Opera for OS2008?
 

I wished nokia had kept the opera browser in OS2008. The microb browser is nowhere near as good, and will probably never be.

Does anybody know how to extract opera from OS2007 for use in OS2008?

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Probably wouldn't work, as explained here:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...725#post104725

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

MicroB is so much better than a browser that's 3 years old that can't handle a majority of the sites I visit. Sites these days use AJAX and Javascript a lot more and none of them would be usable with Opera, so what's the point?

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

I also miss having the ability to switch between the two browsers, but I would not agree that Opera is "better", and I don't know how you would know how the two applications will develop. What, specifically, does Opera do better?

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Funny, MicroB chokes hard on some Yahoo sites (Yahoo Sports) that Opera handled just fine. If I can't trust MicroB to bring me the scores... sigh.

MicroB also seems slower than Opera, the 'fingertip' scrolling seems to be pickier, the nav pad seems 'sluggish'... sigh.

Nokia, get your heads out of your rectums and pay Opera to port Opera!

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Well spoken! This stinks of cost cutting.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Pfft. Give MicroB some time, it's only been available on the platform for less than 6 months (heck, it hasn't even been released as a built-in non-beta product from Nokia), and doesn't have the embedded background that Opera has (Opera 8.5 is nearly 5 years old, with 2 years on the tablets. How many of you actually used Opera under OS2005?). MicroB is open source (BIG positive) and much more standards compliant. Give it some time to mature and it will be leaps and bounds better than Opera (in my opinion, it already is :)).

Opera is gone (and good riddance!) if you want to help MicroB to become great, head on over to http://bugs.maemo.org/ and start submitting bug reports (but search first, please).

Hardly. The people Nokia pays to develop MicroB aren't free. ;) What it really stinks of is freeing us from yet another old, broken, proprietary piece of software in favor of a standards-compliant open source one!

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

MicroB is absolutely lousy at handling images. Images slow the thing down to the point where I suspect a crash, kinda like what opera did with Flash-heavy sites, MicroB does with image-heavy ones.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

So in the meantime, we should suffer with a browser that crashes more than the old one? A browser that's slower than the old one?

Some improvement.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

There are truths to both sides here. MicroB handles some stuff better than Opera does, but for the stuff that Opera does handle it mostly does it quicker than MicroB and with a smaller memory footprint. (MicroB seems to crash more as well, at least in the OS2007 version. For some of those cases it seems to be linked to running out of memory. So, memory and speed seems to be the main problem compared with Opera. Improved Ajax is the the major point MicroB has over Opera, presumably.)

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

I think MicroB on OS2008 has been a big step up from the OS2007beta. Much faster initial load, faster rendering, lots of CSS fixes. While Opera was a nice option for lightweight sites I was pretty much saved by MicroB as Opera couldn't handle the backend of our online store. I'd love to have both still, but if I had to pick one... :D

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

I think we've got a winner.

Opera is very good at working on devices with small memory footprints. They've spent years developing Opera to run on smartphones, embedded devices, and so on. They've obviously got some clue at how to handle pages when you're dealing with resource limits. More importantly, they seem to know how to render pages to fit on small displays.

MicroB, on the other hand, is a slimmed down Mozilla. To my knowledge, nobody has *ever* called Mozilla slim, svelte. I'm actually quite sure that the terms thrown around were 'resource hog' and 'memory hungry'. Which is fine if you're on a desktop with a fast processor and adequate memory.

Here's where Nokia needs to snap to attention. The tablets are resource constrained. 128MB of RAM (and 128MB of semi-slow swap) is not a lot of memory. I don't have Opera installed anymore, so I can't do comparisons, I'd wager if you have both Opera and MicroB installed on an OS2007 device, and compare memory usage when rendering the same page, Opera would come out ahead.

I'm not saying MicroB doesn't have potential, and I'm not saying that one day it won't be great. It clearly has potential. It's just not great now. It's barely adequate now. And Nokia shouldn't be passing barely adequate off on it's loyal users. Keep the barely adequate products in beta and development until they're fully adequate. :)

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Now that's just hyperbole, and you know it. I've been using MicroB exclusively since the beta was first released, and it's certainly far from "barely adequate".

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Is it? If I'm losing some capability, and I certainly am, it's not adequate compared to what I had before. It's buggy, it's slower, and it crashes. Compared to the old opera, it's a step backwards.

For example, explain to me why I see horizontal scrollbars on http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl. Why bother with the zoom buttons if I'm going to have to scroll horizontally. Opera never had such issues.

