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Releasing devices that aren't ready yet
Hello Nokia,
my N800 never seemed to work properly, websites hardly displayed correctly videos in website never displayed properly, email never downloaded external email properly... The standard software never lived up to it's original promise and I am displeased to buy a piece of equipment that is not suitable for retail. All I wanted was a web browser out of the box that allowed me to access the internet, who cares about having a good screen if you can't even watch videos on it properly. My n-gage was a piece of crap, the n800 is a piece of crap, and so is the iphone/itouch.. You are all out of touch, you think you know what people want, but it seems that all you know is what techie people want, which make up a good 20% of the market, but well apple does think about 50% of the market, which isn't that much better. Stop releasing devices every few months and release something that works properly out of the box... pay for proper quality assurance teams. Quite frankly, you are supposedly not thinking about your pockets, but all I can see is your hands in my pocket and a barebone device that came with limited abilities... But I guess the $500 or more Canadian I payed for my device, isn't such a bad price to learn the lesson to never trust Nokia ever again... considering I may have spent much more. Goodbye and good riddance, and no need to response Nokia fanboys, because if I bought the device for what developers pay what $100 pounds or whatever, I would think it was worth it to... but just remember, people who buys these devices aren't always programmers and developers and should not have to spend hours to days setting a device that costs that price... Anyhow I have done enough for now but I could be saying much more... |
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Hello Nokia,
My N800 worked properly from day one. Browsing and email have always been perfect. I'm no techie and I paid full price and I am very happy. I am buying a Nokia phone next. |
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Embedded video was non-existent to broken on the 770, but on the N800 it is not worse any more than you'd expect on any Linux computer of that screen size and computing power - FWIW it is actually better than on any other non-Intel Linux computer. Blame it on the DRM lobby and corporate interests... Quote:
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The way most pages should be displayed is strictly speaking undefined as the pages are technically broken - and given that 15 years of standards advocacy haven't improved the average HTML quality, we can safely assume that the broken web is here to stay. Only a market share which implies that most site operators will test against the N800 would help in twisting the WWW towards being broken in a N800-friendly way. The switch to Minimo as the coming N800/N810 browser engine will help quite a bit, but there still enough sites which are broken in Mozilla-incompatible ways. Sevo |
Re: Releasing devices that aren't ready yet
Hello Nokia,
I too want to rant and rave about the N800 & N810. When I recieved my first N800, in april, I just couldn't believe it I put the battery in turned it on and in less than 5 minutes I was browsing the internet over wifi. Good Grief 5 minutes to get this thing working that is way too long. Not too mention it took me almost 5 minutes to connect my N800 to my Nokia N75 to browse the internet and you know what else I have to charge my battery up about once a week in order to keep this thing working. And another thing I bought the Navicore GPS and I installed the software and now my N800 is talking to me tellling me where I need to turn and giving me directions in order to get get where I need to go. I was Sooo upset that I just had to buy another Nokia N800 because the first one worked so well that my wife wanted on also. If Nokia keeps on making this stuff I'm going to go broke buying thier stuff. |
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Jeff |
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The N800 hardware is solid. R. == |
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Hello testerj,
Sell your N800, go back to World of Warcraft and myspace, and STFU. kthxbai! |
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And, as a techno-elitist, I don't particularly want what most of the market wants. Heck, most of the market cheerfully buys Windows XP boxes with 256 megs of RAM, sometimes even 128! Most of the market buys Vista with 1 Gig of RAM. Yes, you're right: some web pages render poorly; and you're also right, that as the last stop on the train, the hardware/OS makers have to fix everyone else's problems. I mean, I agree with you. That still doesn't piss my techie ***** off that websites of all colors continue to specify their dimensions in pixels instead of relative screen measurements. I mean, come on guys! It ain't that hard to set up a bleedin' CSS! Heck, I've done it, and the last time I checked, my bank listed my profession as Philosopher. Give me a break! Even if "web designer" denominates the lumpenproletariat of the information revolution, you could at least get this right! (Oh yeah, tell the King Prof. I said hi)[/rant] So yes, you're right: that is a problem: the web doesn't render quite like it does on a desktop. And if they have heavy flash-lifting on the page, problems will ensue. So, yeah, these problems annoy me, too. But, uh, you ever try looking at a web page on a mobile phone? (Tu quoque at work) At least this darn thing works, and works pretty well for my purposes. As for the rest, yes, the device promises much, but nothing quite works ideally. Nokia doesn't market this device that heavily. How did you find out about it? I carefully evaluated the review sites, and even the operational forums before buying mine. So I knew full well that, at least when I bought it, I'd need to jump through some extra hoops to view youtube, and that the video thingy was a joke. So you're right, the n800 isn't ready for prime time, but it's not being marketed that way either. So, thank you for trolling the boards. It was entertaining, and you no doubt elicited a bunch of equally silly fanboi reactions. Still, I'd be happy to relieve you of your n800 burden for a couple hundred bucks. |
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My 770 internet tablet and is barely adequate for viewing today's news, weather, and sports websites and watching video. The N800 doesn't appear to be much better (can't find one in stores to evaluate in the US and I presume the N810 will be just as elusive). I'm an end user looking for a pocket internet/PMP device that works out of the box, Linux muddling is not one of my interests. I'll be checking out the new HP iPaq 210 Pocket PC when it's available in stores.
