Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

I used to take my N800 to our office at work a few times.
Recently an new wireless network appeared there that overpowers our own. I could not get a connection standing 3 feet next to the router. (Any other building is at least 50 ft from ours!!)

Any idea what to do ?
How could I find out where the source of the stronger network is ?
Isn't there any FCC regulation that would apply ? Someone runs their network so strong that we cannot use our own ...

Any ideas appreciated!
*frustrated* johenkel

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Maybe change channels?

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

tried that - no change.

j.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

I would suspect some one of running their own adhoc point from their xp system, it is easy to do if they are not locked out. You might try a command line wifi scan that lists the channels and see what channel the new one is on. <if i can remember that command I will post it>

Edit:
Found command
install "wirelesstools" search here
make sure you are 'root' search above for "becomeroot" above
run as root
airodump-ng wlan0

all info taken from this thread

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Doesn't sound right. Do the scan, more than likely you will find another AP using your SSID is screwing with it ( or your AP has given up / burnt out ).

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

If you have a wireless notebook PC with NetStumbler, you can get a lot of information about nearby wireless networks and relative signal strength. That allows you to experiment with channel, position, orientation etc and watch the results in real time.

Brontide is likely right that the other network couldn't be overpowering yours if you are standing right next to the router. It's an inverse-square law - if you're 2 feet away and the other router is 50 feet away, the relative signal strength is 25^2 = 625:1. The other router would have to be beaming an illegally-boosted signal directly at your position to overcome that.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

What model router are you trying to connect to? Some models have a site survey feature which will show all APs that are in the area.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

The networks have different SSIDs . ( the other one is called 3blindmice )
Router is a linksys - have to get to the office to read the model number.
Will try the commandline next time I am over there with my Nokia.
No other XP machine is having a wireless card, so I don't think someone from us is running its own AP.
Thanks so far!
j.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Actually the FCC says all consumer devices in these classes must accept interference... unfortunately in your case. Your legal recourse is limited to either identifying the source and working out an arrangement with the owner or taking him/her to civil court if you believe your business is adversely affected.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

If it was coming from a XP machine the AP list on the Nokia would show it with the ad-hoc symbol; it has the small dot on top of the icon.

...and yes, the power you can run your AP, or any transmission, is regulated by the government. I guess by the FCC.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Could be also an 2.4GHz wireless (home) phone... I have one that if I use that to make a (landline) call, my tablet and home computer will drop off their WiFi connection and can not connect as long as the phone call is active. (I'm not using that phone any more... but use my ancient 900MHz phone that coexist with my WLAN without any interference...)

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

LOL Mara... my mom's microwave oven kills Dad's gaming wifi. You should hear him and my brothers holler when someone fires it up-- adios, Halo match! :D

(and hello from Helsinki!)

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

How is it over there? We are about to enjoy same weather here than you have over there... :eek:

EDIT: Shouldn't you be at sleep right now? :confused:

(Sorry, off topic...) :o

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

It's cold of course, and light but steady snow.

I'm trying to sleep-- timezone change messes me up. Only 3 hours sleep last night... shooting for 5 tonight. : /

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

With wirelesstools you can also use the command 'iwlist wlan0 scan' which will give just a simple list of what AP's it sees and their channels and ESSID.

EDIT: On the NIT the above only works when you're connected to an AP, unlike with most Linux wi-fi drivers where you can run the scan command before you connect. Still useful on the NIT though, except for the OP I guess as the problem was it wasn't possible to connect in the first place due to the router clashes.

EDIT2: All these scanning- and probing commands/tools/programs have the risk of stopping the wi-fi working altogether, requiring a reboot to get wi-fi working again. At least on OS2007.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Most WAP manufacturers recommend at least 3-channel separation to avoid interference.

I had a similar problem with my very-old Linksys getting over-powered, too, so I updated to a more modern wireless router.

I still had some problems which I traced to a system across the street from my house trying to establish a "network bridge" to my system. I complained about it to the homeowner and the problem went away.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

ok.
to Mara & Texrat: I don't think a phone or microwave will have their own SSID !

I installed wirelesstools but when I run airodump-ng as root it just says "comand not found".
Anybody knows where wirelesstools are installed to so I can go to the directory ?

Haven't tried NetStumbler yet. Have to dust off my old laptop and install it there at home and then bring it to the office. (haven't used it since I got my N800.)