Now, I love the fact that you selectively quoted me, kudos. But I didn't say it won't improve... I certainly think it will. I just don't think it's done yet, and I don't think it's going to be done for a number of months, and I think throwing it out too early is going to turn people off.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

I have done this exact test, and yes, Opera comes out ahead. Particularly when there are any images on the page. For some reason this seems to take much more memory in MicroB.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

My personal experience/feeling is that MicroB on OS2008 is better overall than Opera was on OS2007. I rarely see MicroB crashing on OS2008 (certainly less than Opera did for me on OS2007). Also, during OS2007 days there was too much times that I had to use MicroB beta since Opera just didn't work at all (Like CVS web site you can't browse at all. Once I was browsing newegg's web site and Opera always crashed... while MicroB just handled it fine.) While MicroB still has many bugs, I haven't found those too serious to ruin my web experience...

I agree that Opera is certainly better optimized for portable devices than Microb, at least for now. But since MicroB does support more websites and features, and does work reasonably well on OS2008, I do see a point on developing it further and dropping Opera. (We do not want developers limited resources to work on TWO projects... what would cause both projects become crap...)

Again, just my 2 cents... YMMV.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Umm, because the page demands more then 800px :) Looks like it expects 1024px width. So even if you do 80% zoom (which is a dumb option, should be 75%) then you would only get a virtual 1000px. Maybe you had the "Fit width to view" option enabled ? Or Opera was just willing to toss some layout pixels to make it fit... not sure.

I really haven't seen it "crash" yet with the sites I frequent. Of course YMMV, but if you have sites that do it all the time I'm sure they would love to know about it so can be fixed.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Just wait for OS2008.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Heh, if you wanted a browser that worked 100% of the time you should have bought a pocket pc. Oh, wait......



:D

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Well, everything I've read about the N810 has convinced me to stick with my N800. Give it time? What right do I have to expect a "mature" software app? I guess I can expert the next vehicle I buy to have only forward gears working, no reverse.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Except that there's nothing anywhere near that problematic on Microb whatsoever so your analogy makes zero sense.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Well, the point I was trying to make (by exaggeration) is that I would expect a "mature" product for day one and not have to wait for it to mature. Don't get me wrong, I do love my N800 and I'm not in hurry to adopt OS2008.

Happy Holidays!

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

The whole Internet Tablet concept is thrown out too early.
That's why I love it. That's why I hate it.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Ya, when I purchased my N800 last February, I had very low expectations. I think for that reason I have almost always been very happy with it. I looked around and saw that it cost about what I would have paid for a Skype WIFI phone + an MP3 player. With the N800 that's what I have plus a bunch of fun programs including a Camera. FWIW- I also heard today that Pandora is one web site that does work better with the 08 OS than it does with the 07 OS. Pandora apparently now continues playing instead of having to tap the screen to get it playing again. So I love my nokia. I understand that the whole project is a BETA probably and I'm fine with that because I think I'm already getting my money's worth with it. Heck, around $250 for one now? What a deal. So I think most of this is about what you are expecting when you buy. I understand getting PO'd at Nokia. But I wonder where they would be if they waited until it was 'perfect'. What would define that? I like the dream they seem to have for it. They just seem to be a bit maddening about the process sometimes.

NS

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

I'm waiting for an update or hack that will finally let me configure MicroB to do what I was able to do in Opera:
Use the dpad to page-up and page-down through a page. The way it is now is horrible.
I don't understand why the dpad just jumps from link-to-link when there's a friggin TOUCHSCREEN on the device itself that can be used to click links!?!?!?
It should at least be an option one can easily enable via the preferences menu.
Until MicroB gets that functionality then it will always be second-place to Opera.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Someone packaged up a DEB to do exactly that and posted a link on bugzilla...also there is a direct hack somewhere on the forum but I can't get it working on OS2007. Do a search.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

I stand corrected.
Found that link to the excellent how-to hack it, couldn't find the deb.
Still....it should be nothing more than a preferences setting from within the browser itself.
Now...how to get rid of the scrollbars when in full-screen mode? Anyone? Bueller?

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Even though I prefer the microb browser, I miss having choice. Hopefully that webkit project can get up to speed and release on OS2008. The guys working on it seem pretty dedicated, Nokia should send them some free n810's as incentive. With the mobile web (at least inthe US) increasingly iPhone optimized this browser option would be great.

http://blog.gwright.org.uk/articles/...t-and-the-n800

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

There have been some desktop speed comparisons of Opera vs Mozilla, and opera came out significantly ahead. Granted, it will be different on this platform than on a PC, but I believe the comparison generally is similar. Opera has a few more rendering problems, but is faster.

I prefer Opera myself, but I think both browsers should be available, and could be improved. The small memory footprint and fast response just makes browsing more enjoyable.

