GB Touches! :)

As for context, I thought I gave it :) A media player first, web browsing second (as it's that order which will appeal to the masses, and not great web browser first, mediocre media player second). Pound for pound, the Touch appears to come out on top for the general public. Now, if you want to easily install ssh, dual boot operating systems, run xterm and other native apps etc. then the Touch begins to look somewhat shabby.

Apple devices are not for people who want to tinker. If I bought one I'm not sure I could be bothered to fight against Apple when there are better, easier and more enjoyable (ie. less antagonistic) alternatives. I'd just enjoy the Touch for what it is, and hack on the N800/OpenMoko/Intel MID. Those that do want to hack are probably fighting a losing battle (or at least a hard and everlasting battle), and would be better off spending their time and talents on more welcoming projects but that's just my opinion! :)

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Yeah, the cost of the phone and plan is hugely variable depending on what you want/need... £3/month is a very good plan indeed, although I doubt it includes data which is where some networks will rob you blind.

Sadly for me, I can't help but lust after a N95 8GB in black... :) And I've also been caning my O2 dial up for the last week - 512KB free per month, then something silly per additional MB... I'm not looking forward to next months bill. :( O2 and I will be parting ways by the end of this year for sure!

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

There was more context was my implication, and you did touch on part of it. The most important, as I keep preaching, is L-i-n-u-x.

And you may not want to hack the iPhone or iPod touch, but my comment was in response to those who do.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

I don't believe the iPod touch has bluetooth, so you won't be able to attach a bluetooth keyboard to it. If it did, I might consider the cute little device. But alas, you need an iPhone to get bluetooth.

Craig...

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

I know, but Linux devices and in fact any device that needs to be hacked to get the best out of it (and this includes the current NITs) are not mass market. They're niche, and appeal to only a tiny minority which is why I always discuss the iPhone/Touch in terms of the "general" public who just want a device that works and works well.

We are the minority - long live the minority!! :)

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

The worst thing is, no A2DP!

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Again, Mil: a status quo does not need to persist forever. Yes, the N800 has begun as a niche product.

But so did the PC. The CEO at IBM prior to its launch saw a market for a few, he said.

Good thing not everyone accepts a limited status quo. ;)

Patience.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Not true.
Plug in a 4 conductor jack (like the supplied headset with mic), and the case mounted internal mic will be disconnected (along with the device's speakers.)

This makes sense.
.
Now if you plug in a 3 conductor jack (stereo headphones only), then the internal mic continues to function.
This is actually the method I prefer as I want to carry a pair of decent earbuds for music etc., but I can still make my international Skype calls without having to also pack a headset.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

I am talking about the supplied 4 connector headset. It works with the SIP client, but skype somehow gets the internal mic. I would have thought it was a hardware switch, but evidently not. End result? I'm using the SIP client more and Skype less.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Strange.
I just tested it with Skype and got the expected results of post #37.
.
How could it be dependent upon which VoIP program is used?

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Skype uses the headset mike when I do it. I walk around talking to my wife with it on my hip, and she's never complained about the sound.

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

Perhaps worth mentioning is the fact that OS X, used in the touch, uses PDF as its rendering format. In other words, everything you see on-screen started out as PDF markup. So you'd think Safari handled PDFs better, right?

My 1.84GHz MacBook struggles with some PDFs in both Preview and Acrobat Reader. Remember that the clock speed is pushing 4GHz in total, and the computer also has 2GB of RAM!

I have a few government-created cycle maps and they take maybe 5 seconds to render when I open them, or click-and-grab to scroll. I very, very rarely have smooth scrolling in any PDF document, no matter how simple (even just text). I noticed that even huge JPEGs scroll faster. I think this points to a limitation with the PDF format. We all hate the idea of Microsoft muscling in on the turf with their own PDF format but, who knows, maybe they'll do a better job.

The other thing worth mentioning about cost is that, pretty soon, there are going to be a LOT of refurbished touches available via Apple's refurb store, because of the "negative black" screen issues. These will be around 25% cheaper than brand new models, although they may have cosmetic problems like scratches. But they will have been checked over by one of Apple's engineers, making them possibly a better bet than a brand new one!

Re: N800 vs iPod touch
 

There is a difference between DisplayPostScript and PDF, you know...