osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Hi,

One thing that I didn't like about the tablet is that I couldn't properly use the terminal while thumb typing. That's because the thumb keyboard hides the terminal entirely.
How can one use Midnight Commander for instance like that !?

Therefore I have modified the osso-xterm to show a "transparent" keyboard (it's actually only the symbols on a standard QWERTY keyboard) thus allowing to a more natural terminal use.

This is only the first version of the change, but it's functional and I already use it on my tablet.
Of course many improvements can be done, I'm waiting for your opinions.

I am attaching the executable as it is (no packaging) and I would be interested if anybody else finds it useful.
(Actually the .deb file I have attached is a .zip, so pls rename it and unzip it to get the osso-xterm executable. I did this because otherwise it wouldn't let me attach it).

Daniel

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Daniel
There is no attachment.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

The ; and : are reversed. Other than that, it's pretty neat. Keys are a bit hard to press though. Maybe make it like the full screen keyboard?

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Could you please show a screenshot?

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Here's a screen shot.


Some keys seem to be missing (like space and return, and the bottom row of the keys z thru >)

But I like the idea!

Craig...

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

You are right, I will fix that.

What do you mean 'like the full screen keyboard' ? It is a full screen keyboard.
Actually, I forgot to mention, the terminal needs to be made full screen itself in order to see the full keyboard (I could make it for the non-full screen terminal too, but then the keys are too close to each other and it's hard to press them w/ the thumbs).
Regardless, anything can be done now that I got the hang of the GTK, it's important what you guys (users) feel it should be. Right now, it's how I like it :)

Daniel

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Sorry guys, make the terminal full screen and you'll see the full keyboard.

Also:

'Escape' is the Back/Return hard button (below the joystick).
'<' on the left, 2nd row is: Tab
'S' on the left, 3rd row is: Shift
'C' on the left, last row is: Control
'<' on the right, 1st and 2nd row: is Backspace
'C' on the right, last two positions on the 3rd row: Carriage Return/Enter
nothing on the right, last two positions: Space

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

very nifty, but could use some polishing.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

What I meant was make it look like the full screen keyboard, but transparent. That way you could see the edges of the "keys". Not sure if it's possible though.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Ultimately everything can be done. But my idea was to make the keyboard the least intrusive as possible considering that it stays over your content. I would rather see the terminal's text then the key's edges in those pixels that make up the edge line.
Again, my idea is that if you type exactly on the symbol then you will for sure press the key in the best location possible: in the center of it. If you see the key's edge or not, in this case, is irrelevant.

In the end, everything can be customizable. Some people might want edges, some not. We can for sure offer them.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Like I said it's the VERY FIRST draft. That's why I posted it: if you guys find it useful then let's hear your feedback and ideas of improvement.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Nice idea. But maybe you can leave the orig size of the kb and just make that one transparent so we can use it everywhere in apps no only in xterm.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Great work! I have a few improvement ideas:

1. Icon in the taskbar. I managed to minimize the window and there was no way to bring it back up.

2. Menu option to hide the transparent keyboard. Currently it is not possible to select and copy text from xterm.

3. Outlined / shadowed font for the keys. It's a bit difficult to see the keys now when there is lots of text in the terminal.

4. Possibility to remap the keys. Maybe there could be another keyboard layout, which could be turned on using one key. For example, one of the backspace keys could be used for this. The current layout is great, but I was missing the Finnish letters "ä" and "ö" while chatting on IRC. ;)

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

1) this is strange; I have the app icon in the task bar, just like the original osso-xterm
2) I thought of that, we'll be done
3) yes, there are a lot of effects that can be applied to the fonts, I have to play w/ that
4) I was afraid of this; a generic way needs to be found to implement this

thanks for the input !
D.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

I now found out why there was no icon in my 770's task bar. I had renamed the executable to "osso-xterm2" before running it. This was to prevent any conflict between this file and the previously installed Osso Xterm (advanced).

I changed the file back to its original name and now I get the icon, too.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

I just over wrote the old one. Figured if I don't like it I can uninstall and reinstall the original.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Thanks, this helps ALOT!

I just wanted to let you know I just ran kismet completely with your transparent keyboard. It is a little busy, but completely useable. I was going to ask for arrow keys, and then I realized that the "joystick" works well for that.

Cool stuff! Perhaps you could rename the binary so that it doesn't conflict with the "other" one. Something like osso-xterm-tkbd. Will you be putting up the source? Also have you checked out pypackager (search the forum). It makes creating debs a breeze.

