maemo.org - Talk - Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

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Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Quote:

Being one man's continuing quest for happiness despite years of unfulfillment

I've been using computers a long time (don't ask) and using microcomputers long before Microsoft even sold an OS. I was a DOS guy before I could afford a Macintosh, though I was using Macs at work starting back in 1985. And I happily benefitted from the Mac's strength in desktop publishing software for more than a decade.

When I re-oriented my publishing career towards XML and e-books in 1999, I was forced to be a dual-platform guy. There just weren't any XML tools on the Mac, so I bought a cheapo PC and moved back and forth between my two computers depending on the task.

As I used XML more and my Mac grew ever more gray-bearded, I started buying new programs for the PC instead of for the Mac. This was a huge emotional issue. Where the dollars go, there follows the heart (at least in electronics). Gradually I was transformed from a full-blown Mac enthusiast (and off-hours tech support for various family members long-distance) into a full-time WinXP user. It helped that my job now supplied me with a laptop that I carried from Manhattan office to home office (where I work two days a week) to out-of-state offices every week or three.

When the replacement for XP -- then known as Longhorn, now as Vista -- first raised its head, I found myself unable to accept the transition. Microsoft wanted me to pay more for the OS than I thought I should pay for the computer itself. And forget Apple. That was a company everyone agreed was the next Polaroid, Xerox and Kodak combined, destined never to regain financial security or market strength.*

I figured then that my next OS would be Linux.

I won't go into my beliefs regarding open software, copyright and monopolies. Suffice to say that I'm an extremist. Probably many of you here at ITT have followed the same path towards the sanity of open software (maybe not as far as I). But that pushed me towards Linux, too, of course. I went to some Linux shows in New York. I read articles about software I'd never seen or even heard of that I'd use if I/when I made the switch. I finally met a single person in IT who had experimented with Linux. He didn't know any more than I did.

I didn't actually use Linux till the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet was announced. June 2005.** As before, here was a circumstance where the software I wanted to use existed only on one platform: you couldn't run the Scratchbox SDK for the 770 except on Linux. And I was dying to get in there and do something.

For me, at that time, the best approach looked like a Live CD, which would enable me to boot from a CD and transform my work-supplied laptop into a Linux laptop. More than that, Matthias Schlenker modified a Knoppix (or Kanotix?) Live CD to include "a pre-built Maemo Environment as well as scratchbox for developing applications."

With Matthias' Maemo Live CD, I could actually play with the Maemo GUI. (I wasn't anywhere close to being able to develop an application using it, the rationale for its creation.) And Matthias responded to my requests and included the necessary pieces to build Plucker e-books and read them in the Maemo port made by Nils Faerber and Florian Boor of Kernel Concepts.

I worked out all the steps to go from Windows to Linux to Scratchbox to Plucker Viewer and also from Windows to Linux to Plucker distiller. I wrote a (now-defunct: website disappeared!) tutorial explaining how to make Plucker e-books for the not-yet-released 770. Most of the tutorial dealt with how to make sense of Linux for a non-Linux user like myself.

I used the Maemo Live CD so much I thought I should take the next step and run Linux from the hard drive.

I looked at Knoppix. I looked at SuSE***. I downloaded several LiveCD's and tried them. And ultimately I settled on Mepis, which seemed to be easier to use and understand than any other distro (a new word in my vocabulary).

I had a Mepis Live CD, and I donated some small amount to the Mepis cause, and I installed Mepis on my original desktop PC. I embarked then on the process of learning Linux, buying a book and trying to set up an environment that would replace my PC life.

I never got Scratchbox installed in Mepis, however, and I was really happy with TextPad on the PC and couldn't bring myself to the task of mastering emacs or vim or any marvelous Linux text editor.

So I dabbled, but I didn't catch fire. And eventually I ran into a serious problem on Mepis and was never able to get it resolved. None of the posts I put up at the Mepis forum were ever answered. And the aging desktop Mepis was on seemed slower every time I was on it.

Around this time I had to buy another computer for our household (officially it was for the kids to do their homework on, but my wife uses it during the day and in the late-evening).

Aha! I thought. I'll get a big, big drive and set up a double-boot system.The kids can boot into Windows and I'll have a proper Linux installation.

