Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reality
 

I would like to discuss an application idea with developers here who are keen to develop the world's first motorsport performance analysis tool for the Nokia Internet Tablet.

Seeing that the Internet Tablet can be paired with a GPS device (or use the built-in one on the N800), here's what I have in mind

Seems to me that it would be possible to get the N800 running as a logging tool for trackdays when paired with a GPS software, if someone would be able to cobble together some code to log and analyze the log data.

The way I see it, using the logs and the correct formulas, it would be possible to have the N800 compute the rate of acceleration/deceleration/speed at any given point, average speed between two or more points that can be user-defined, and time taken between two or more user-defined points (for lap timing and sector timing). User should also be able to define start/stop lines (which may or may not be the same coordinates), pre- or post-event, and every pass across that virtual line counts as one lap.

Even with most commonly available GPS receivers, this should be good for up to +/- 0.3s of accuracy, which isn't too bad if the software isn't too costly to begin with.

It would also be useful if we could use the USB Host mode to log specific data from the car (oil temp, water temp, MAP, etc) alongside the GPS logs.

I believe the processor on the N800/N810 should also be able to display this information in real-time, i.e. best lap time in current session, average lap time, Vmax, warning indicators (if tapping to the ECU was possible, we could see oil temp, water temp, rpm, etc)

Versions:

The first version could be done to only log GPS data and then analyze the data post-logging. After the logs have been saved, the app can display the various paths (lines) taken by the car, and the user designate the start/stop line. Version 1 would only allow 1 start/stop line to be defined. Based on the defined start/stop range coordinates (app defines it as a line 25m perpendicular to the direction of travel in the first lap

Post-event analysis should show:

Lap Lap Time
1 1m 20.4s
2 1m 18.7s
3 1m 19.3s
4 1m 22.6s
5 1m 15.2s Best Lap
6 1m 16.5s

Up to 30 laps can be recorded in a single file.

User can then save the log file for later analysis

Later versions could offer

real-time display
- showing current lap time (left pane, large numbers, minutes on top, seconds below)
- best lap time (right pane, top 1/3 of screen, medium-sized numbers)
- last 5 lap times (right pane, bottom 2/3 of screen, in small font

offline analysis of sector time
- time taken to travel between two user-defined points on the track
- user can define up to 99 points
- compare time taken between point 1 and point 2, point 2 and point 3, point 5 and point 8, etc -- user selects the points to reference, and system computes based on GPS coordinates

lap compare
- user selects the laps to select, up to 5 laps.
- On selecting the laps to be compared, user clicks 'Compare' and it will show overlays of one lap over another, in different colours, 2 pixels wide)
- When user clicks on 'Play', a large dot will appear on the paths of each lap, indicating position, speed (displayed on a pane on the right), and acceleration (+ = acceleration, - = deceleration), so that the user can see the cause of the time differences between laps.
- User should be able to control playback speed, from 100% (real-time) to 25%, in 10% increments

Connectivity to ODB-II
- generic drivers similar to Carman can be used to gather data from the ECU on engine speed (rpm), coolant temp, ignition timing, etc and logged against the GPS logs, so that users can study behaviour of the car at any given position of a lap
- screen can be made to blink different colours depending on the warning type, e.g. if oil temp > 140 deg C, flash screen green; if rpm > 7000 rpm, flash screen red -- or use a pane on the right to flash.

If there are any developers who are keen to work on this with me, I would be happy to do so, and we can either release it as freeware or commercial.

I know a number of people who would be keen to use such a software, and I'm sure some of us here are petrolheads in addition to NiT zealots :)

Cheers

Kenneth

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

People I think would be able to pull this off:

The guy(s) who did Carman, and Maemo Mapper

handful?

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

hi guys, ghoomk...

Actualy is guys =) and we didn't do maemo mapper .. but we did this :

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2207/...f1c66e.jpg?v=0

Just like maemo mapper, with navigation and more.. integrated in canola (what we call Canola Car Edition...


But just my 2 cents: I think the idea is great. As concept / interaction designer for the projects (carman / canola ) we wanted to provide this, I don't know if the version is going public soon, but more or less what you say we released at LGPL thus you could use it to build your software =) that's the beauty of open source.

The plans for carman was exacly like that.. you have a "rich" ui that is used just for in car , tuning lovers satisfaction, and the GTK UI where you can create all kinds of reports, logging with or without GPS to generate several kinds od data.

One of the concepts we implemented was to be able not only to log everything from you but also from your friend, with Carman's communicating via internet .. thus you can see your friends info on the screen..and log them also to compare with yours.