624MHz processor 4" VGA transflective LCD Wi-Fi BT 2.0 USB CF and SD slot Windows Mobile 6 MSRP $450 Ron G |
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I wouldn't judge the N800 by the 770, as some appear to be doing. I paid $400 for my N800 and it was worth it. I also had a working Internet connection a very short time after taking my N800 out of the box last January.
As to releasing imperfect software: We have a choice. We can complain that Nokia doesn't let us beta test their products or we can complain that Nokia does let us beta test their products. I like beta testing. |
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You're welcome. |
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Didn't you thought about trying them to see if they do what you want? no? Well, when I bought my nokia I had already tried the demo 800 on the stand, and before I bought the iPod touch I tried one of those out too. And I bought them because they did what I wanted. But you couldn't be bothered to see if they worked for you so you decide to just buy them and stamp your little feet and throw them out of the pram when they don't? Life must be disappointing for you! Quote:
No, because you want nokia fanbois to be all offended. Quote:
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Re: Releasing devices that aren't ready yet
testerj,
As a member of the technocracy I'm very happy with my N800. I would also like to take the time to say how much I appreciate you posting this nice message telling Nokia that you're no longer a customer of theirs and that they shouldn't take your feelings into account when designing future Internet Tablets. For a while I was worried that Nokia was going to sacrifice the loyalty of their geek following to try and compete in the mainstream (read: idiot proof) gadget market. It's helpful comments like yours that I hope will keep Nokia focused on their core market: us geeks and "fanbois." I'm sorry that you didn't do an appropriate amount of research before buying a product you didn't understand. I'm fairly sure that "caveat emptor" still applies with regards to the purchasing of consumer electronics. Don't let the door hit you on the way out! -John PS: This is what happens when you catch me before my coffee on a Sunday morning. :P |
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I love threads like this :)
I always thought the Nokia n800 hardware was really great. My complaints are always that there is not sufficient software to put on the n800 (or at least add easily) to put the n800 to its full use. I know I am a total broken record on this point, but the n800 should have had a pim software. I know people disagree with me, but that is what I think. Plus, I think (not 100% sure) that Nokia owns a company that makes software that syncs vaious types of pim software. This is a major missing piece to me, as is the lack of ability to read and write ms word since ms word is the business standard. All this said, I will probably buy the n810 :) p.s. the eee pc has very good software |
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my 2 cents. you cant have bleeding edge technology and reliability at the same. time.
Only now is the 770 becoming a solid product. and its totaly wondefull |
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Why not wait for OS 2008 HE to surface (with Mozilla based browser etc. and soon to appear Modest email client) before laying out $450 and taking a step backwards, technologically speaking? :) |
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Ron G |
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@tabletrat, I've never seen an IT in a store. Makes it a bit hard to play with one first. I got mine straight from the Nokia site.
They do hype up the IT's abilities a bit on the site, but it's pretty good hardware. Now we're just waiting for the software to catch up. Hopefully the next os release will fix a few things. |
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MY N800 worked *brilliantly* out of the box and I've never had a serious problem (well, if you don't count misplacing the magnet:eek: I use it every day, and my laptop has not been out of the bottom drawer of my desk in a year. I'd buy an N95 if I could. :rolleyes: |
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I actually did do some research, didn't have the opportunity to demo one in store, couldn't order one from nokia over the phone only from the site so I purchased it from a 3rd party store that actually shipped one over from Europe.
