How they should have designed it
 

This is how I think they would have made better use of the space on this device:

http://archosfans.com/images/nokia/n...x-changed1.jpg

I talk about some of the other problems that I see with this product over on the Archos Fans forum: http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?t=8212

The worst thing being that Nokia still hasn't announced any internet tablet with built-in HSDPA although I look forward to the Nokia internet tablet with built-in WiMax.

Anyone tested video support, has it been improved now with the 400mhz overclocking or does it still not support DVD resolution DivX and full screen Youtube flash video streaming?

Re: How they should have designed it
 

has anyone tried fitting an n810 into the hardcase from a 770 yet? :eek:

Obviously the keyboard negates a 770 type cover on this model, and the wonderfully woeful n800 camera was probably the reason it was dropped in the first place, but now the camera is in the place it should have been all along can't we actually, really start a petiton for the n900 to see it's return, even as an optional extra maybe?

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I am tempted to join the Archos forums now.

I just visited your link. It looks like user "billbipper" liked your posts as well! :rolleyes:

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I largely concur with your mockup.

Yes, they should have used the keyboard exclusively for the type keys, thus making every key a little wider. That is, I would keep the return key and backspace keys on the slider. [edit 'flag' buttons] Looked at hi res images - it's the menu button ... so you have three menu buttons?

I personally think the camera should have been on top in the middle.

And, since the camera no longer swivels ... how about a two megapixel camera on the back to take pictures? I had started to look at the N800 as a little mobile blog machine, but the N800 images are many times of unacceptable quality and when saved with the camera app take 250KB of space??

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I don't see the dpad location as a "problem". I agree with the rationale given: that it makes sense to place it close to the keyboard.

Rather than crowding more buttons on the face, IMO the solution is a change in the interface to minimize button use and encourage/support increased touchscreen interaction.

Oh, and I like how you created an account just to complain about the device and draw members to your forum. Nice. :p

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I agree that the thumbpad belongs on the front, not on the keypad. I use the thumbpad and function keys when I browse with my 770 and rarely need to use the stylus. I think it's ridiculous to deploy the keypad and double the size of the device in order to navigate.

A handheld GPS device is useless outdoors unless it has a transflective display that is viewable in direct sunlight.

Make the camera truly useful and put it on the back of the unit so that it can be used to take photos.

Ron G

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Who says you need the keyboard to navigate? I quit using the dpad on websites looong ago.

Also, someone commented in another thread that the screen IS transflective.

Finally, I don't see dual use for the webcam as a big deal myself.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Well it's definately nice that they made it smaller, and adding a keyboard is cool. It just is too bad that the keyboard isn't using the whole width. In my mockup it's not three menu buttons, but I were thinking there could be some different kinds of shortcut buttons there. Maybe the space, tab, shift, ctrl, fn, del, backspace, alt buttons could also have been somewhere on the top part of the device next to the screen or under it, I figure that the way you are holding it, it would be a problem to move your thumb over to the side of the screen to do such things as hitting Enter or the space bar. Thus the whole area of the keyboard should just have been for the letters of the keyboard and the most important of the ,.:;-_ type of characters. In my mockup the keys are about twice as large as the way Nokia made them on the N810.

It might be OK for people who like to use devices such as Blackberries and such, I just think that if they cannot have a full sized keyboard in there, then at least it would be important to make the keys as large as possible.

As for the multidirectional button on the left side of the screen like with the N770 and N800, I think is useful for fast scrolling without having to use the touch-screen when the keyboard part of the device is closed.

I'm not complaining, I'm just posting my suggestions for the N900, that Nokia hopefully will show at the CES in a couple of months. I would actually prefer a device without a built-in keyboard. To me adding 30gr, removing the two SD card slots and removing the speakers was not worth adding a sliding keyboard, especially such a small keyboard. Or maybe it would be nicest to have somekind of compact foldable keyboard design be the solid screen protector like the sliding screen protector of the N770. I prefer the external full sized foldable keyboard for any serious typing.

And especially for N900, I'd expect Nokia to provide better video support, tv-out, DVR, transflective screen, built-in HSDPA and WiMax.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

The Dpad covers the location of the keys on the left, so they would have to moved somewhere else. Also the size of the Dpad shown would not be possible as the actual screen extends beyond the visible area, and the location of the dpad would still be over the screen under the facia.