Thanks!

Craig..

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

It would be certainly nicer to have the transparent keyboard available for all the tablet, but unfortunately that needs to be done at an entirely different level: that of the window manager. And I'm afraid I don't know that much about Hildon to achieve that.
The API itself is not very helpful as it standardizes the virtual keyboard plugin a liitle bit too much, such as space is always reserved for the keyboard so you can't have one that covers the whole screen (like the transparent one in xterm) because there is nothing left for the real window.

That's why I chose to implement it first in the xterm: it's easier.
On the other hand the xterm was the app that was most frustrating to use w/ the existent virtual keyboards.
I'm a guy who uses the terminal a lot, I don't care much for GUI, so if I can make it work in xterm that covers 90% of my tablet usage and I'm happy :D

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Thanks for the feedback. As I said, I'm using it too already a lot. Of course we can tweak on it as much as we want but it's already very usable and that's good.
My opinion is that what's on the keyboard plus the hardware arrow keys and the escape cover most of the characters that an English keyboard would have. Maybe I could add the Alt key too, but it's not very necessary.

As you saw (and I tried it too) if I change the executable name then it doesn't appear in the task bar anymore and that would suck. I have to first figure it out.
What I did is add a command in the cpu/mem applet in the icon bar. And I run it from there.

Yes, of course I'll post my sources. Give me a chance to clean up my code. I don't want to make a bad impression ;)

Thanks for the pypackager tip, I will check it out. I'm kind of lazy so that should help a lot :o

Daniel

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

I have released a new executable. This time I put it on a web page: www.dnastase.info/nokia770. There is a screenshot, the zip file and a few notes.

The new things:
- fixed the colon - semicolon mishap
- made the kebyoard show properly when the terminal is not full screen
- added the key to hide the transparent keyboard, added menu item to toggle visibility

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

The longer I look at this solution the more it seems to me to be an ingenious idea.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Looks like this is independent reimplementation of same idea
http://jtra.cz/stuff/maemo/xterm.html

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Damn, how did you find this ?!
I have searched high and low for such a thing before deciding to take the plunge and start implementing mine.

I've checked his sources:
- his changes have bigger amplitude, there is even some python code, I don't know if he has a python interpreter embeded or they are just for testing
- he implemented in a different spot: in the vte library, whereas I have in the terminal_widget.c file of osso-xterm
- there is one big difference in the idea though: I wanted mine to be thumb keyboard, it looks like his is still for use w/ the pen because it's way too small

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

I did not search :-) I've seen it mentioned few months ago on #maemo channel, see http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html, there is search too.


or it may be some helper to generate the keymap or something (haven't seen the sources)

Well both input methods have its users. Some people simply doesn't like the idea of touching the screen with fingers and prefer pen to keep the screen clean.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

As a small suggestion (from the screenshot), maybe you could change the shift and control keys to be more remeniscent of a real keyboard (an up arrow for shift, maybe smaller text saying ctrl for control [though the size of the 'key' need not be smaller]).

I agree with others that some sort of outline of keys would be useful. It could even pick up the background colour of the screen and be offset ever so slightly from that so that it's not too intrusive.

Finally, would it be unrealistic to suggest offsetting the middle row of keys horizontally a little. I know these thumb keyboards are meant to use as much screen as possible, but my biggest gripe with the N800's is that the keys aren't quite were I expect them to be. When I want to press 'A', my hand expects it to be below and slightly to the right of 'Q', like a real keyboard.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

No, no - this is not the "one (almost invisible) screen on top of the other"-idea...

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

I agree. I get frustrated with the stylus keyboard all the time and started using the out of the box thumb keyboard with it's obvious limitations. I haven't played with this version yet, but just from the screenshots, I think it's the coolest F-ing thing I've seen for the IT's so far.

What if the trans keyboard could be toggled on an off with a hard key combo press? Or a screen thumb-sense to activate with a gesture to deactivate? Just tossing out ideas...

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

See that I made another release which has the toggle of the tkbd. There is a button (right end, 2nd row: "X") that hides it.
It can be shown back/toggled from menu. I have chosen to put the menu item first in the "File" so that the tkbd can be toggled very quickly w/ two hardware button presses: menu + center joystick.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Hi,

your flying keyboard is really high-tech solution and application, meant highly intelligent one.
As a novice to python, please tell me is application of this kind as yours can be written in python . Is python , as a script language, in anyway fit to develop such solution or to modify one of this kind ?