Maybe you don't care that video's don't render properly, maybe you don't care that you have to download 5 video players to actually find one that will play your video, but like I said all you every day techie's and fanboys don't have a problem with that and you are ever so wrong if you can't work out that you where never the market Nokia intended to buy this device and the only reason why it was never mass marketed is because it had hardly anything to talk about that could be definitely conveyed as working properly because most software released and even the firmware update was pretty much alpha versions anyhow. I can say I like having wi-fi, sucks that any site thats worth looking at displays really crappy even if the graphics do look ok, it's choppy and can't even render videos without stuttering like it's disabled. And then to top off this wonderful piece of hardware with alpha software, Nokia releases the N810 to those who want to feel like they are actually purchasing something better. And for the dude that said oh you bought an n-gage and then you bought an internet tabled, my n-gage was great in theory but I had to send it in for service and with-in a week of getting it back it broke again... The n800 was released a couple of years later, maybe after reviewing review sites I went and purchased one thinking I had a truely web-enabled tablet, hell I would have paid another couple of hundred dollars for it.. but it's a POS out of the box. Have I found unique ways to use my n800 to make it somewhat worth what I paid for it... kinda... I use it to remotely connect to my PC through my wireless router when I am working from home because I like to use 2 flatscreens to work from home when I am working at the help desk... but really I am basically using my own computer on it... I will take it travelling with me on my next trip, but only because my laptop backlight went (from HP after 13 months) guess even though marketed as a gaming laptop it couldn't handle games truely... just another example of products like this. Basically if I am spending $400/500 on a device, I expect that I can get some good worth of it out of the box... You may all feel like you got something worth having I still can't equate it to much... And you know I may just consider a windows mobile product, I actually thought for a moment you Linux developers where actually getting properly supported by Nokia, but you are basically like jailbirds on bread and water... because if you where properly supported you'd actually be supported to make your own applications instead of porting everyone elses. I am not on here to make friends, I am just here to explain facts and what I expect, yes Nokia has lost me as a future customer already... And although this was geared towards everyday people all you nokia fanboys had to respond didn't you! As much as some may feel that I have no respect for software developers for the IT you are wrong, it's my feeling that you have not been respected by Nokia enough, which is why I have an Internet Tablet that was marketed to do much more than it ever could out of the box. Hopefully some other companies will come to the market and start releasing IT with some good stuff... I actually think the n800 puts the Iphone/Itouch to shame, try watching CNN on an itouch, it's even worse than the n800... I am glad there are alternatives and when I next go out to buy a handheld device, I learnt my lesson. Good on you Nokia for your game plan, I hope its working out for you and by your sales records for this device it's really showing just how amazing it's been. Good devices don't need much marketing because they speak for themself.. It's too bad because the IT could have been much better and I think that in time Nokia will eventually release a good device... just a little too late... |
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Frankly, I can't imagine how anyone could buy one of these devices without first realizing that they are not quite ready for consumer prime time.
This assumes that you did a little reading about the device first, perhaps here, before buying. If you did, then you walked in with eyes wide open. If you just happened to walk in a retail store, and sight unseen and without any prior research, bought a N810, then your rant would actually mean something. It would appear that you are computer literate (you work on a help desk); therefore you should have been able to make a buying decision with the foreknowledge of what you are getting into. On the other hand, I almost buy into what you state regarding how Nokia markets the devices -- these are an early adopter, some assembly required, not for computer neophytes, type of product. Nokia, by limiting the distribution of these devices, is as much as admitting that so perhaps they can get something of a pass for not putting a big warning label on the box. Having said all that, I like the device and the promise of it and will be building software for it. |
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I see someone has missed a lot of dialog on this subject...
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hey texrat don't u work for Nokia? your almost the ultimate fanboy of them all
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and like I said I did read reviews and alot of them where when the n800 was initially being released, much like many other products, when they are only just being released there is limited reviews available and only testing products which most reviewers are used to them being a bit quirky so they usually overlook some of the flaws they initially see
pop3 worked for me don't get me wrong, it's just the IT could only handle 20% of my entire emails downloaded and this had nothing to do with memory limitations unless of course on the back-end the only place memory could be stored is on the internal memory card which wouldn't surprise me. I can break it down into laymens terms if you like but since your all so technical I would have expected you to see it for yourself. like I said... alpha versions, at least there is promise for the future |
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The important point about these gadgets is not whether they are good or bad. The important point is that there is no competition. If you want to put the web in your pocket, you will only find devices with similar limitations. And not many of them.
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Yes - they are not ready - if you want teleportation built in.