Now, if only we could have IE7... *ducks*

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well spoken:
Earlier this month I found on my N800 (OS2007: 4.2007.38-2) installation application an upgrade for Microb-browser; now 0.0.8-4 (not sure if version has changed). As a result the MicrOb is even slower (I know: OS 20008...), and does not respond easily to finger scrolling or hyperlink initiating. Too many sites are not displayed correctly, stopping or even unusable, i.e. Reuters or Yahoo Beta, (zooming problems). These are major sites that should run smoothly! Opera a runs these sites (Yahoo old style !) smoothly, but performs for example slow on You tube. This all maybe of course temporary until OS2008 is full-grown.

As I am quite happy with my N800 -I will certainly try the OS 2008. However I am getting somewhat concerned that Opera is not available in OS2008 and that -maybe- I cannot switch back to OS2007 with Opera. Las tweek I issued a FEEDBACK to the Nokia Support Site stressing them to keep OS 2007 available. I think this may be important.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

That's a ludicrous thing to say, both browsers are more than adequate for the majority of users.

Sure, there are some examples where one or both fail, but most (in my experience 99.9%) of the time they render pages pretty much like a PC.

It would be nice if people wouldn't resort to extreme claims when making criticisms, it makes it very hard to take the criticisms seriously. A solid, measured criticism (for example saying that MicroB messes up certain specific sites) carries a lot more weight.


There is absolutely nothing to stop Opera releasing their browser for OS 2008 as a third party piece of commercial software. The OS 2008 SDK has been available for some time now.

Opera have done this on Nokia's S60 smartphones, you can buy and install Opera instead of using the built-in S60 browser. If they choose not to do it on the tablets then that's entirely Opera's decision.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well spoken:
Earlier this month I found on my N800 (OS2007: 4.2007.38-2) installation application an upgrade for Microb-browser; now 0.0.8-4 (not sure if version has changed). As a result the MicrOb is even slower (I know: OS 20008...), and does not respond easily to finger scrolling or hyperlink initiating. Too many sites are not displayed correctly, stopping or even unusable, i.e. Reuters or Yahoo Beta, (zooming problems). These are major sites that should run smoothly! Opera a runs these sites (Yahoo old style !) smoothly, but performs for example slow on You tube. This all maybe of course temporary until OS2008 is full-grown.

As I am quite happy with my N800 -I will certainly try the OS 2008. However I am getting somewhat concerned that Opera is not available in OS2008 and that -maybe- I cannot switch back to OS2007 with Opera. Las tweek I issued a FEEDBACK to the Nokia Support Site stressing them to keep OS 2007 available. I think this may be important.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Yes, but there were major sites that didn't run AT ALL on Opera. Google Documents for example wouldn't even open, it refused to let users log in.

The fundamental problem is that Google and other major sites no longer support Opera because it has such a small market share. It's not really a technical problem, Opera is technically more than good enough, it's simply that the site owners don't think such support is worth their while for such a small percentage of their users.

There's nothing that Opera or Nokia can do about this, and the only solution from Nokia's point of view is to switch to a browser that does have a large market share.

Google Docs does work on MicroB, because Mozilla/Firefox does have a very significant market share, so the site designers support it. That implies that as far as web-based services go, it's better to use a browser which has a large market share.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

True both for measured criticism and Yes, It's the Market stupid. So Why not use Safari ? ;)

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Actually Nokia DO use Safari on their S60 smartphones, in a way.

The Safari and S60 browsers are both based on the same open source core, and many websites recognise them as the same browser. You can even run mobile sites intended for the iPhone on S60 smartphones.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Well, WebKit is not a Safari =) Like Gecko is not Firefox ;)

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

Agreed.
However the Apple Iphone advertisement says Safari.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

I have to disagree with this and other blanket statements made.

Good/bad in this case seems mostly subjective, ie, determined by an individual user's experience and expectations. I haven't seen images cause as much a problem with MicroB as sheer site size and scripting do. But that's due to my browsing habits.

Personally Opera was horrible for me because it could not handle sites like wellsfargo.com. MicroB solved that, again helping *my* situation.

But GeneralAntilles' point about MicroB being open is the clincher here. It means there is potential for faster fixes with it than Opera. That would include performance. It just remains to be seen if that potential is fulfilled.

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

What in the world are you on about? O_o

Re: Opera for OS2008?
 

I think AbelMN feels the Internet Tablet Talk community is not open and mature enough because many people thanked you for the opinion you voiced in post #7 of this thread. At least, that's my best guess after several re-readings.

I'm going to go lie down for a bit.