Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

I recently purchased an N800 to replace my 770. I'm sure there are a number of other users out there that are similar to me, so I thought I would post about my experience for their benefit. My background:

• I'm a long time linux PDA owner (previously Zaurus)
• I pre-ordered a 770 the second it was possible, so am the earliest of early adopters. I proceeded to buy two more during the 770's life cycle. This allowed me to have one "production" unit, and a couple more to really hack around with.
• I think the physical design of the 770 is exceptional. The slide case makes it incredibly durable and buttons are well placed, etc. Nokia set a high bar with this design, and I'm apprehensive about the N800.
• I have trouble going to sleep at night, so the primary use of my IT is browsing for about 2-4 hours each night at lowest light setting. I also sometime chat a bit (AIM via Pigeon) or check/fix some of my servers.
• I am not at all happy with Nokia treating 770 owners as little more than beta hardware testers. Lots of linux OS devices manage to get very fast and stable with only 64MB RAM, so I think it's pretty embarrassing that they never managed a decent release for the 770. (and, yes, I am pleased they released the "hacker" editions, but that's NOT the same as fixing the performance/stability problem).
• Based on above, I wasn't super excited about the idea of throwing $400 more toward Nokia when the N800 and N810 came out.

So that's where I'm coming from; and I bet there's a lot more folks like me out there. Here's my experience:

I ordered the N800 from Dell for $199 + tax (free shipping). I figured I can sell a couple of my 770s and just about cover the cost, so it's time to go for it (feel free to PM if you are looking for a 770). Dell shipped very quickly, and I received my N800 today.

I have to say that I was pretty excited as I opened the box. The N800 is definitely a lot nicer looking/feeling in person than is conveyed by photos. The included slip case should work pretty well. It reminds me of the case that came with my Sony PSP. I just hope I don't lose it.

I popped in the battery and memory card, and connected the charger. At this point, I figured I should be able to safely play with it while the battery charges for the first time.

First power up made me sad. My screen is noticeably darker on the right side than the left, and there are two dark patches along the right side. It's not subtle. After owning 3 770's with gorgeous screens, I'm not thrilled. My hope is that I will get used to this, and won't notice it anymore over time. I wonder if they are all like this, or I just happened to get one where the backlight layer isn't bonded perfectly or whatever.

After boot, I answered the usual questions and set up my WIFI. This unit shipped with OS2007, so it seems like a really fast version of my 770 so far. I'm happy to see that there are none of the long pauses that would interrupt my 770 browsing sessions regularly (probably when swapping RAM to VM on my RSMMC). But this machine was destined for OS2008, so I rebooted for a quick flash (at this point it had been charging for about 3 hours).

I shut down and hooked up my USB cable, then attempted to power up. Nothing. I unplugged the USB and attempted to power up again. Nothing. Now I'm worried that this baby may be dead. I removed/re-inserted the battery; tried a fully charged battery from 770, etc....no dice. Finally I started searching online for others with this problem.

Somehow I had missed this, but it seems like a LOT of people were having this problem. It's caused by some sort of software issue regarding a thermal sensor, and is fixed when RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3 is installed. So now I just needed to figure out how to get it to power up once for a flash. I read in the bug tracker that sticking the unit in the freezer for 1 minute without the battery would allow it to boot once. This worked!

Unfortunately, I wasn't used to the flash procedure with the N800. Having to hold the home button wasn't something I had to do on my 770s. So the first time it powered up after the freeze was a no-go. I tried rebooting, but again it was acting dead. Searching ITT, I found that I needed to hold home....so back in the freezer it went. After the freeze, it powered up again, and I was able to finally flash OS2008!

Whew, that was a few hours of stress, but now I have the device I wanted: A OS2008 tablet that didn't need to run hacker OS. I powered it up and answered the startup questions. I setup my WiFi, and went to a few sites. Wow! Really nice experience. Very responsive and stable feeling. Now to load my bookmarks and desktop picture.

I pulled my 1GB RSMMC from 770 and inserted it into the N800 (using the adapter that came with the 770). I ran backup/restore on the N800 and restored JUST my bookmarks. This worked perfectly, which was a big relief.