The router is a linksys WRT300N.

johenkel

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

These are the apps in the official wireless tools distribution
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_...nux/Tools.html

* iwconfig manipulate the basic wireless parameters
* iwlist allow to initiate scanning and list frequencies, bit-rates, encryption keys...
* iwspy allow to get per node link quality
* iwpriv allow to manipulate the Wireless Extensions specific to a driver (private)
* ifrename allow to name interfaces based on various static criteria

my usr/bin directory shows:

iwconfig
iwevent
iwgetid
iwlist
iwpriv
iwspy
ifrename

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

True. Mine was a side comment, sorry.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

I think it's time to get a new router. If you can't receive it from 3 ft away, it's just not working. They do fail, with regularity.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

A quick test of the router could be:
Take it home (no need to connect it to any network) and try to connect to it there. Hopefully your home is far enough away from work, so as interference can be ruled out.

If you still can't connect, it is your router.

I hope this helps,

Craig...

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

my guess would be first a channel issue, next the router is failing...

If the channels are different it is not the other router. Now it is very remotely possible the other router is spastic and splatting signals all over the place, but Netstumbler of the the other net utils would show that if you watched the scan for a bit.

My money is on the office's router being screwed up config wise or dying.

I like the idea of isolating the office router and seeing what happens. Heck take it to a local coffee shop, the basement, heck, the bathroom, plug in and see if you can connect. If you can I would suspect something in the office is disrupting the signal.

If other wireless workstations and systems can connect to the router as normal, then the issue is likely not the router nor the allegedly offending "evil router across the street". Could be something changed in the setup for your connection on the tablet.
BTW, I did not read if you tried boosting the Tx power on the tablet to it's max 100mW signal. Can you connect to your home wifi ok?

Last do you manage the network at the office? If not who does and did they change the WPA key? Block you Mac address? Perhaps because company security policy prohibits connecting personal devices to the network? There are so many possibilities here...

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Well, I am not managing our office network. They hired a guy to do that.
He took the router home and found it working ok. He brought it back tried all different channels but no luck.
I do have the right WPA key to connect to our network. We had a couple laptops around for quick work in the meeting rooms but the network just does not work anymore.

I did get wirelesstools working on my N800 and next time I am over at our main office I will try it out. I also thought I could drive up and down the streets and try to triangulate where 3blindmice is coming from. Would be great if there is an app that shows bars for signals - the refresh from the connection manager is just too slow.

johenkel

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

WiFiInfo

http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/wifiinfo/

It has an adjustable refresh

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Thx subaru,
I have that one installed but it only shows the info about a connection that you are logged on to.
So doesn't work for me.
j.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

There are plenty of great apps for determining the location of an AP...just not on os2008. :(

Between netstumbler and wififofum on my pocket pc i can pretty much pinpoint a source.

However, with a simple map and some signal strength surveying you should be able to get close enough to determine a general location...or at least point in the right direction.

NOW, all that being said, the odds of your network being "overpowered" by a neighbor are extremely small. I'm willing to bet that disabling 3blindmice will not solve your problem.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

friend of mine has a netgear dg836g (v1) which has a known design problem which causes it to fail when it gets old... the signal regular just disappears. google to see if yours has developed a known fault. it could also be someone being stupid and setting up a fake access point with same ssid, so if you do a wireless scan check the MAC address. Try changing the ssid too.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

clicking the install gives me 404 not found
:(

--edit--
aha, I guessed his home page and found where his projects are now homed:
http://www.anderenen.de/anderenende/maemo.html

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Votes for the bann hammer!

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

but it works for the Netadmin at home? I am assuming at least one wifi system is XP based, have you installed Netstumbler on it and checked to see what it sees?

I still fall in the camp of this is too important to mess with and it is cheaper to grab a new router then try and track down what could be a very tedious issue.

Another assumption...your netadmin-person has tried a different router? I mean is all of the wireless systems cannot connect to the router then it has to be the router. Since you say all channels have been tried...it is a smoked router or there was a change in the config. I just can't see any other possible issues beyond so sort of broad spectrum interference covering all of the 2.4Ghz channels. But if that was the case then other folks in your area would have the same issue.

It "could" be something funky with the power....but that one is waaay WAG and a very last grasping at straws. Before that level of investigation I would try to reflash the router firmware. A 'stuck bit' can be a PITA.