I think the combination of OBD2 with GPS very powerful...So if you need help (actually we don't have time.. but we can always try to help) contact us in the channels in freenode.. or via email!

BR

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

I've thought about this too. I've got my N800 mounted to the handlebars of my motorcycle with Maemo mapper running too.

I actually know the guys who provide the GPS systems they use in NASCAR over here in the USA. To get the accuracy they wanted, they combined a GPS system with an inertial measurement system. Seems that GPS suffered from occasional reflection off of other cars.

Is there simple snippets of code somewhere to show GPS logging? I'd like to play with it. I have a track day scheduled in about a month down here in Houston.

David

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

The problem for this is GPS accuracy. It just isn't good enough, and won't be soon. You'll certainly need 5Hz sampling, but the position errors will be a problem. GPS is only good to about 30 feet accuracy, and sometimes less. Reflected signals can cause much larger errors. There is survey-grade differential GPS available, but it's expensive and not very portable.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

@sgosnell : I'm using a 5Mhz receiver, not the one in the N810 as I understand that one is 1 Mhz

@ handful/marcelo : I would be happy to take this offline with you, just send me your email address and if you are keen to take up this project, we could take this forward. I know you guys have done stuff like this, and if we take this forward, we can develop the logging component and basic lap timing as phase 1, then introducing the rest of the features as we go along. I will leave it to your discretion on whether you want to offer this as freeware, commercial, shareware or donationware. There is a fairly large market of amateur motorsport enthusiasts who would balk at spending over USD800 on a unit such as the RaceLogic Performance Box (and who don't need the accelerometers), and the Nokia Internet Tablet would make an excellent alternative offering lap timing, analysis (which you could offer as a Pro version), GPS navigation (good to be able to get home after track day), music and video jukebox and mobile internet device.

Integration to Carman would allow users to diagnose and reset DTCs without needing to lug around a separate device. This integration could be used to display real-time graphs and warning indicators.

I have a Tactrix cable (http://www.tactrix.com) that I use for datalogging ECU data from my track Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR and use Mitsulogger (http://www.aktivematrix.com)

When this project is complete, you guys can look into selling hardware, software and accessory bundles, and we can test compatibility across multiple vehicle makes and I can assist in the promotion of this setup.

Let me know -- As a product and launch manager, I would like to offer you guys my years of experience in product development (from a requirements perspective) and marketing if it would help take this project forward.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

I disagree with you on this point (I think). Although GPS's absolute accuracy is not going to be enough (certainly with a single GPS and no additional DGPS information), which is why surveyors must use something more high-tech, we're talking about relative changes here.

For this, my understanding is that GPS not too inaccurate. Certainly there will be the standard problems with poor signal, but the more immediate problem is that you can probably only get data out at 1Hz (i.e. one reading per second). This will work for gross measurements, but for acceleration calculation you'll need a higher sampling rate, which means a more expensive GPS system that is able to output at higher frequency.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Which goes back to my earlier point that a 5mhz receiver should be used for optimal results. These do not cost much these days and certainly cost less than a semi-professional datalogging tool.

I believe the internal GPS on the N810 will work, but is sub-optimal

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Forget GPS and use WII remote. There is already many projects + maemo garage projects Py Axel Wii (http://pyaxelwii.garage.maemo.org/)

Well you could use gps for accuring and sync location coordinates when you are standing still (GPS accuracy as it best). I believe this could be great feature for maemo mapper as well. N800 users wouldn't even need gps because they could just point out start position at map layout. Thats assuming they know where they are.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Don't think it'd work that well. DJS spoke of the NASCAR system using GPS and accelerometers. The accelerometers get you short time-scale, and the GPS long time-scale. You can't use (consumer-grade, wiimote-ish) accelerometers alone for long time-scales because of the double integration. Basically, your velocity error increases with time, and then your position error increases as the square of time, so you need GPS to correct it.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Well I have heard that WII remote accelerometer is very good, but how its performs at track is different story. It needs to bee tested.

There are ways to reduce this "position error as the square of time" dilemma at race track.
Simple way it's users sync as new lap starts users taps screen, preses button or plays a sound.
Little advance method would bee use WII IR leds, but if WII IR can't receive its more tricky.

As in map or navigation mode it should bee hard to correct your position every now and then. When we have tested results how long accelerometer error stays in reasonable rates. We can time gps or users syncs accordingly.

Does somebody actually know more about WII remote. How sensitive it is, can it be programmed in any way, Whats is power consumption in active use, Does it draw more or less power than gps receiver ?