I pulled up Digg, Gmail, ITT (of course), and a few forums I frequent. Speed and rendering are great. I noticed a few of the forums that used to throw messages that I was "using an unsupported browser" now do not (yay Mozilla!). I tend to switch in and out of full screen a bit, so I am pretty annoyed with the miniscule switch button between the zoom buttons. What a horrible design after the nice big corner button on the 770. However, the performance is certainly bringing a smile to my face.

I installed Skype and logged in. Very cool to see that working well (although it also worked well on the 770). I popped open my camera to see if that works with Skype. Ooops, no dice. Have to use the Nokia app with the camera (silly). Maybe there is a way around this, but otherwise that camera isn't going to get much use. I do REALLY like the camera design. Being able to turn it both ways and also safely tuck it away (whcin also ensures privacy) is a great design.

Now to decide what to do about AIM. I see that there is a beta update to Nokia's integrated chat solution that supports AIM. In order to use this, I would need to do some hacking. I'll probably install Pigeon first and try it both ways. My tasks for tomorrow will be setting up my favorite apps (or at least the ones that will run on OS2008).

In conclusion: I think this was a wise move. Having an N800 brings me "back into the fold" so to speak. I can run the newest applications, and hack around to my hearts content. I am really enjoying the device again. Hopefully over time the frustration I have been feeling toward Nokia based on 770 issues will be washed away by a much better feeling of satisfaction. At the $200 price point, I think a lot of the remaining die-hard 770 users may be willing to make the jump. I'm looking forward to many years of use from the N800.

Two final notes: Nokia should probably strongly consider trying to get existing inventory flashed to OS2008 or some kind of big warning sticker regarding the power on issue. I think a lot of people who are less technical than I am would simply return the device or send it in for repair. This is a pretty lousy first experience. At least it shouldn't be effecting the N810 owners. Regarding my screen? I'm trying to ignore it as best I can. We'll see how I feel in a week.

http://homepage.mac.com/mkrueger/nok..._backlight.jpg

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

For anybody who finds this thread in the future, the exact steps you need to follow to solve this issue are here:

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...32&postcount=2

It actually has nothing to do with sensors. It's a race issue in the boot timings for the OMAP, it's just that thermal conditions can have an affect on these timings.

The flashing procedure is no different than the 770's, it's just that holding down the Home key makes it a sure thing, rather than a function of lucky timing.

*Pidgin :)

You can actually install the Collabora repository (available from http://www.gronmayer.com/it) and get the telepathy add-ons for rtcomm without going the beta route.

I'm surprised that they haven't updated the packaging to a version 2 like they did with the 770 and OS2006.

Fortunately it seems to improve with age, and it's not really noticeable after a week or so of use. Either way, the screen is a lot brighter and clearer than the 770.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

regarding my backlight issue:

It is a HUGE relief to hear you say that it may improve with age! Thanks very much for posting this. It actually seems to be improving a bit already.

Looking at them side by side, I'd say the 770 is actually slightly sharper. However, the N800 screen is better in so many ways. Color reproduction seems much better (white is white). Also, the touch sensor layer doesn't sparkle on the N800 :-)

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

Strangely enough i never had freeze and boot kind of problems, BUT there is a problem with booting if you shutdown the device while it is charging. After that it takes three long power button pushes to get it running (its three every time). If i shutdown it while not connected to the charger, it boots from the first time. That really doesn't bother me (i seldom reboot), so i didn't upgrade to 51-3.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

That's odd.
All I can see is that when you shut down, the RunLevel is shifted from 2 to 5.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

I meant if you shutdown during charge and then disconnect the device :) Shuts down completely.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

Doh!

Hehe, my bad. I thought you meant shutting down the device with the charger in. I still get that now actually on 51-3 , the device doesn't fully switch off, I can see the backlight glowing a bit so I just take out the battery.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

No, mine shuts down after i disconnect it from the charger (takes some time, maybe 5-10 seconds). It is just difficult to start it after that.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

I'll agree that the 770s physical factor was light year + orders of magnitude better than either the 800 or 810.

I came very close to getting the 770 over the 800 but the weird SD card ended up being the deciding factor.

