Silverlight on NIT?
 

Um, what?

http://neowin.net/news/main/08/03/04...mobile-devices

Re: Silverlight on NIT?
 

looks like silverlight might be made available for the NITs....

Re: Silverlight on NIT?
 

Yeah, what's more interesting is how they will do it, since there's no Silverlight for Linux yet...? :)

Re: Silverlight on NIT?
 

Microsoft has always said they would create a Silverlight for Linux but haven't produced any actual code yet. The Mono guys wrote Moonlight not long after Silverlight was released. Although the article does seem to be referring to the Microsoft version. Maybe we'll actually see a Linux version from Microsoft in the near future.

Re: Silverlight on NIT?
 

This would be awesome :D

Good news

Re: Silverlight on NIT?
 

Moonlight is written by Miguel de Icaza from Novel. Since Novel and Microsoft have signed that interoperability agreement, Moonlight can probably be considered the official Linux port of Silverlight.

Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

I wonder how they are going to support silverlight 2???? via mono?

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Silverlight 2 will be native cross-platform (Mac OS and Linux included) so it's not difficult to port with official support :) And the fact that Silverlight is actually faster than Flash is pretty encouraging :)

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Frankly, I don't want ANYTHING Micro$haft on my N800.

Regards...

Omega

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Time to create SilverBlock (ala FlashBlock). :-) Only (half) kidding. Looks good.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Does anyone know if offline silverlight apps are support on for instance OSX? If so, it would be a neat way to develop for the NITs

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Ditto.
Once they get their claws in, then they'll sabotage the system in the future while making Windows Mobile run Silverlight better, all the while declaring how it's the Non-M$ OS/Hardware at fault. It's also a tool for them to take down other parts of the OS and make the system crash and unreliable (making Windows Mobile look better).

Forget it. Keep that crap away from me.

Anyone with half a brain will run SCREAMING away from this.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Very true - you just know it'll end up not running as well as on Windows Mobile. Besides, I don't really fancy supporting non-open web technologies like this.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

My observations are that Silverlight (at least 1.0, 2.0 won't be available in the too near future) is slow. I can't say if it is slower than flash since there is no ground for comparison.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

OMG!! Yay!! Wow!! Great!!

Oh. Wait a minute. I forgot. I don't care :)

Flash is bad enough, without encouraging microsoft with all this pointlessness.

"silverlight makes it easy to develop dynamic websites and stuff like that". As an ex-web developer, HTML is a piece of piss, dynamic websites with PHP, Java, .Not etc.. are hardly difficult, and flash is either easy or fairly easy, depending on what you want to do. We don't need silverlight, it's just another way to stop websites working properly.

Raw HTML and PNG is all we need. Down with Flash! Down with animated GIFs! Down with YouTube! Down with AJAX!


sorry for the rant. couldn't help myself

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

I guess I'm going against the grain but I think this is the right direction. I do web design and while flash is easy, it is pretty expensive. Siverlight however can be made with Studio Express for free or MonoDevelop in the future. To me this makes it better than Flash by far. Until a reasonable replacement for Flash comes along(gifs, svg, and javascript are not reasonable) I welcome Silverlight.
That being said, in my opinion, both Flash and Silverlight should be used sparingly in websites(videos, ads, and misc. web applications).

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Flash is a dog. I, for one, welcome our silverlight overlords. As far as "openness" is concerned, Adobe is not exactly the paragon of OSS and openness. I've never seen any third party Flash implementations.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

If it's typical M$ bloatware, then it may never squeeze into the Tablet's fixed RAM size.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

What I really hate are sites built exclusively in Flash, with no HTML version. Especially sites which are nearly all text based and are using flash to make it a bit, well, flashy. bookmarks anyone? back button?

We have a client whose new site is like this, and it adds absolutely nothing to the design. But this is the same client whose email policy requires that all their emails be sent in HTML, with 100k worth of signature images, and a default font of pale-grey. Which I can't read as I use a background window colour of grey instead of white, because it's easier on my eyes when I'm coding for 8+ hours at a time.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

This is one heck of a off and biased comment; but I'll address something a bit less emotional just for the heck of staying on topic to the discussion.

Silverlight, like Flash, like QuickTime, like Shockwave, like Java, etc. :) is a runtime environment. MS built it as a competitor to AIR and Java. The latter is one that suffers from a ton of brokenness and performance issues on EVERY platform.