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Good idea, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I already have a Performance Box and this is one of the most accurate units out in the market for motorsport datalogging applications, using only a 5Mhz receiver, and built-in accelerometers to carry out lap timing and GPS datalogging. The log file can be analyzed using the PerformanceTools software suite on the PC, which prompted me to wonder if a similar application concept could be executed by the Internet Tablet.

As mentioned previously, this project is meant to offer a low-cost alternative to motorsport enthusiasts and not as a replacement for more accurate logging tools such as the PerformanceBox. Seeing that the cost of the N800 is going anywhere but up, with prices falling to under USD250 a unit, adding a USD99 GPS receiver and a USD75 16GB SDHC card will turn the N800 into a personal navigation device, a portable media player, a mobile internet tablet and a motorsport datalogging and analysis tool.

The challenge here today is not whether the Wii controller (which I agree is a great idea) would make a good enhancement to the setup, but if we can find a developer to help bring this idea to fruition.

My offer stands to help bring this project to light, and seeing that I lack the necessary skills for development, a partner is sought in this area to help make this concept a reality. I, for one, know that the iT has the capabilities for datalogging and analysis, as well as display of real-time information based on live data feeds from the GPS receiver as well as other sources such as an OBD-II port.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Yes, I meant INS with no GPS. With GPS for stability, the accelerometer data is great -- it fills in the details you don't get from GPS. Syncing at a fixed point on the track w/o gps is harder, if you're going by at >100 mph,you can't hit a button with reliable enough timing.It's BT, so no power draw from the N8x0 at all. I'm sure it's less power total, but I assume you'd be hacking it anyway, and hardwiring it to power from the car, so I wouldn't think total power matters.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Okay, we will need to assume that the unit will be plugged into the car charger. A Wii controller would offer the ability to measure lateral G and acceleration/deceleration.

Marcelo, do you know any developers who would be keen to take on such a project?

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

I'm cross-posting this over to Apps in the hope for better exposure...

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

How much are Wii controllers and an OBD2-Bluetooth connection? Can they both be connected at the same time?

If they are cheap enough, people might buy them and play around just for fun, otherwise cost is probably a limiting factor for most people, especially if they don't really have a goal in mind.

The other limiting factor in my case is that I don't think I have an OBD2 port. Buying a new car to rectify that little issue makes it even more expensive ;D

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Ok, so I see one can get a BT OBD2 scanner for ~£100.

Not too expensive, but certainly enough to need a definite project to use it with.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Most cars today have an OBD-II connector. What are you driving? perhaps it has a CAN BUS instead of OBD-II?

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

It's probably proprietary (what little bus data there may be), a 1996 Renault Clio RSi.

I hope to buy something new(ish) in the next few months, then my interest in looking at OBD data will no doubt increase (vehicle driveability analysis was my PhD, this would have been useful back then :)

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

You're right, Google doesn't return any relevant results on the 1996 Clio using CAN or OBD-I/II.

Any developers keen to take up this project? This has commercial potential, and I would be happy to assist in marketing the software across various online motorsport forums

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Few ideas not yet mentioned for gyros:

• A gyroscopic presentation mouse could possibly be mounted in a fixed position. The receiver is USB, so that's how it would have to talk to the PDA. ($70 USD)
• A nav system with a built-in gyro -- normally only expensive nav systems have it, but geeks.com has an exceptionally cheap one. The down side is you have hack two devices; the Maemo app/driver, and the GPS unit. ($150 USD)
• A bluetooth gyroscope for aviation. This device must certainly have the precision required, but only practical for millionaires. ($1k USD)

Also, does the application you folks are discussing require OBD updates more frequently than ~0.03Hz? If so, that could be an issue. This video review of Carman/Elmscan 5 shows very sluggish realtime performance from the OBD interface (guages update once or twice a minute).

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

If that is the case, then it would probably make more sense to have the system log both GPS (phase 1) and OBD-II (phase 2) data, then run the analysis offline. We will know more once a developer comes forward to let us know which features are viable and which are not. :)

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Several things (note I'm working on doing Zmapper and already get bus data from my Harley (If you have google earth, try http://homepage.mac.com/tz1/.Public/HarleyTelem2.kmz)

Not the track, but my Gear and RPM:

http://homepage.mac.com/tz1/.Public/rpm%2Bgear.jpg

This is with a 5Hz GPS, and not fully interpolating the data.

But let me break some misconceptions and myths.