All the extra buttons on the front make it look very messy.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Yup, I'm not very good at using the GIMP image editor. The idea is just to have buttons on each side of the screen, so that when the keyboard is closed, it could be used nicely for doing most of the stuff without having to use the touch-screen and that's especially useful for gaming where you prefer not to have to touch the screen. And that's one other thing for N900, Nokia should add somekind of 3D accelerator in there, something like a new generation low power 3D graphics processor. Emulating N64 games (legally through a Nintendo partnership of course) would be nice.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

The speakers are still there, and I, personally, think Wimax/HSDPA is both wasteful and unnecessarily costly. I can see the point in a Sprint-branded Wimax unit that's separate from the regular retail Nokia units, but I already have an HSDPA phone, and don't desire plopping down another $60/mo to get service for my IT.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Here in Denmark it's $30 for a data-only HSDPA plan with a transfer limit of 10GB per month, so the idea of having HSDPA built-in would be to replace the need to have a mobile phone and never have to pay voice and sms fees again.

It would require also that the device stay connected to be able to ring on incomming IP packets on certain protocols such as VOIP, IM, push email notification and such while the rest of the device should be in sleep mode.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Yeah, no device is going to be able to stay idling on a Voip connection for more than 6 hours over HSDPA. So I don't see how that can replace a real mobile phone.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I have an HSDPA thingy plugged into a wireless home router and thus have no need for HSDPA in the NIT - I'm online through HSDPA+wifi already. And in addition the rest of the computers in the house are too.
Besides, HSDPA _sucks_ power.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I like your idea but how 'bout a step further. A D-pad is no match for a real mouse. How 'bout an optical mouse like the Everrun has. That would be sweet.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I would :
* put the 5-way and minimal hard buttons on the top, just like their own freaking N-series phones!

* Use dual microSD slots or 1 microSD+1 SD slot, You know, the same type their own freaking phones use! MiniSD is so wrong on so many levels. What, Nokia you expect your user base to be Treo 750 and 680 owners?! And the fact that I KNOW they are going to switch to microSD on N900 make me sick.

* Make the speakers louder, so you can actually use it on occations that need it, for example, on a train table, on a pinic table, on a beach etc.

* Make it $70 more than the n800. I don't know why they drop the price on the n800 so soon and I don't care, but the n810 shouldn't cost more than a 800 plus a GPS receiver.

* Keep the same cellphone battery but upgrade the capacity (is that what they are doing now?)

Otherwise I am indifferent to the n810's other hardware changes, I know they are gimmicks that use to draw in new buyers but, meh.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Well from some of the hand's on pics it seems the battery is going to be of the same capacity as the Nokia N800 (1500 mAh). Agleast that is what I'm seeing from Engadget's hands on http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia...nds-on/443977/.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

[Major Rant]

People will NEVER be happy...

The 770 doesn't have a keyboard...boo hoo hoo...
The N800 doesn't have a keyboard...boo hoo hoo...
The N810 has a keyboard that I don't like...boo....hoo......hoo

Come on people...the device isn't even out yet.

The 770 was bashed up and down for all the things it couldn't do, when people didn't give the device much credit for how well it did what it was advertised to do.

N800 got the same treatment.

Everyone hears "Linux based" and it's automatically supped to be able to wake you up, plan out your day, let you build the most advanced applications in the world, hold you when you're down, give you a BJ, and the list goes on...

Meanwhile, it's a device that fits in your hand...I'm sorry for ranting, but it's sad how the unit isn't officially released, and there are already posts about "how it should be done"...if you feel that strongly about it, design one yourself...patent it, and develop it.[/Major Rant]

Re: How they should have designed it
 

That's nonsenes, I don't need to be a chef to comment on how good the meal is. If you don't want to hear any criticism you don't have to come to this forum lol.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I'm just constantly amused by everyone *****ing about how the keyboard won't be any good for "serious typing". I don't imagine that anyone at Nokia intended it for that purpose, and more than BlackBerry intended their devices to be used for much more than quick emails. The keyboard on the n810 would be ideal for IMing, quick emails, or quick entries on web sites, and unlike the on-screen keyboard you can see what you are doing. If you want to write an essay or really long email, you can still use a bluetooth (and possibly usb) keyboard.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I partially agree with the original mockup, though I'm not sure if the D-Pad is an issue, since it SUCKED for navigation in Opera. Maybe microb is better, but I'm on a 770, so I can't say.

The keyboard does need bigger keys, so that the "hump" on each key is an easily discovered target, though what would really save the day would be a Sidekick-style thumbboard. Those things are probably the best thumbboards ever, and I've even heard similar usability complaints in, say, the Blackberry 8830 versus the Curve. Spacing counts.