In the early 1960's I was proud as heck to get one of the first transistor radios that would fit in a shirt pocket, as about the same length and width as the N810 but several times as thick. Wow - music I could walk around with, at a low cost. In the late 1990's I loved my HP95LX - I could work on rudimentary web pages in the grocery line, I fixed machines in Bosnia while sitting in a phone booth in Pennsylvania. I hooked it up to a GPS and could track my movement thru Germany at about 140KM/hr. All at low cost. Now it's 10 years later and I can surf the web and easily view web pages, have a basic GPS. Walk around my property watching my cable TV being served over wireless. Talk VOIP. But heck I was hoping that the N810 would allow teleportation!! Beam me up Scotty! For about a day's pay this thing kicks butt. Compared to a UMPC at 3 to 4 times the cost. Plus it runs Linux by choice! (I didn't start with Linux until v0.95 back in 1992.) Thanks testerj for posting, it's people like you that bring this community together. It also gives me more insight as to the type of people at help desks. |
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I am glad you are so easily pleased gemniii42, you can also buy an electric toothbrush for $4.95 these days at the corner store, I am sure you'd find that to be an 'amazing' upgrade in technology to.
Funnily enough I wouldn't be surprised if you work for Nokia to, it seems that 90% of the responses have been from developers or people that work at Nokia when the start of the thread stated it was not intended for that. And as much as you feel you have an insight into how help desks operate, I solve more issues personally than anyone in my group, I work with internal staff and I provide QA on different applications and get paid for my opinion, I could care less about your over all opinion on help desks because it sounds to me like you'd make your overall opinion on 1 experience from someone who happens to do that for a living outside of providing their own personal (free) feedback. If I came from a generation that you did I may feel the same way but my ideals on technology are based on best practices that should be followed before releasing items to the public, I am sorry if I seem disrespectful to you, but I am disappointed in the product I purchased, I am glad you can easily view web pages, whilst I feel that the internet tablet has a superior viewing framework, it's still lacking and could have been much better. And only 50% of the sites I want to view load up properly and many times the browser crashes... bugs, bugs & more bugs, and if you are earning what a nokias worth in a days pay, i feel sad for the organization you work for, because I'd say it was a waste |
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Don't know what websites you're viewing. My browser hasn't crashed even once..
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I don't know, I have been impressed by the N800's ability to render the odd full blown HTML site that I view remotely. However, right from the get go I knew I wouldn't be using the thing to view regular web sites...
I mean, do the freakin' math, the screen on the thing is just 1 tenth the size of a 17" desktop monitor. How could it compare? What I did know was that instead, I would use the device to view sites I normally view remotely on a 2" cell phone screen... >> http://home.comcast.net/~fynspy/YoDude_PDA.htm Now I'm using a device that has 2 1/2 times the size I was used to and as a bonus I can now view the PDF, pics, and some of the video I come across or need while viewing remotely. For this, I'm very happy. Expecting the tablets to be a replacement for a desktop environment is not very realistic. |
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Oh the device taunted to display sites properly, I wasn't replacing no "cell phone" type display screen like you...
I expected it to be an internet tablet that would allow me to actively travel around and use sites, review videos and many other things which where "ADVERTISED" as a feature but never actually worked properly as promised even with the skype update. I found only 50% of the sites I reviewed rendered properly, videos never have played properly. Only some videos will play with one of the 5 video players I downloaded, all of which "look nice" but functionality wise don't do much. If you all think it's such a great device go and buy some nokia shares so they can pay the developers to make some real software. Not once did I expect it to replace a desktop environment, please tell me where I asked for that? The POP 3 mail client couldn't even handle my mailbox, my customized themes became unavailable anymore after the Skype release which I don't even use Skype, I never expected a phone anyhow. The biggest joke in all of this is the dudes who think they are holding a masterpiece, good for you if you like a fancy piece of plastic, but I expect things to work as they are advertised. I can't even use the webcam on it to talk to friends of mine, in fact it's pretty useless unless I have a friend with an n800 because I can't video conference with a regular Gtalk user and the rest of it is just confusing to get up and running. The device looks like an internet ready tablet, but the browser sucks, the web cam is good for nothing and video doesn't even render correctly... So if you think you got what you paid for, congratulations, I am so glad I am not in your family. |
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I hesitated to enter this conversation, but I got to wondering... Could testerj's N800 just have been b0rked from the get-go?