The location is ACCURATE to only a 2.5-3 meters, but is PRECISE to a much smaller space especially over a very short time when the satellites used aren't changing and all have the same error. Otherwise every fix would swing in and out within the 3 meters. It doesn't. It often moves by a micro degree or two at most.

Also, the speed measurement (actually you can get XYZ velocity vectors on some) is also quite accurate, which you would need for performance.

Accelerometers may help but how accurate (and calibrated) are they? You don't need much for a Wii using it as a game device, but it isn't likely to be precise enough for doing performance work. The chips inside might be capable, but you might need to worry about noise, temperature, etc. if you want it to differentiate between 0.65 and 0.66g instead of just 0.6 and 0.7.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Agreed. Hence, the objective now is to keep the project simple and focus on the key functions. Having accelerometers is nice, but not critical to a motorsport application at this level. People who want a full-fledged tool for really high-quality data analysis are better off with a dedicated device such as a Racelogic Performance Box (http://www.performancebox.co.uk).

I also believe that it should not be impossible to have the application use the output file format from PerformanceBox, so that the tablet can be used as a portable analytics tool -- it sure beats having to keep a laptop in the car, or leave it in the pits during every track session

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

I have a n800 and an OBD2 scanner on its way in the post. I can help with testing if needed.

I'm a developer but I haven't done anything on the Maemo platform yet so not much use there at the moment but I can help someone else out if required.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

I had developed pyAxelWii for this purpose of measuring accelaration (0 - 100kph), quarter mile time and also for checking the performance of my motorcycle after various tinkering. One problem I faced is that all the accelaration data should be captured fast otherwise, the end result may change.

I have currently postponed my development since my N800 has been sent for replacement and I expect to recieve it by mid march.

Currently I have a 50$ Bluetooth gps (holux m1000) which I am using to plot my position/speed on a webserver. I have a small board running debian http://www.wireless-products.dk/Lexcom/WP-CV862A.htm

I also plan to interface my car with OBD interface to get more info.

I would be very much interested in development in this area.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

What kind of mounting do you have to keep the N800 on the handlebars?

if you have gpsd and python, here is the python code to get the gps data

import gps, os, time
session = gps.gps()
while 1:
os.system('clear')
session.query('admos')
# a = altitude, d = date/time, m=mode,
# o=postion/fix, s=status, y=satellites
print
print ' GPS reading'
print '----------------------------------------'
print 'latitude ' , session.fix.latitude
print 'longitude ' , session.fix.longitude
print 'time utc ' , session.utc, session.fix.time
print 'altitude ' , session.fix.altitude
print 'eph ' , session.fix.eph
print 'epv ' , session.fix.epv
print 'ept ' , session.fix.ept
print 'speed ' , session.fix.speed
print 'climb ' , session.fix.climb

time.sleep(1)

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Wow, super simple. Didn't realise it was so easy to get gps data. I feel a coding session coming on for me to have a play with this somemore. :)

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

That's very useful to know. The other day I was criticizing most of the nav systems on the market for not having a gyro. (Aside from pricey dash mounts, only tomtom and cobra seems to have intertial nav as a backup). Someone told me the gyro is useless, because of the mutual gross inaccuracy of both GPS and maps. My claim was that with a gyro, a nav system would know to reroute quicker in the event of a deviation. Currently, most nav systems are unaware when someone deviates until the deviation is very significant, and then often the rerouting isn't complete until you're already at the next intersection. But according to what you're saying w/ precision being acceptable, information from a gyro would indeed enable a nav package to begin the rerouting process sooner. Correct? I'm also thinking a gyro could be used as sole navigation for tunnels and other GPS dark spots.

OTOH, if the precision of GPS is good, then why does it take so long for a GPS system like TTN6 to discover that I've deviated?

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

let's keep in mind that the intention here is to build a cheap and affordable GPS log analytics tool for the trackday/karting enthusiast. Most motorsport enthusiasts would not be overly concerned about their lateral G readings as they would be over stuff like average speed, sector time, lap time, etc.

Also, most tracks/circuits are outdoors with very few of them having coverage blackout areas, and even if there were, the small anomaly in reading would not be significant enough to affect the data much. Also, motorsport enthusiasts on a budget would not be overly concerned about having accuracy down past the 1/100th of a second, and if they did, I would happily recommend that they start considering a prosumer tool like the Performance Box that costs around 3 times as much.

