Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Fellow Canadians,

We are fortunate: the N810 WiMAX Edition is due in Q2/2008, and we have an existing WiMAX network that is nationwide. As pointed out by TheHMan, it should be possible to use this device on the Inukshuk network being resold by Rogers and Bell. It should be as simple as calling them up with the MAC Address of the N810WE, and surfing to your heart's content.

A few questions for discussion:

1. Does anyone have the current WiMAX offering from either Bell or Rogers (you know, the brick of a modem that is supposed to be 'portable'?
2. If so, when you activated it, did you simply give them the MAC address of the modem?
3. Has anyone tried getting more information from Rogers/Bell with respect to the possibilitiy of adding the N810WE to their network?
4. Any insights from more knowledgeable ITT members - Is this a fruitless discussion? Is there something fundamentally wrong with assuming that it could be as simple as being suggested?

Thanks for any comments or insights.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

I'd like more information about this as well, but I don't think it will end up being as simple as we hope.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

My girlfriend has Rogers Portable Internet in montreal, and it's terrible. the modem has to be near a window at all times, it disconnects a lot or becomes really slow in bad weather, and is usually much slower than videotron cable. about once a month, it goes down completely and rogers can't seem to get it back up for a day or so because their system still registers her mac address as connected and their only solution for this is waiting for the lease to expire.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

With the limitation of an absolutely minimal understanding of WiMAX, I've been trying figure that out myself. One of the basic questions I'm trying to answer is whether the network and equipment Rogers is using follows the base 802.16-2004 standard or the 802.16e-2005 addition. In other threads, folks have pointed out that Rogers states on a web page that their subscriber units cannot switch towers without a cold restart, so 802.16-2004 seems likely. I haven't found confirmation of that though.

On the other hand, it appears that Rogers is using Motorola subscriber units, and Motorola indicates in their product literature that transparent hand-off between base stations is supported even at "vehicular speed". Does that mean the subscriber units are 802.16e-2005, but Rogers has done something in their network configuration to break the roaming capability? And if Rogers calls their network "pre-WiMAX", are they really using Expedience and planning a later transition to WiMAX?

I'm going to keep digging as I have time.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Well, I'm not terribly WiMAX knowledgable myself, but I'd expect an N810W would work on 802.16-2004; you'd just have to manually reconnect when it should hand-off. So it'd possibly still work well walking around.

Of course, knowing Nokia, that "manually reconnect" bit won't be easy; some scripting around things would likely be necessary.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

I think ultimately WiMAX will just become another "Carrier protocol" which will require $$ to enjoy, just like a cell phone service. And I doubt it will be easy to get in Canada anyway, at least not anytime soon.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

I did some sleuthing and came up with a Q2 of 2007 transcript of some Rogers meeting of some sort. Thank god for the Internet and public companies.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4306...scripts&page=9

Some of the important things to note:

So what I can gather from this transcript is that they've been spending money on upgrading the network and bringing it to the full "Wimax" standard 802.16e which will allow for roaming. All we need to figure out now is whether or not the existing model will work with the fixed network hardware they have installed. If not, then we might have to wait a year or two before they upgrade the hardware in major urban centers.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Ah, so it does sound as though they've been using Expedience. So, until they move from Expedience to WiMAX, the N810 WiMAX Edition has zero chance of connecting.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Thanks for all the discussion. Primus Canada has a WiMAX trial in Hamilton, and one supposedly in Toronto which uses the 802.16e-2005 standard. So, if they are trialing that, then obviously the Inukshuk network is using the 802.16-2004 standard. Otherwise, what would the point of their trial be?

*Sigh* - I have had little luck getting information on Primus' Toronto trial - they do not seem to know about it, although it has been in the press for a while now.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

WiMax is just not available everywhere right now; at least not as availaible as open unprotected WiFi routers :D

I just don't see the point with all the fanboyism around a WiMax device.

bell and rogers will just try to sell us an expensive an spotty wimax service; as spotty as the previously mentionned "open" wifi routers.


but I'm ok with the WiMax fanboys as long as one of them sell me his used N810 for cheap when he gets his N810WE :cool:

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Came across

Come on N810WE... but hey, between Nokia and Rogers, maybe they could market... i don't know.. anything. This technology deserves better then to be gossiped about on internet forums and digging around on google to find bits of info.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

WiMAX, when it gets deployed (i.e. 3 years from now) will be a lot more available than open APs in some places; particularly rural areas along major highways.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