I mean, I don't think I've come across one website that didn't render at least 95% of what it was supposed to. My personal PIM/webmail suite (group-office.com) is Ajax-heavy PHP and it works flawlessly -- hell, my own website (stricken with non-compliant html, Prototype and Rico Ajax, etc.) works fine on my N800. Likewise, my IT has become a desktop replacement. Everything I need to do for work (aside from running Photoshop, Final Cut, Protools, etc.) can be done on my N800. I use Microsoft Exchange, convert Word Docs to PDFs, write, sketch... Anyway, as someone who isn't entirely comfortable in Linux or the command line, I can honestly say that my only disappointments have been: 1. The OS2007 (and less) firmware update process. 2. Lack of an integrated PIM. 3. Lack of desktop-to-IT syncing tool. That's hardly enough for me to complain about the $400 I spent -- especially considering all of the friends I've made through the maemo community! Tim P.S. Posted from my N800 while my son watches Veggie Tales. ;) |
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I don't understand why you are getting upset. I'd agree that the email client is awful but the rest ....
Virtually all websites work as expected, yes there are the occasional formatting issues but nothing too bad. Using mplayer I have no problems viewing videos. Heck it even plays music. In all it's the best electrical product I've bought, i can't even remember where my ipod mini is. |
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I do agree that the dysfunctional webcam blows big baby chunks... |
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You wanted a device that does not exist yet from any manufacturer, and pro'ly never will. Nokia didn't promote it as being anything more than it is. A collection of hardware that can do many things, not ALL things. Looking at the hardware I knew it could do what I wanted it to do. But, like the collection of links I provided, I also knew I had to do some of the work too. My complaint would be that it still can't connect to an iDEN BT phone. I can't whine to much about that because it still connects to "most" BT phones as they advertised, but I know since I submitted the bug, they are working on it. They told me so. And BTW, since you brought up "family", you could be wrong about that too. :) |
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what he wants is an eee except w/ the power of a dell xps, i mean, he really wants a full computer inhis pocket which is ridiculous, while i admit it's a little labor extensive getting it to work just as you want, you dont have to be a linux geek, or dabble at all(thx to this site), but i do see some things that he said that are true, such as the fact that video is not comparable to devices w/ similar processing power, like the psp will play video better is what i meant, though transcoding is needed for it too i guess, my psp format vids wont play well on my device, buthey livable, nokia is doing a great thing here though, so dont complain so much, we here are like the beta testers ok? nokia was ahead of the curve with the 770, now everybody else is catching up, but nokia is getting everything right, and its taking our ideas and integrating them, we all know the keyboard on the 810 is cause so many people here use bt keyboards, they make it more and more useable every time, only the iPhone devices are really main stream, and look where they are, they are haveing trouble everywhere, every step of the way, but here we are using debian, which (no offense) was kinda hard to use, at least compared, but look where we are, the 2nd gen, and going strong
and btw, w/ every new os release things get hard to get used to(this is off topic) and as is the nature of them, as they try to get things right, and i think they should give those developers theirs earlier or work with them when making it, as they are pretty open, so as the released product is more ready for apps |
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Ah, some refreshing rant.
Yes, I too could blast away my internal frustrations with this tablet, but at some point one must ask themselves where is the real stuggle? hmmm Ya its the tablet. ;) When I was shopping for just an mp3 player, I pondered what the point was of spending $300+ for a one trick pony that just played about 256mb of music out of the box. So with phone company promos I ended up with the so-called mighty Treo650, which was really priced about $700. After a time with that chicklet screen and tragically limited OS, I discovered a saving grace thanks to Zlauncher and their contribution that pulled the old OS up off the ground for a while longer and bridged memory card access issues as well. How many generations of Palm was that?..and still it was wrought with lots of end user problems. My point being that while I can agree with the elements of frustration, I would say this IT (N800) is a heck of a device for its price notably compared to my Treo650 at close to double or a locked up iPhone or the much storied Blackberry which does what really?, for far too much money. So before I sound like a cheerleader, I certainly have really cursed in newbie angst at the various glitches and instability of the N800 I have seen. Yet here I am, immediately surfing into Maemo digging for the latest, and fishing out even the Beta's in the enthusiasm to look ahead. Personalizing to my own. I want the leading edge with a good growth curve, NOT the Blackberry/iPhone prepackaged locked in a can no third party apps, here have a calendar/calculator kind of product. ;) When I think of what I have seen in growth and developments in just under a year here, I sit back with a little more 'Patience' and welcome the next progressions. That said, N810 was definitely not where I thought things would go next. :( Now I am shopping for dual 16g sdhc's for my N800, and trying to be clear with myself as to "my" prime points of usage. So to all those suffering great cynism, go buy another piggish vulnerable Microsoft product and arm load of WM5/6 programs for $60+ each, to do the basics that Palm was doing years ago for close to free. My father always said: "Progress not Perfection". |
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