Windows/Other OS running on Nokia 770
 

Okay, after searching the web for like ever... I have yet to come across a thread or a site with this as its topic. so here's my question:

Can the Nokia be modified to run other operating systems like Windows or Mac?

In my opinion, I believe that it can because there are many add-ons and support programs out there for the nokia 770. For example, bluetooth keyboard, mouse support, USB support (limited). I'm thinking that if we mess around with the OS or install an x86 emulator, it will be possible to run a proprietary operating system.

Please leave any comments, opinions, information, related sites or threads that may be of some assistance. Thank you.

Just a quick thought...

I don't think Windows can run on an ARM based device. Maybe (a big maybe) something like a Windows Mobile or PalmOS emulator, or even the actual OS could work. I am not much of a developer, but I think full Windows is not really possible at all.

why would you want to??

Bochs (an open source emulator) has been already compiled for PSP, and has been shown that even the 32MB of a PSP is enough to boot a simple image (yes-you need an image of a pre-installed OS on a PC) .. a simple image like FreeDOS. But, I do not think Win98-2k would be fast enough coz' emulators slow everything down not to mention that more than 50% of our RAM is occupied right after booting, plus add the emulator and your image...
btw how much mem does win occupy after booting...? so, maybe DOS....

I used to do minimal system programmng long time ago.. An OS is typically designed around a specific family of hardware or processor.

There's a reason for everything. Cost was probably a factor. How much OS and features to implement with given hardware and keep price low.

While I'm not certain on reason for current platform, Linux was probably implemented because of performance and security for the given hardware at the best consumer price.

To paraphrase, why would you want to?

Standard, desktop Windows will not run properly in 64MB of RAM. MacOS X will not run properly in 64MB of RAM. Your 770 has 64MB of RAM, which can not be upgraded.

The CPU in the 770 runs at about 220MHz. Emulators make things slower. There are few current operating systems that can run tolerably on a 220MHz CPU.

Running an emulator? I'm sure it would be possible to emulate Windows 3.1 on your 770, but even then it would be extremely slow and unusable.

The USB and Bluetooth stuff you mentioned is nifty, but has nothing at all to do with running an alternate operating system on the 770.

The only useful thing you'll get out of running some other OS on the 770 is geek bragging rights. If you want that, get NetBSD or OpenBSD to run on it. :)

it should be possible to run amiga and stos under emulators though. There are atleast working on symbian mobiles

Well, being the windows junky I am (sorry, don't mean to diss linux or mac), I just thought it would be cool if it could handle Windows. If I did get it to run Windows, I would try to mess arond with it and stuff, so no particular test or anything like that...

Since Windows 95 has been compiled to run on PSP, I just wanted to know if it was possible...

Oh and btw, the PSP has an ARM processor and can be configured to run Windows so, it should be able to run Windows... Right?..

Technically, there should be no reason why Windows CE 4.X.net could not be easily ported (or even run straightforwardly) on the 770. Its main architecture is not that different from e.g. the Siemens SimPad SL4, which can run WinCE and embedded Linux.

As an owner of both a Wince-d SL4 and a 770, my reaction to the original question is: Why? For the love of Bog, why!?

Trust me...

the PSP does NOT have an arm processor, and win has NOT been ported to it,
but a Win95 image(!) was loaded into a bochs emulator.
what was ported to PSP, is bochs but still, if you've seen that page of that guy
doing it (http://www.hacker.co.il/psp/bochs/)
he says booting more than 10mins(!!!), no keyboard support, etc, etc....

ok, well, let somebody compile bochs for the 770 and we will try the rest out.
http://bochs.sourceforge.net/

btw, maemo dict destroys the app-catalogue on my machine.
does it also on yours? (no more installation possible after installing the dict..)

Oops... Sorry, I misred all the PSP spec reports...

To clarify, the PSP has a MIPS R4000 32-bit core 128bit BUS running anywhere from 1-333MHz Processor.

What I meant about the Windows port was if it was possible to run Windows (95 and up) either straight forward or on some kind of emulator JUST TO SEE IF IT RUNS.

I'm probably not going to use it often unless there it runs at a reasonable speed and usuability.

I'm thinking someone should make a Bochs or quemu (or other emu) to run Windows on the 770 just to see the full extent of the Nokia 770.

NetBSD/OpenBSD would probably make most sense. I gather it would be very easy to get them to boot on the device, but you would have no input/output from the system :-) To make it usable you'd need to write a few drivers, for the display, the network interfaces... This could require some confidential specs from Nokia so it might not be too easy. But who knows...

If you like Windows the best idea is probably to run VNC and control your Windows box remotely. Or you could even run VNC/X remotely to a Linux box that's running Wine or Windows over VMWare ;)

it COULD run it
 

Windows Mobile 2003 already runs on the same TI chip in another handheld (check the TI press release from 2004), and I think it's possible that the Windows Mobile 2005 could work as well. The main thing you would need is the driver for the sound, the driver for the tablet, and the driver for display. mmc and flash support should be already built into the kernel. Also, this TI chip runs Palm OS 5.0 as well, it would take a bit of work porting it, but I don't doubt it would run faster than linux on it. Hell, if it was Palm OS, think of all the developers. Or imagine having Windows Mobile 2005 with IE and that movie player thingy..