The big issue is, how can they make more room for the keys? My first thought goes to the D-Pad. Shrink it! Put in a mini joystick, or a trackball, or anything but a D-pad!

After that, I'd love a capacitive touchscreen, for better usability with fingers, and a magnetic/conductive-tipped stylus to match that for those of us who prefer stylus ops, or want to sketch.

Beyond that, well, an SD slot under the battery, and a rear camera would be nice additions. Let me slap in 16GB of pseudo-permanent storage, and use the miniSD for data that I'd shuttle between the N810 and my non-BT devices, like a camera.

Overall, if that back piece is as big a battery as the preview users claim, this is pretty damned close to perfect. I'd happily take another 10% boost on CPU, but that's just to avoid the tiny bit of lag that I'm still seeing on the video that Thoughtfix posted.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

You could shrink it if you make it an optical mouse port. D-pads are for joysticks and videogames. Computers deserve mice.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I love that it comes with a keyboard, what I don't like is it "forces" you to open the slider just to access the D-pad to navigate.

If they could have put a scroll wheel on the side or use the same technology used in the new crackberry's(touch sensitive) on an external D-pad or nub etc. then it would be much more user friendly.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I like the hardware layout of the 770 very much,
with the protecive metal slider.

However didn't give up hope so I have my third Nokia 770 here,
and none of them is/was stable when using
the _most important_ application, the web browser!

And those trials to port a Mozilla-based browser to the 770 were all unsuccessful so far,
and cost me (the user) even more time to revive the unit.

This thingy simply doesn't do very well what it was advertized for IMO.

As an interesting note, other great applications,
like Maemo Mapper just work as expected.


Not neccesarily.
But as written above, the main application (web browser) should simply be stable (which it isn't),
at least from the second firmware update on.

MicroB on the 770 showed that the problem is not only the rendering engine,
but the surrounding framework.
MicroB on the 770 is very likely to crash instantly,
and leave your unit in a corrupt state, so you'll have to reflash.

The 810 looks very nice, much better than the 800,
and even if the keyboard is not meant for intensive use,
it's better than no keyboard at all:-)

So I think I'll give the 810 a try, despite the experiences with MicroB on the 770.
Hope it won't disappoint me again...


Ray

Re: How they should have designed it
 

There could be a DPAD on the front and something mouselike on the keyboard. I want a DPAD on front so I can manipulate my MP3 player while driving. I admit this is about all I use it for but its important to me. Also my hands are small and this kind of keyboard doesn't add a lot for me.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

You're kidding, right? I run MicroB on both a 2006 770 and a 2007HE 770 and they both run quite nicely. Not as stable as the N800, but quite nicely all the same and browser crashes don't leave my units in a "corrupt state" and don't require a reflash.

Personally, it sounds to me like you're doing something wrong that's unrelated to the browser.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

The large buttons in media player pressed with your finger on the touch screen isn't good enough? Sounds like it would be even safer than needing to use the d-pad.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

The tablet has a touchscreen. What's wrong with using it to navigate? No need for a d-pad.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Personally, I RARELY, if EVER use the d pad. The only thing I have ever used the d pad for is to repeat a command in xterm (up up up touchscreen:enter). The tablet is a touch screen device and I use my fingers or stylus to do all the navigating.

What do people use the D pad for?

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I use it to scroll through pics on say, Mirage or Obscura. Sometimes I try to use it to navigate when I can't/don't want to pull out the stylus (one hand use) but it rarely does what I want/expect it might do, so l leave it alone.

I. for one, welcome design/usability comments/criticisms when they are meant as constructive, because user feedback is one of the most critical parts of any design phase, and often overlooked.

If we think about it, this is why Nokia is moving iteratively, bringing out new objects as they learn from early adpoters (bravo 770 users...you deserve a discount:) information about how/when and why people will use them. The cost of design study in the field, using this core group of geeks and this forum to test and comment on their devices, is nothing compared, say, to the cost of a television advertising campaign.

So, yes, the object isn't released yet, but you know there is a design team getting ready for the N900 and I think they're already reading this forum for just these sorts of ideas. So, keep 'em coming (just keep 'em clean)!