If it's not available right now, I wouldn't put money on a virtual promise with a vaporous deployement strategy. if Bell or Rogers share holders say NO 6 month from now, then you will be f..... If CRTC tell the industry to put it on hold and stop irradiate people with antennas... to many things can happen including switching to a non-backward-compatible-WiMegaMaxTurboCharged-Twin-cammed protocol along the way.

you can always try to explain how you see the future to the guys who got a new HD-DVD player 4 month ago.... (BetaMax was way better than VHS)

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

The, rather obvious, failure of this analogy here is that WiMAX really doesn't have a competing standard.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

would you buy an hydrogen car right now on promises of nationwide refueling stations in 3 years ?

my point is we are better wait for results before spending our hard earned money on a device and expect corporations to stay true to the WiMax plan FOR THE NEXT 3 YEARS.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

I don't think the General (or anyone else) is suggesting that everyone rush out and purchase N810 WiMAX Edition tablets and wait for WiMAX to arrive someday, maybe. Instead, GA suggested that equating WiMAX to HD DVD (no dash) is flawed. Unlike HD DVD, WiMAX isn't floundering due to the efforts of a competitor. Instead, in Australia, and now in the U.S., it's floundering due to the efforts (or lack thereof) of its own proponents.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

You, for your part, can explain how you see the future:
to the people who bought Blu-ray. Even if you really think LTE does represent the same competition as blu vs. hd, predicting complete failure of one is just as silly as the other. And, unless mad cows run APs, in which case my yankee experiences wouldn't apply, it would take complete failure (which could stop deployment partway on some corridor) to make it anywhere near as spotty as open APs in the situation I mentioned.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

What I was trying to tell is that's it's just way too early to predict the future, way to many things can go wrong including stopped investment related to a recession or some unknown decisions by the new owners of Bell Canada (Teachers).

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

My buddy here at work brought in his Rogers portable internet (which I assume was WiMAX). I won't go into how big and awkward the modem was, but the service was flakey. As mentioned before in this thread, it had to be near a window and tended to drop or work at reduced speed often. That said, I don't know if that was a result of the service itself, or the modem being sub par.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

And 3 years from now is a loooong time in the computing world. By then, I am sure there will have been more editions of the N8xx or whatever it will be by then :D

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Hi All, FYI - I noticed that the N810WE is now on the Canadian TigerDirect site - ready for pre-order at $500 CAD. One would then assume you could use this device in Canada, but the more logical portion of my brain tells me to dream on. Supposedly available at the end of August.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

I had the opportunity to play with an Inukshuk modem for a bit last year.

The network definitely didn't support mobility (802.16e)

My particular testing was putting it in my car, ethernet to a Slug running Linux. I just made a simple UDP app to send updates to a server every couple seconds. I wanted to see how it behaved in a mobile environment.

The result was that the modem had no issues moving between towers... you just get a new IP every time you switch (which means TCP apps would die every switch, but some UDP apps could keep going)

For something like GPS location updates, it would work fine. Connect an 802.11 AP to the modem in the car, and you'd have wifi wherever you have wimax... For most apps, you'd want to use it when the car was stationary, though :-)

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Anyone know if theres a map of the Ontario Wimax network coverage? I'm a bit west of Ottawa and Bell's site says its not available here.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

interesting news on wimax in US:
http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=162200

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

3G (HDSPA) is the competitor, and it is kicking WiMAX's @ss right now. Like VHS, it is technically inferior (WiMAX is more like 3.5G-4G), but is still winning anyway because most of the big carriers are pushing it. Most companies are looking at WiMAX and saying, WiBOTHER when we have 3G? (and we can sell it for EXTORTIONARY rates)

EDIT:

From the Wikipedia Article:

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Be sure that the WiMax in Canada is on 2.5 GHz, which is what the N810 WiMax Ed. expects. Some countries use other frequencies, like 3.5 GHz in Russia and Slovakia.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

at least here in norway, being able to buy a new phone and pop in the same old sim makes hsdpa a winner, imo.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Yay XOHM! This is why I'd rather have WiMax than pay out the *** for 3G.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

and why cant they say the same about wimax?

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

WiMAX and current 3G are definately competitors.

HS*PA is usually owned by current(/big/monopolist) telcos whereas WiMAX is not. Because I don't like these telcos I have a bias towards WiMAX, but if I am realistic current 3G provide a very good coverage (in my country at the very least).

Nation-wide WiMAX frequencies are still sold in EU. It isn't necessarily good if there is a EU-wide frequency sold.