And I did. This time I opted for the combination of ease-of-use, ease-of-installation and active community. That meant Ubuntu.

So I dug around in the annals of double-booting and got things installed. I wasn't very happy, however. Even with my years of command-line computing, the guidance was curt to the point of snippiness and no matter what I tried, I could not set the default to be the Windows boot. So on 90 percent of the mornings**** the computer is started up, it has to be monitored until the OS is chosen or else the non-Linuxians end up with a brown Ubuntu login screen and have to go through the lengthy process of shutting Linux down and booting up Windows. And every re-start in Windows the same.

Gradually the kids' computer use increased, my wife wanted to spend more time on the web, and it became impossible to get time on this particular computer to learn Linux. So my Ubuntu time shriveled away.

I have an old HP LaserJet 2100M (the model with PostScript) and my wife wanted it downstairs. So I picked up an adaptor that would connect the laser printer to our network. All the Windows machines were able to print to it easily, but finding a driver and understanding what I needed to do to make files printable from the Ubuntu boot took every ounce of my resourcefulness. I got it to work (and published the information for those coming after me), but I was daunted. This was my fourth microcomputer OS, and I didn't have the same appreciation for acquiring subtle knowledge known only to the masters. I wanted to use Linux, not master it. With no daily Linux users among my friends or work acquaintances, it looked like I couldn't have one without the other.

The only specific goal I set for myself on this computer was to enable it for Cambodian keyboarding and get the desktop version of FBReader to show Cambodian texts. I didn't succeed.

Years have passed. After a very lengthy pre-release gestation, Longhorn has emerged as Vista. Still, I am disinclined to migrate to it. My Linux aspirations have fallen considerably. And yet. With OS2008 on the internet tablets, I want to get a development environment set up to see what I can do with building an e-book browser****.

So I thought that maybe I would use VMWare to run Ubuntu under Windows. I have done a fair amount of that with Windows on the Mac, and then Mac on Windows.

I went so far as to download the software and the virtual machine for Ubuntu, but my momentum was so feeble that every possible interruption was sufficient to set aside the install. Never got it going.

Why? I wondered. Well, I think I have an idea now.

You see, after these three and a half passes at Linux use, I have started once again to climb the uphill path. This post by OSEmuTech in response to a thread started by BOFH concerning andLinux was what did it.

One thing I didn't like about the way I had tried things was I had to be in Linux or in Windows. The best I could manage would be to run them at the same time and switch between them if I needed. And, as I had learned with Mac/PC emulations, switching platforms to get to a different app is distinctly unpleasant. (Even if that's better than having to quit one and boot into the other.)

So I was intrigued to learn that andLinux basically lets you run Linux apps while you're on Windows. You don't have two desktops: you just have your Windows desktop. It doesn't install all the Linux versions of every kind of software you use because you use the Windows version you already have if you like it. And you install Linux versions of software you can't get on Windows or for which the Linux version is better.

I installed andLinux this morning.

(Continued in post 8 below.)

Read the full article.

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Arg! Major run-on sentence!

I'm telling your 10th grade English teacher.

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

My eyes! My eyes! arrrgh

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 146932)

Arg! Major run-on sentence!

I'm telling your 10th grade English teacher.

At least is is more readable than the white text on black background. Really messes with my eyes and makes it unreadable. Yeah, i am old. LOL!

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Mac OS X = Win
Vista = Lose
Linux = sudo rm -rf easeofuse

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Sounds like this guy is going to more trouble than is necessary.

I would run something simple like Puppy Linux, and maybe boot from a flash drive. One of the hallmarks of Puppy is an extremely friendly user community, making it easy for beginners to join in the fun.

I'm running Ubuntu and Suse currently, and Puppy from my laptops.

Vista accellerated my migration to Linux too. I got a beta copy of Vista the day it was released to the public, and it just seemed too bloated for me to take, and I also didn't like the feeling that Microsoft was constantly going to be spying on me and forcing me to do this or that as it wished.

In fact, I lived in Russia for a few years, and Vista gave me approximately the same feeling that Putin does. I just don't want to be controlled by either.

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 146932)

Arg! Major run-on sentence!

I'm telling your 10th grade English teacher.

Technology breakdown.

The forum software won't let me edit my post because it's too long. So I was unable to insert the paragraph breaks that make it readable.