I don't know what the hell you're smoking, but there is NO way msmobile could run on the n770 without an emulator of some sort...
(unless of course microsoft wrote it in the first place for nokia)

I'd definetely throw my Sony TH55 (yes, if it *would run* PalmOS... but it don't :-( )

Thanks for your comments...

So as of my understanding now... It's technically possible to run Windows 95 (or whatever) or Mobile or CE on it it's just going to require drivers and such?.. I don't know, the questions are unclear...

For the best bet, I would need some kind of emu to run it. I'll try look around one more time to see if this is possible. For my first project, I'll try look around to find something that can make me control my Windows PC via VNC (thankies to varis). I'll keep you posted on what's happening soon!~

Okay it works!~ Yippie! The VNC client I downloaded works pretty well despite the screen resolution and real-time image scaling. Anyway, like I said, I'm gonna try to find something that can run Windows on this device. If you guys have any info, please HELP!!!

A port of bochs or qemu would be the best bet. A nice demo (like the PSP one), but it's almost certainly going to be entirely useless due to its speed.

VNC or rdesktop to a remote box can give you the feel (and will be faster), but doesn't really "count" for running Windows or whatever due to its reliance on a network connection.

HTH,

Andrew

I agree with Andrew that it is basically just a complete waste of time to try to get win 95 working on 770 (via bochs).

But: Could someone port the 68000 emulator (and along with it: sega megadrive emulator picodrive) http://uosis.mif.vu.lt/~grig2790/Cyclone/
And along with that, the picodrive http://notaz.atspace.com/

It is blazing fast on Nokia phones, so expect that it would perform at 100% speed on 770 (even in full screen).

Ok let's reclarify somethings here:

Windows was NOT ported to the MIPS processor. The image is still very much x86. The emulator was running it so it could switch the x86 code to MIPS.

Another thing: To get something like say Windows Mobile or Palm OS onto a Nokia 770 you would need a licensee agreement from Microsoft or Access which will run you a couple million dollars.

Or you could reverse engineer the entire OS which is illegal and could land you in jail.

In short what you want to do is nearly impossible and/or illegal. I for one think a simple emulator that would run on top of Maemo such as a Palm one (since Palm OS was built for really limited hardware say a 22mhz monochrome screen).

I would also be interested to know if other OSes can run. DOS, for example, in a qemu container? By the way, I recall Win98 running acceptably in 16M of RAM on 220MHz PCs. There are at least a couple of good reasons a person might want to run DOS, emulated or otherwise, on the 770, no? For example, you could run Lotus Agenda 2.0, which you can get off the web. You could run (I imagine) older versions of WordPerfect (yeah, I know, no flames please.) Maybe some DOS games . . .

It's not free, but QNX seems like it would be really cool on the 770. About seven years ago I was able to compile and run the RTF editor Ted for that OS. Ted might be a cool app for the 770, as far as that goes.

Anyone have a clue as to whether qemu would run on the 770?

Someone got dosemu running, slowly - but with no VKB support you'd need a Bluetooth keyboard.

Similarly for my in-progress ArcEm port.

Why not just buy a pocketPC if you want windows?

well, I think that would be very interesting to use other flavors of Linux, like the zaurus, so, I will encourage to anybody looking for something in this direction.

Merry Christmas

why?
 

coz software is limited

Not really. I can run kismet and get wireless access points. I can read books, edit files in vi, watch tv, surf the web, do rss feeds, chat on irc, use it as a pim (although I prefer my day planer for that, which is a personal preference), run nmap to look for open ports on my network, play games (dungeon master and doom), and play music.

so what can windows do that would be better?

What few limitations I a have seen with this device are hardware not software.

it be nice to be able to watch some videos on some web sites and maybe an upgrade the flash plug in.

thats my biggest gripe.

I can do that at home on my linux box. The lack of flash for linux (and thus the 770) is an issue with macromedia / adobe, not the system.

i never mentioned about the system, just the software

Excuse my ignorance here, as I'm new to Linux. Just got the 770 from CompUSA (with the $100 rebate!) and have been enjoying it.

When I go to video.google.com from Opera on the 770, it forwards me to Adobe to install Flash 7.0.69.0 for Linux and Mozilla browser. Would this only work in Minimo?

Are we're not able to install this version because it's not Maemo/770 compatible?

hence my point!

No you can not install it because its not for the 770. Even with that version of flash (if I recall correctly) you still would not be able to play the video. Complaints should be directed to adobe. Let them know you are unsatisfied with their progress so far on their linux support.

But again, the problem isn't software. The people who MAKE the code (Flash) are the ones telling us to pound sand. Could the 770 run it if it was there? Don't know, but since it's not, its a moot point until the software exists.