Here is another suggestion for TS'ing this...turn off all wifi devices and shutdown all wired connections too. The bring up one wifi device and see what happens. If that works add another, and so on...

Otherwise, I would just swap the router for a different one...if the network is down you are losing money and paying someone to troubleshoot the problem who's possibly interested in padding the billable hours then solving the problem.

can't wait to read what the issue ends up being...this is a strange one. And interesting too!

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

one last 'out there sorta thing then off to sleep for me...

I just thought of one really weird problem read about a few years ago...someone had some flaky wifi issues in their office and it turned out to be a bad ballast in the fluorescent light near the router...they only figured it out because one day someone was in the office to do some work and suddenly there was a wifi connection. I can't personally vouch for that being accurate but stranger stuff happens anymore.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

ok.
once again - I don't think a broken ballast has its own SSID :) but thanks.

I went and put NetStumbler on my laptop and ran it at and around our office (drove around in my car). The pcmcia card was a Batsonic CB80211G. I don't think it has as good a reception as my N800 since it only picked up the 3blindmice about 200 yrds north of our building.
I attached a screenshot.
So, I don't know how to interpret the findings. The help in NetStumpler does not have anything written in it. 3blindmice shows up as a Peer not an AP - so what does that mean?
Also in the tree view under SSID/3blindmice there are two pc's. But the other MAC address is shown in the right panel as having SSID YellowLady . Hm?
Well, we thought one really big business might have that strong WiFi. But it turned out they don't.
Also, I could not pick up our own signal standing just two feet away from the router. I switched it off and back on - no change. I do not have the password to login in the router for possible configs. Gotta call the network guy again.
I do get the feeling the router has a problem though. We should just try a brand new one with our old settings and see.

Thanks for all your help.
If I ever find out what the deal is I will post it here.

johenkel

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Never used netstumbler, but I'm guessing 'peer' indicates that it's operating in ad-hoc mode.

That and the vendor being user-defined suggests that it's a renegade PC, though it could be an AP configured in ad-hoc, with spoofed MAC.

I'm not sure what you mean, "only picked up the 3blindmice about 200 yrds north of our building"? You're saying you could not pick it up from in the building, or could not pick it up farther than 200 yds?

If the latter, it's possibly within your building, though I realize you said that no other XP machines have WLANICs. If the former, definitely not. And your router is toast anyhow... so fix that and see if it works. I'm betting the 3blindmice signal's not really strong enough to be an issue.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

yeah, I meant that I could not even pick up a single signal inside our building (incuding ours).
3blindmice only 200 yrds north and only there.

Have to say, I did not try with my N800 - couldn't pry it off my wifes hands this morning. It is almost her's now .... :( shouldn't have put all the games on it....

(Funny, I AM in Benson right now. A district in the city here.)

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

well, of course not silly!! ;) But like I said it was causing interference. I don't recall if it was electrical or a freak 2.4ghz interference...but I know it happened...once...and it is still FUNNY to me.

Yup, 'peer' means Ad-Hoc...same diff...

If you are not seeing any signal in your building with the router on and broadcasting...then yes the wifi side of the router is smoked. Even if there was an issue from the other router on channel 6, you would still see your router. Netstumbler is more like a sniffer in that it simply looks for signals w/o trying to connect. And even with interference you would still see your net.

I do still feel swapping out routers is the best sure fire way to begin. Routers are so cheaply made today they simply do not last on average. Like I mentioned I usually end up replacing one every 2-3 yrs. And I try and keep one backup just in case.

As for the N800's wifi sensitivity...I agree 10000% and feel it's a better device then the POS Intel 3945abg card in my laptop. The N800 finds nets my laptop never sees. Still cannot connect to them but at least it sees them. The Intel card and it's software have never been worth a darn in my experience. Everything from poor sensitivity to awful software with one of the worst memory leaks I have have run into...Intel of course denied it for months.

And I too would love to know what ends up as the issue...really an interesting mess for sure.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Am I the only one that cannot read half of this thread, now?

When an "over-sized" image is attached, the text flows out past the right
edge of the (center) frame, and there's no scrollbar to allow me to see it.


I'm running Firefox 2.0.0.12 on FC8 2.6.23.15 on this machine, but it also
happens on other browsers, as well.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

Perhaps you're the only one using the default forum theme. ;)

Try Classic, it works better. Also slap some usercontent.css on it.

Re: Own WiFi overpowered ... now what ?
 

I'll have what YellowLady is using!