You have to click on the link on the main page story (which takes you to www.internettablettalk.com/2008/02/23/me-and-linux-round-4-and-a-half/
) in order to see the readable version.

Roger

(Yes, I know you're wondering how a post that is longer than 10,000 characters and can't be edited could be posted in the forums in the first place. It's because it came in through unusual means, arranged by the arch-software-deviser Reggie.)

Added later: I've chopped off the ending to the original forum post and stuck in post #8, thus making the piece short enough to add newlines and links. Sorry for the Thomas Mann-like text you experienced before :-)

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half, conclusion

(Conclusion of original post)

I installed andLinux this morning. Following OSEmuTech's footsteps, I'll be setting up a Scratchbox development environment. (And, yes, OSEmuTech, I will depend on you to get me past any this-could-be-a-showstopper obstacle.)

These days, my favorite editor is XML Copy Editor, with both Windows and Linux versions. I use Firefox, ditto. And Filezilla for FTP (ditto). And Inkscape for vector drawing (ditto). And Pootling for translations (ditto). And 7-Zip for compression. And I'm migrating to Scribus (ditto) for page-layout. I'm dying to dive into FontForge with andLinux (Linux only, although Cygwin makes it usable by PC types). I'm still a Photoshopper (going on 14 years now), but I don't spend so much time in it these days and GIMP may do the trick.

So maybe as WinXP becomes less and less viable, I'll be in a situation where I commit wholeheartedly to Linux. Not a dual-boot, but Linux alone. With all these Linux-originated apps in my palette, clearly the transition will be easier now than ever before. (And Textpad has failed to keep up with the times, so that I now rely on it scarcely at all. Not that I like any Linux alternative.)

Maybe with andLinux, I'll finally catch on to the Linux Zeitgeist I never did before. (And, as always, I'll share what happens next.)

_______________

* Little did we know. The iPod's success has made Apple so much more stable that its computers are selling better than ever.

** Oddly enough, I have no problem remembering the announcement date of May 25, 2005, though I couldn't tell you the birthdays of two of my brothers and two of my sisters. Maybe it has more significance for me?

*** One brother's recommendation; although a Linux user, he has evaded long-distance handholding, support and guidance very successfully.

**** For security reasons, we shut this computer down every night.

***** That is, an extension to the browser that displays paged material, doesn't require you to scroll up or down or sideways, reflows when you change the font or font-size, has bookmarks and highlighting, works with any XML and provides tag-level formatting to the user. And provides for animation and video.

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneven (Post 147015)

In fact, I lived in Russia for a few years, and Vista gave me approximately the same feeling ...

I never lived in Russia, but boy does this resonate!

Roger

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Thanks for introducing me to andLinux. That certainly is much easier than cygwin and basing it on Ubuntu is a very logical step for easy migration to linux when you kick the windows habit. I made the jump across to the Mac and have so far had very few regrets.
I have yet to look at any real development work on Maemo as my 770 needs a fair amount of hacking time just to keep it current.
Personally my background is with Amiga OS well before the horrors of DOS and Windows, so I always at least understood how a computer should work. The Psions were also a fine set of PDAs in terms of enough user level hack-ability combined with useful functions and stability.
The main thing that keeps me coming back to my tablet is the community. There is such a good buzz on these forums and it really feels like a pleasant place to be.
I shall look again at setting up a Scratchbox and see what fun I can have.

All the best.
-John

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneven (Post 147015)

I'm running Ubuntu and Suse currently, and Puppy from my laptops.

Hi. Quick question. I have tried Suse10.2 and I'm curious about Ubuntu.
For a general, well informed newb like me(Mac user), do you have a preference between those two?
I have one spare comp and wanted to commit to a Linux Os for it but I am torn. Suse is nice and well presented with both Gnome and KDE but I have had a few problems with it and am curious if Ubuntu is better put together and ready to just 'work'.

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Come on..

Quote:

and I was really happy with TextPad on the PC and couldn't bring myself to the task of mastering emacs or vim or any marvelous Linux text editor.

Use kedit, gedit?

Quote:

and no matter what I tried, I could not set the default to be the Windows boot.

1)
Edit /boot/grub/menu.lst
Change
default 0
to
default 1 (if the second stanza is your windows)

2)
Or use a grub GUI
http://www.qt-apps.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/60391-1.png

That was hard..