Don''t know about OS releases before what came with the 800 but the first one seemed to be pretty decent (2007?) but the later releases sure seem to be the flakiest versions of linux I have ever seen :-(.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

This REALLY became apparent me today. I had the N800 in its soft case and in my inside jacket pocket. While getting my 16 month-old out of the car, I grabbed my jacket (apparently upside down). Out flew the N800, sans soft case (I guess it slipped right out). Onto the garage floor it went. I was incredibly lucky in the way it hit the concrete, and only a minor scuff is visible.

I guess I will need to buy an aftermarket case that really "encases" the unit. I always hate doing this, as they almost always interfere with operation or form factor.

I'm amazed Nokia would abandon the elegant aluminum slider case concept; which I believe someone once demo'd by flinging across the room? It sure kept my 770 safe, and I'm already having problems on day 1 with the lack of protection. I'm sure it was simply a cost saving measure. Those of you with small children will understand how easily these things can happen.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

No, that's not it. I believe it simply had to do with changes in form factor—adding the kickstand (given the choice, I'll take the kickstand every time), moving the ports over onto the side from the bottom (very hard to rectify that with a sliding hardcover) and the addition of a barrel webcam.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

This was actually the first post I found when searching for the problem. I appreciate the work you put into documenting this. Unfortunately, the steps didn't work for me. Maybe I didn't wait long enough? (about an hour)

The only thing that worked for me was putting it in the freezer (in a ziplock) for 60 seconds. Each time I did this I could boot it exactly one time. I found the information here:

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2673

I highly recommend anyone who is still experiencing this upgrade to the newest OS2008 firmware. It would be a pain to be stuck somewhere without any way to power on your unit (even though I know most of us don't shut down very often). After the upgrade it works extremely well (and OS2008 is extremely slick).

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

That would be it. The time always varies, but it can frequently take longer than that.

An alternative solution, I suppose, would be to freeze it, take it out of the freezer (but do not turn it on!), get the flasher ready, plug in the USB and then turn it on holding down the Home key.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

I have finally decided on getting myself an 810, but will be really sad to get rid of that cover. There aren't many machines with a well thought out design like that. I guess I will have to be more careful with the 810.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

Yup, exactly. That's what I ended up having to do.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

You will really enjoy your 810, and I think you are making the right choice. Hopefully my posts haven't been too negative, as I'm trying to be as balanced as possible. The overall performance and stability of the N800/810 is a vast improvement, and well worth the cost. If Nokia hadn't spoiled me with the 770 in the first place, this thread would probably mostly be a glowing review ;-)

Sounds like we will both be case shopping in the near future.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

Yes, I have no doubt it will be a better machine. Just you can afford to be a lot more careless with the 770.
I like things with screens to have ways to protect them, like the 770 (or the newtons!)

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

Newtons! :-) I bought the first one of those when it came out, and loved it for a few years. Man, I think the sales receipt was like $1200 for that beast and a couple accessories (crazy). It was SO useful though. It replaced my paper notebooks, contact book, and I used a modem with it for email. I was a consultant, so used it to track all my projects as well. I had a number of clients that basically hired me after they saw me using my Newton in the first meeting (it was pretty Sci-Fi back then). I still have my Newton; but haven't really used it since.

I switched to Palm when the "Palm Pilot" came out. It was a massive step backward for software, but the improvements in portability just killed any hope Newton had.

Re: Thoughts on 770 to N800 Upgrade
 

That is one of my major complaints with my n800, the surplus old glasses case that it comes with is dangerous to the device, if for no other reason you suspect that since Nokia supplied it that it is useful in some form. Total waste in my opinion. Dumped mine out a number of times before I got smart and tossed it. I will have to say that my n800 seems to have faired rather well from the drops it has taken though :-)!

As for cases, good luck. None of them that I have seen or purchased are really good IMO. Every one of them is at best klunky :-(.

Between the case issue and the lack of accessible hotspots and expensive tethering I've just turned mine into an ebook reader and leave it on the charger. If I need something to test out wifi gear I can haul it out for that.

The 800 might be faster and have better SD card capabilities, but the folks I know with 770s take them with them and seem to feel a lot more secure about doing so.

I think I may have made a mistake in getting the 800 over the 770 :-(. I'm really glad that I didn't get the 810 though, all sorts of peripherals that if you don't like them you end up having to buy external BT stuff anyway.

Still happy to have shirtpocket linux even such as it is :-). It could only be worst with wincrap CE :-).