The tablet's advantage here is that it is portable and has good battery life. If I could find someone to port EcuFlash (www.openecu.org), Mitsulogger (www.aktivematrix.com), and ScanTech (www.aktivematrix.com), and run it alongside the GPS log analytics tool, that would be perfect. Ecuflash would allow me to maintain my street and track ECU ROMs in my tablet and allow me to change maps at the track without needing to carry around my notebook. Likewise, I would be able to use Mitsulogger to do ECU datalogging from the OBD-II port, and use ScanTech to identify and remove DTCs and troubleshoot where needed.

Adding a gyro and other peripherals at this point in time would increase the complexity of development significantly without any huge gains.

For now, what I really need are suggestions on how to get freelance developers who are looking to put their name on a project like this, to get this project off the ground.

As it were, I'm almost prepared to run a small coding contest with a small prize pot of USD5000 to the winning application.

vabgeo, you seem knowledgeable on such matters. Are you keen to try your hand at coding this app?

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

I'm not sure what a TTN6 is - TomTom? Usually they have some kind of stickiness algorithm for when you go under bridges or into tunnels - it assumes you stick to the nearest road until you are about 10 meters out at least (My navman GPS/router does something like this - it was fun on a section where I was ON the PA Turnpike and it insisted I was on a side road). The nav software tends not to trust the GPS, or at least isn't good enough to distinguish Dilution of Precision, or even number of satellites, or DGPS via WAAS or EGNOS. The point displayed on the map even at high zoom (like my Zmapper for the zaurus, now working on the nokia) is often right on the line (well within 3 meters). But another problem might be the maps aren't always accurate. US14 has a new section (Janesville to Waseca MN) that still isn't on many online maps. So the problem might be an attempt to compensate if the map is off (or traffic is on the shoulder or across as in an construction zone).

On the topic of mounts, since I have an n810, its AMPS mount, and a DockNRock (amp+dual speaker handlebar clamp) on my motorcycle, I plan on mounting it there. I already checked it would fit. Now if the ice would just go away :). I'm using an AMPS panavise mount I mentioned in accessories in my car.

However my GPS and my EVDO system might go elsewhere. The above image was from a KR1 router in a drybox I have attached to my sissy bar. The velocity data is live (series of KMLs), but the above was post-processed. I embed the datastream (not OBD2, but I've decoded enough of the traffic to know where the RPM, gear, etc is) within XML comments within the KMLs, so you have a GPS location every 200 mS, followed by records with system milliseconds and the j1850 traffic in hex which you can see if you examine the above telemetry file. (I used to carry an iPod, but won't need that with the Nokia).

Note that KR1 is a mips machine with far less power than the n810. It was just convenient since it ran linux, had two serial ports (hidden), and I could hack the firmware to add GPS.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Make no mistake, USD5000 is no 'small prize pot'. I hope this tempts developers into the fold. A complete list of requirements in a nice specification would help a potential developer, hell for that money I'd do it if I could justify the time! Without a more precise spec its hard to guesstimate how long and thus how worthwhile the bounty is so you really need a comprehensive list of "must have's".

I'm interested as I'm sure many others are.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

In fact looking at the initial post again which is, I suppose, a 'mini-spec', the 'first version' would be well within a short development time-frame. Some of the more advanced features could be expanded on later. Shoot me a PM as I'm interested in learning a little more about the project. Check out my home page (and linked in profile if need be) to see more about me.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

I am always game :) I am comfortable in programming with python maemo , c++, gtk :).

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

I bought a Wii controller for 39$ and a nunchuck for 19$. http://www.wiili.org/index.php/Wiimote#Motion_Sensor . Wiimote uses bluetooth and uses ADXL330 for the motion sensor which has a range of +/-3g. One can also connect multiple Bluetooth devices at a time. I tried with the Wiimote and a BT GPS together and it worked fine.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

Frankly, I never expected to be able to pull this off for free. Ideally, it would be great to find a developer who is open to a revenue share, otherwise I would just commission someone to get this done for a fee and take it commercial/donationware/shareware. I'm also open to a hybrid model where the developer gets paid a token sum, and takes a small revenue share for every licence sold. Many ways to cut the pie, and I'm open to options.

I'll be working on a detailed requirements specification this weekend, and will have something to share with interested developers (e.g. vabgeo) next week.

Re: Motorsport Performance Application - looking for developer to bring idea to reali
 

The 10Hz GPS with J1850 saved to KML is working now. I'm slowly turning my n810 into an instrument cluster for my Harley. Now if only the weather would cooperate.

I'll probably be doing an alpha release of my minigpsd shortly (which does all these things). I've released a "developer" version - no deb, just tarball with source, binaries, and readme.