To date, SL has proven to be faster and less CPU intensive than Flash. And any RIA apps that have been developed with it were done easier than any that have yet to come via AIR.

In terms of Nokia's part in this, its a smart move to get Silverlight into the mix. One, because more and more apps will be connected and therefore the browser and any runtime environments will be the places to battle for developer attention. And two, because by announcing this, they can keep the pressure on Adobe and others to further pay attention to their hoard of mobile devices, and make sure that current implementations of said software are not the last versions.

Expect to see SL driven apps as part of any Qt initative since that port is already something in progress.

As for not wanting MS on your IT none; that is definitely your choice; but its users that also have a hand in making this call; if more users like the SL apps on the tablet, guess which runtime developers will spend the most time in towards making quality apps?

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

But there is still no real FOSS alternative to make websites less boring. I wish things like SVG and XUL would become useful enough to be that.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

As a user, any standard components that will allow me to view a web page as intended on my IT is welcome.

From a developer perspective, it appears Silverlight is a little more optimize than Flash. The footprint is smaller and more developer friendly (free IDE, supports IronPython, IronRuby, C#, Javascript, VB).

Besides, if M$ didn't put out Silverlight, I'm sure someone in this community would port Moonlight (Mono's version of Silverlight) over. :)

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

It would be interesting to see a members' poll on whether people welcome this, umm, development with MS with open arms, suspicion or outright rejection.

Personally I don't trust MS (or their platforms) any further than I can throw (or "extend"?) them.

I wish Nokia would release details of their prorietary NIT hardware so that others like Ubuntu Mobile could assume responsibility of maintaining the (Free) software eco-system also for the Internet Tablets in the future.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Yeah, I'm afraid there are a couple of typos in the article.

By "embrace open innovation" you mean "eliminate open innovation".

By "creating additional choices" you mean "crush existing choices".

Other than that, cool! I'm always delighted to work for Microsoft for free to help them wipe everyone else out so I can pay more for a more restrictive computing experience.

Okay, true confession, I bought an N800 because it was one of the very few Microsoft-free portable devices. With this announcement, I have lost interest in updating to the 810. The reason is that Silverlight is part of a multi-stage plan to take control of the Internet. Stage 1 is to offer you an alternative to Flash. Stage 2 is lock Flash out of major commercial websites by using monopoly leverage (Windows, Office, etc.) against the major commercial websites. Stage 3 is to slow Silverlight development on non-Windows platforms to drive consumers to a Silverlight/Windows combination to crush the new enemies like Nokia, who were allies during Stages 1 and 2.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Ok. Back up. Do Research:
DRDOS
Stacker
Win32 O/S2
IE on the mac
Cross platform Directx
And look at how they got Win Mobile (destroyed a company and stole their phone tech. Can't remember their name.)

They have an agenda in this and it's never benevolent.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Actually, I find ARJWRight's comment to be off and biased. As for it being less emotional, well, who cares? If Cartman stands in the school yard and quietly and emotionlessly advocates Fascism, should he be taken more seriously?

The problem here is that AJRWright mistakes experience for bias. There is overwhelming evidence that Microsoft recruits allies and then destroys them, over and over and over. It is ON and UNBIASED to note this whenever Microsoft wants you to join them.

Microsoft is a serial killer. They will recruit you to help destroy Adobe and then recruit someone else to destroy you after Adobe is dead.

There can be no doubt that Silverlight on a non-Windows Mobile device will begin as a promising platform only to be left without crucial ecommerce features AFTER Flash has been dealt with.

They (Microsofties) even use this kind of language (serial killer, etc) internally. They refer to business as murder in the leaked emails from court cases. They speak of killing everyone not Microsoft and smiling while they do that. All you have to do is read their own words, available at places like groklaw, to understand how they operate. I looked at a Silverlight blog where they spoke of "how efficiently they completed their execution of Adobe".

Watch out because you may be their next ally / victim.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Darn tootin'!

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Soooo, how many third party Flash implementations are there? Oh, wait, none.
It's not 1995, you can drop the stupid "M$", it's not hip anymore.
So what if they destroy Adobe. Screw Adobe. Any company that makes you reboot your damn computer for updating friggin Acrobat Reader deserves to die.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

I have a quick tip for making a website less boring:

Interesting content.