In my country a provider is not allowed to get both a WiMAX and a HS*PA (normal 3G) license. This does open the market for new WiMAX providers, but they must deploy quick or they'll have a hard struggle because of LTE. LTE is faster, and LTE is backwards compatible with current 3G.

If you can get WiMAX coverage in your area I'd say consider a subscription, and compare it with current 3G. Don't write either one off right away. Heck, perhaps WiFi hotspots are sufficient for your needs.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Freedom4 operates a 3.5Ghz Wimax that is being rolled out in the UK (coverage is poor at present with only three towns covered).

I read on the ofcom website that there is, or was, an auction for 2.5Ghz, but there are many licences granted in 3.5Ghz (and some in 28Ghz). I would like to know if there is any point in buying a 2.5Ghz wimax device in the UK, or even Europe, if noone is using it.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/2ghzregsnotice/

More worryingly, it seems that the blocks of spectrum is so wide, we might end up with WiMax devices in Spain not working in the UK or Denmark because each country is not using the same spectrum, which means one would have to buy a seperate device for each country one travels to. Similar to the dualband GSM handsets (900/1800Mhz) not working in the US. One had to buy a tri-band handset for 1,900Mhz. I cannot guarentee my wimax device will work anywhere else :(

This article notes that there are a lot of 3.5Ghz Wimax roll outs across the US.
http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=162200
Why did Nokia put a 2.5Ghz transceiver into the N810, which apart from XOHM, many have decided to use 3.5Ghz?

I hope that I there is something that I have missed that will make this all make sence to me.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Well, siince they're doing the N810W in some sort of partnership with xohm, things might have gotten ugly if it didn't work on xohm...

Also, it's not like everyone else is on 3.5, there are a good many 2.5 and also 2.3 deployments out there; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...WiMAX_networks for info on quite a few. If 3.5 does becomes dominant in sufficiently worthwhile markets, I see no reason they wouldn't produce a 3.5 version.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Chart lists 2.5Ghz in these countries,
USA
Angola
Brazil
New Zealand
Russia
Singapore and Venezuela

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

The WiMax edition was started in 2006 (not a typo), announced at CES 2007, and languished until now when XOHM languished until now. Even if Nokia had the presence of mind to design beyond XOHM (and I don't think they did), at that time, there were no commercially available multiband WiMax rf chips.

Please note than no one has yet been able to get the Wimax version tablet operating on any Wimax network other than XOHM. (I hope this changes soon)

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Mayybe that decision was based on the amount of units,N8XX, that had been sold in the US.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Well, that does mean its not necessarily a 'WiMAX Edition'. If you take Austria, for example, there is nation-wide WiMAX rolled out but for 3.5 GHz. But if it'd work on WiMAX 2.5 GHz it'd be neither a WiMAX nor a Xohm Edition; it'd be a WiMAX 2.5 GHz edition. I suppose some WiMAX chipsets support multiple bands; at least in the HS*PA/UMTS chips this is possible.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Riiight. And any so-called "GSM phone" that doesn't support all of the GSM bands--400 MHz, 450 MHz, 850 MHz, 900 MHz, 1800 MHz, and 1900 MHz--is an impostor. The same for any WiFi gear that doesn't support channels 1 through 14.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

People on this thread need to realize that 3.5GHz WiMAx networks weren't around the US 2 years ago and are still few and far between. The chips may come around eventually (for the major bands), just like the multiband GSM chips did.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

Exactly. The name of the standard doesn't say everything which confuses customers. But it only matters when it bites you.

Re: Canadian Strategy - N810 WiMAX Edition
 

This is true for almost every standard though. Even in cases where providing more explicit information is encouraged by the standards bodies--"USB Hi-Speed" and "32-bit PCI" being examples of this--problems can still occur. For the examples just given, power requirements and the number of inline hubs/bridges can result in non-working configurations.

See also the previous Internet Tablets, which fail to connect to the Internet in those locations that use unsupported WiFi authentication methods. Shockingly, Nokia neglects to disclose the full list of supported authentication methods--and all other detailed specifications--in the name of each tablet.

Well, considering...
...and comes in a box featuring prominent XOHM logos, those potential confused customers should need to go out of their way a bit to become, well, customers. However, should they go to the trouble, they may also be disappointed to find they need a NEMA 1-15R outlet for the charger bundled with the WiMAX Edition tablet, another fact not disclosed by the product name.

You're tilting at windmills.