All that said, I think the original poster's ideas for moving all that stuff to the front is completely counter-intuitive for a touchscreen device. My vote: please, fewer buttons, not more.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Greyghost, I agree with you 100% (Hi Nokia Devs! :) )

I second that there should be LESS buttons rather than more. I think having a pull out keyboard is nice, but otherwise touch screen is the way to go. Maybe the home key when an app is not responding... or the menu key when in full screen mode... otherwise I rarely use most of the keys. The plus/minus keys? 90% of the time I use them, come to think of it, is when I show off my tablet! Otherwise I don't touch them. Full screen button is useful, but sometimes hard to get to: being in between plus and minus means I hit the wrong key 20% of the time, even though it's elevated. Having it moved AWAY from the plus/minus keys on the 810 is welcomed :)

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Look at the touchscreen while I am driving? No thank you.

Of course when someone like me is using the N800 purely as a media device something like a BT remote could be just as good. But that remote would be another thing to lose.

I'm in favor of a few HW buttons. I think there is delay with the soft keys because I have to find and recognize them on the screen. I think that is a little faster with tactile feedback.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

How about Tactile feedback ON the touch screen? I think that's the future, having the touch screen...morph, for lack of better words, dynamically to create buttons. Like a REAL LCD, Liquid Crystal Display :D

I know that Nokia's S60 has some sort of Force Feedback built into the display... Read about it, but didn't follow up enough (I guess I don't really understand how it works/what it does)

By the way Serahn, here's a suggestion: When driving.... focus on the road not on fumbling with your tablet :)

Hey! You gave me an idea! How about voice recognition? So instead of looking for the skip button, just say "Skip". Or "Skipto [pause] All Along the Watchtower"

Man I would love to work for Nokia, I have a thousand different ideas. I think I'll make a list and post them later :)

--Jon

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I have configured Opera so I can page up/down with it. I would want to have that working with every appliction (e.g. PDF reader). Reasons? 1) That's what I'm used to from e.g. Palm PDAs with 5-way navigator pads (they work very intelligently there). 2) I prefer to avoid touching the screen with my fingers as much as possible. It gets full of fingerprints, and I _hate_ that. I use a nail now and then, but mostly the stylus.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I think the N810 is a wonderful piece of hardware.

I think the largest "design change" to the N8xx hardware has nothing to do with the physical system, but rather the software. The software library is rich and varied, but not easily accessed by casual owners. The maemo repository is large, but is more of a development community with a sourceforge feel; not ideal for non-developers/nerd.

I would like to see a site devoted to the layman -- not the tech-head that comprehends the esotericisms of project pages and changelogs -- with pages that really 'sell' the free applications with comprehensive pictures/videos and lists of features. A site that rates and reviews these applications and provides one-click-installations.

Right now, to the layman without a technical mate or technical savvy, is largely limited to the software that ships with the system. A far cry from the true potential of the N8xx internet tablet family.


Only the glassy surface of the sea can show you who you truly are.

}:^)~
YARR!!

Ton Capitain

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Honestly, the more I think about the d-pad, the less concerned I am about its placement on the slide-out.

I hardly use the thing at all while thumbing.
I'll get more usability from not having to press two buttons to lock the screen.

Re: How they should have designed it
 

Here's how I would have done it (if the whole face is going to slide):

http://ucscb.ucsc.edu/~jrudd/nokia-n810-modified.jpg

(I'm going to call this one the "off-center" design, in case anyone wants to refer to both of my designs)


1) By making the screen off-center (since there's nothing on the right edge of the existing N810's screen), you can make room for the dpad to be up on the face again.

2) move the home and escape buttons to the right thumb area

3) move the menu button to just under the dpad (could have gone to the right thumb, too, but I thought this was enough).

4) have copies of the escape/menu/home button next to the keyboard, so you don't to reach up to hit escape or something.

5) move the screen down a little, to make room for the light sensor and chat cam to go center top.

I think there's still room to move the screen back a little to the left, too (to give your right thumb a little more to grasp).

This moves things around a bit, but it doesn't make the device any bigger. Of course, internal component placement might make some of it a little difficult. I wouldn't know :-}

Later on, I'll try to do a version that has a slide-screen-only (ie. thumb side-bars stay still)

Re: How they should have designed it
 

http://ucscb.ucsc.edu/~jrudd/nokia-n810-modified-2.jpg

(this one I'm going to call "screen slides only")

Ok. Here it is. Screen moved back to the left a little, to give more gripping area for the right hand.


You could also lower the left and right button groups so that they're centered (height wise).

Re: How they should have designed it
 

I like them! :D

Re: How they should have designed it
 

The one and only thing I would change about the N810 is to put the camera dead center at the top of the device and allow it to rotate front and back just like the original cam on the N800.