My Drupal blog is 100% FOSS (afaik), and still looks great. No flash or Moonlight or any of that other crap though. The result is that it loads pretty quickly, even though it's behind a ADSL line.

And I'll join the "Just say No to Microsoft Technology" crowd. I'm not sure what Miguel de Icaza is smoking to make supporting Microsoft proprietary standards seem a good idea either.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

let me be the first to say it then...

nokia brought us the WSOD... but now, thanks to M$, you'll also be able to get the BSOD!!

Now, on the one hand anything that forces Adobe to compete on the linux desktop and improve their web-embedded player is a good thing. However, I wouldn't count MS as an ally just 'cos they appear to be doing something nice for once - MS are ruthlessly driven by commercial interests, and if this means that they kill of Adobe's lead in that arena and replace it with their own product, so be it. However, don't rely on MS for long term support afterwards.

For example, MS Office on Mac created a monoculture, but when MS talked about pulling the plug on it, there was nothing to fill the void.

Are we better off that OS2008 no longer has the opera browser? Well, technically, it's arguable, but I'm 100% sure we're better off with the OSS alternative.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Good point- and I would like to take it one step further, why do sites insist on using images? ASCII art is perfectly fine, and if used correctly can be much speedier over dialup. And don't get me started on HDTV.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

I can understand your sentiment, but look at it this way: more support for the tablets. More value.

And enjoy the irony of Microsoft embracing a competing OS and platform. :D

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Great news. So we have flash, and silverlight and possibly java coming to the IT. All three currently proprietary. Um yea so where is the oss solution? Probably about 5 years behind commercial vendors. Kind of like microsoft they will clone the best one :) And competition will make for a better tablet Acrobat 10 which you will um.. have to hack on your old N830 because adobe wont let nokia give it away.

Microsoft's cross platform push is probably mostly for phones not internet tablets. If they can cover phones and x86 tablets/umpcs/minilaptops.... those are market segments. We can only hope we'll be included (ordained and efforted from both Nokia and Microsoft), they actually say :

Microsoft Silverlight availability for Nokia Series 40 devices and Nokia Internet tablets will be confirmed later.

Doesnt sound like this is necessarily certain to me.

Oh and Pre-emptive 'shush' : actually OSS is about 5 years behind on UI, obviously the Unix/Linux OS microsoft has been borrowing from as-needed :)

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

Since when has that been the case? That was true once, but today M$ diminishes value not add to it. There was a time when I was a M$ fanboy but once I started using Linux about 8 years ago I realized just how much M$ has stifled the development of the computer industry as a whole and now I have absolutely ZERO interest at running anything M$ on my tablet!!

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

OSS fanboism is bad thing, guys. Microsoft stifled the developement? Aw come on! Even now newbie user CAN NOT use Linux. No, he can't. And you're talking about 8 years ago! MS brought PC's to your home. And I'm very thankful for that.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

This is about going with the lesser of two evils. The official Flash implementation on Linux is total ****. Adobe could care less. At least with SilverLight, we have a corporation behind it that will listen to the Linux community (Novell).
Wrong, the number is at least two.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

I could honestly care less about this. Silverlight is a failed initiative that Microsoft is trying to force on users through very backhanded means. They couldn't get anyone to use it by choice so now you are seeing some very bald attempts to force it down people's throats. I half expect to see it tagged as a critical update in Windows Update any day now. This has business to business payoff written all over it. It isn't like there are hoards of users clamoring to Nokia for them to implement Silverlight. It disgusts me that of all the bugs and worthwhile features that Nokia could be putting manhours into, we get this instead.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

This is honestly horrible news. Microsoft would like nothing better than to have Silverlight completely replace flash on the web. The one and only reason they're *appearing* to support other platforms than Windows is because they want to get a monopoly on Silverlight as soon as possible. I guarantee you, once they own the market, guess what. Do you really think they're going to keep supporting the Linux and Mac (etc) versions? No, absolutely not. They can kill the alternate versions and people on the other platforms will be unable to use web 3.0 Gmail/YouTube/Facebook/Flick/yourfavoritesite. You'll be forced to use a MS platform if you want to use a mainstream 3.0 web service. This is the One Microsoft Way (their street address, coincedentially), embrace, extend and extinguish the competition.

Re: Microsoft Silverlight Coming to the Internet Tablet
 

No I don't expect Microsoft to support the Linux port. I do, however believe Novell will continue to support the Linux version as they have been.