Quote:

And eventually I ran into a serious problem on Mepis and was never able to get it resolved

I bet it was a hardware problem.

Quote:

but finding a driver and understanding what I needed to do to make files printable from the Ubuntu

Same here,
Blame the hardware people for doing windows-only driver.. Hardware has to be reverse-engineered by hackers to make it work when companies do not give specifications of their product. Not Linux fault.

I remember the time when I was hunting for drivers for my old printer for windows 98. Never found one, it was only available for windows Me or later..

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

hp is doing great on drivers these days. i have a hp home network printer hooked up over ethernet to my linux box as we speak.

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Same for dells

I think lexmark are a pain.

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

lexmark is a pain even on windows, unless they have stopped shipping their "talking" printer interface now...

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Quote:

Originally Posted by tso (Post 149414)

hp is doing great on drivers these days. i have a hp home network printer hooked up over ethernet to my linux box as we speak.

Hmmm... My wife has an HP box with pre-installed XP Media Center edition. I wanted to install a retail version of XP Pro on it because I could not get rid of all the crapware that HP had also pre-installed.

When I asked HP for copies of their drivers for XP, they refused.

So, this driver problem is not just a Linux problem anymore.

I understand that Vista vs. XP is a driver nightmare too.

My conclusion: never buy HP anything ever again and move to Linux as at least there is a community of developers out there who are trying to make drivers for almost every piece of hardware.

Added later:

Quote:

Originally Posted by free (Post 149426)

Same for dells

I have been looking at configuring a new Dell box for my first Linux machine and I must say that I felt quite comfortable with what I found - lots of information about what I can expect to work under Linux (Ubuntu). The pre-configured Ubuntu boxes were not very interesting, but that is true of the pre-configured XP Dell boxes too.

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

hmm, you didnt check hp.com? they seem to have a lot of drivers for download there...

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Quote:

Originally Posted by tso (Post 149467)

hmm, you didnt check hp.com? they seem to have a lot of drivers for download there...

Yes, and I spoke to HP support and was on their forums. Carly sure f**ked that company over.

I no longer care, the machine works well enough and I spent far too much time on it already. If it (Windows XP/MC) gives any more trouble then I will restore the original software and just sell the system while it is still fairly current. Putting Ubuntu on that box is not an option as my wife needs XP for her work.

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Quote:

Originally Posted by free (Post 149411)

Come on..

Use kedit, gedit?

If you'd ever used TextPad, you'd understand. In its prime, nothing repeat nothing could touch Textpad.

I've seen several articles discussing Linux editors for Textpad users who migrated. All of them say the same thing: there's no equivalent, so live with it.

(Now it's got unicode issues and is useful only in certain tasks for me.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by free (Post 149411)

1)
Edit /boot/grub/menu.lst
Change
default 0
to
default 1 (if the second stanza is your windows)

2)
Or use a grub GUI
http://www.qt-apps.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/60391-1.png

That was hard..

I must be good at painting myself as a shlub. :-)

Of course I trued a Grub GUI, and of course I tried making the change directly.

Whatever prevented these approaches from working, I don't know. I spent hours working on this, fiddling with files and looking for more info on the web. But what should have worked, didn't.

But thanks for taking the time to help straighten me out.

Roger

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

hmm, cant say i have tried textpad, but looking at the screenshots im reminded of kate for kde. dont know about a feature comparison tho as for me kate is overkill for most of my text related stuff, same as openoffice writer is...

Re: Me and Linux, round 4 and a half

Hum as I have the imense pleasure to use Wintendo XP at work, I could download this killer app software.
I fail to see what is so interesting about it. Probably that you are used to it.
I also installed gedit on my laptop and compared. It has at least 3 times more syntax highlighting support. Textpad has no support for python, makefile,sql, tcl, no system file...

Then I downloaded kate. I don't see what textpad has that kate has not. Maybe the price..

Now I'll remove all this crap and go back to vi with ctags using emacs as my OS.

:p

My experience with Linux was fantastic, never had any of these problems. On the other side, when I look at the documentation of microsoft and how their marketing strategy turns into technical choices, it justs makes me sick... I think I've been developping too long on dcom and active-x technologies.. glad I'm out of this

Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages
:)

Regards