Thanks.
Darius

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

I like that solution. I'm playing with the new xterm now. I think I get why there are just characters without borders so far, but what I'm finding is that my thumbs are too big and I'm either pressing the wrong character or I'm pressing harder than I think is necessary. Maybe I need to practice more. It just isn't as usable as the built-in thumb keyboard for me...yet.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

I can't even figure out how to execute this thing. A pity, because it looks like a great thing to have for when mudding from the N800. Can anyone provide some really simple instructions? "Installing the thing for Dummies" style :)

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Copy it to /usr/bin/ . If you want, do a cp /usr/bin/osso-xterm /home/user/MyDocs/ first to back up the old one.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

I like the new xterm as well. I know others have asked for key outlines, but frankly I find things hard enough to read without having more. So less is better for me.

Have you thought about different colors for the overlay keys? For some reason, I am thinking yellow might be good (I'd have to see it).

Another thing. Is it possible to make overlapping keys? Don't know if you have seen the iPod touch, but it's onscreen keyboard looks way too small, but it works really well. It appears that the keys overlap, and there is some method to determine if your finger is covering more one key than the next. Not sure if you have that level of control. But I think it would make it easier to use, if you do.

Thanks again for the really cool and useful xterm!

Craig...

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

It's my opinion too that less is better in this case, that's why the transparent keyboard is so bare. The problem is that the keyboard is not transparent :) though.
It just prints over.
I'm working on a version now that will be truly transparent. In this case we may outline the buttons without losing from the terminal content.

Colors, in general, are "de gustibus" (depend on one's taste). The optimal color is also highly dependent on the background color. So this one should be configurable.

I'm not very sure, but I think I know what you're talking about.
From programming point of view (GTK) you're just getting a mouse button press. It's only in a single pixel.
But I think Nokia's lower level touch screen routines are implementing what you're saying. I mean, for sure when you're thumb typing you're pressing many more pixels than just one.
And in my experience the OS2006 on N770 does a better job at approximating what you wanted to press then the OS2007 (on N770). That was one of the main reasons I switched back to OS2006.

Like I said before, I'm having very little misses when I type. My rule is to aim for the symbol. That's printed in the middle of the area where the button is, so it has the highest probability of success.
One way to increase the success rate would be to have bigger buttons, therefore less buttons. I'm also working in this direction, but there is so much I can do if we want to have most of the symbols on the keyboard.

Daniel

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Hi Daniel,

good job, great success.
My congratulations.
Pls tell me if python is a right solution to write a plugin or something else to add some flying buttons to maemo navigation solutions like maemo mapper or pymapper.
Does python has any connectivity to touch screen libraries, functions, methods ?

Thanks.
Darius

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Python in general is a very nice language, with lots of libraries, in general everything you need.
However, unless the application you want to enhance (maemo mapper) already supports python (by having it embeded which means that supports python plugins) you can't really do much from the outside.
pymapper is entirely a different matter: it's written in Python, so if you have the app you have the source code so you can modify it.

Daniel

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Wow, I just had a chance to try this in OS2006 (my other mmc card).

Why does it work sooo much better? What I found is that double key presses are more likely, but I can learn to press lighter. on 2007HE, the screen doesn't sense as well and I press quite a bit harder than I'd like to.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

It sounds a little goofy at first, but it's actually easy to use and very handy.

Thanks for this clever piece of work.

Only issue I have (on an N800) is that I don't have the x on the second row right side. According to the notes I saw, there should be an x to hide the transparent keyboard. Instead of the x I have another < which seems be another backspace.

NOTE: Reading through this thread again it seems that I got an old version, but I got the file from here:

http://www.dnastase.info/nokia770/

Please add a version number on the web site so the current release version is obvious.

Thanks again.

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

I think you'd get a similar result if you modified the standard full screen keyboard by:

1) make it show the background app at the top, the way the stylus keyboard does.

2) move the "downarrow" (dismiss) button to where the menu button is

3) make the bottom row a little less tall (it's slightly taller than the other rows)

If that was offered as an alternative layout to the standard full screen keyboard, then you could use it with any app. Especially if it was well integrated with pidgin and the various xterm variants.

How hard would it be to add a 4th input style (std. full screen, stylus, handwriting)?

Re: osso-xterm w/ overlayed transparent keyboard
 

Daniel,

Well thanks very much for this. I have been using it quite a bit for kismet and wavemon (802.11 text-base apps).

Let us know when you get a new version released. I would be happy to give it a try!

Craig...