Nokia 770 vs Sharp SL-C760
 

I just purchased a Sharp SL-C760 with 3 networking adapters (56k, wifi, and 10/100) along with an IBM 1GB microdrive. Also included was an extra battery and all the other standard accessories. Full converted to english using one of the linux flavored ROM's. Snagged this deal for $350USD.

Anyone else have experience with these things? How would you compare them to the upcoming Nokia? I know its only 640x480 reso, but it does have a full keyboard.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions... :D

Here are some basic specs for the sharp, just to add for discussion:

Installed Memory 62 MB

Input Method Jog Dial • Keyboard • Touch Screen
Technical Features
Processor Type Intel XScale PXA255

Processor Speed 400 MHz
Display
Screen Resolution 640 x 480

Color Depth 16-bit (64k colors)

Multimedia
Built-in Music Player MP3 Player

Voice Recorder With Voice Recorder

Audio Output Built in Speaker

Dimensions
Width 4.7 in.
Depth 0.9 in.
Height 3.3 in.

Hmm that would be a good writeup. The Sharp is a killer device. I really wanted the one with the built in hard drive.

A few questions --

How big is the screen physically? I'm guessing around 4 inches, but could you specify?

How much does it weigh?

WiFi is available through an adapter? Is that internal or what? No Bluetooth? Does it have USB?

Did you get a new one? Used? You say it was a deal -- what's the list price? I saw that it came out originally in 2003 -- is it still being marketed?

Just curious. Wanting to understand the relative merits of the two devices too.

RogerS I actually just won it last night, so I don't even have it yet. Judging by the pics and the seller it is in excellent condition. I've been researching these for a while (actually how I came across the Nokia) and from what I've seen the most currently marketed to the c760 is the c3100 which comes with a builtin 4GB hardrive. Those are going for $700+USD on ebay and can be purchased (imported) from http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/index.shtml for 899!! From what I've read they are about half a pound in weight.

As far as network connectivity, this model dosn't have any built in options. The adapters I got are all compact flash. The unit has CF and SD. Also, it does have USB to connect up to the computer. The IBM Microdrive is 1GB in storage and has a 3400RPM speed. The seller also included an extra battery which I'm sure will come in handy.

compact flash wifi should be not as good as the built in wifi in nokia i think (it can be compared maybe...)

We can't compare an used and a new product i think, if CL-760 still for sale, you should compare the price with it...

it's a 3.7" screen and nokia have a 4.13"

nokia is not a product made for store data but if you want to store data, there is bluetooth or usb auto-alimented external disk (with a larger capacity...)

An other point is maemo on nokia, i think the integration is better with maemo than the integration of zaurus...

The zaurus community does have a rather matured package base. One of the main sites I found for the community drive OS is http://www.openzaurus.org/wordpress/

And here, a site with packages to install:
http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/

Once I get the unit, I will take some detailed photos.

More Zaurus C760 info...
 

I posted some size comparisons and other info here:

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...24&postcount=8

What it's like to browse on a Zaurus C760
 

Here is a pic I took of what browsing is like on the C760...I spend quite a few hours doing this :-)

http://www.markandjo.com/markblog/wp...760_Tablet.jpg

Mine will arrive on thursday. What is the speed like surfing via bluetooth connection on your phone?

Does Opera browser support javavm
 

Hallo,

does the Zaurus browser support

1. secure access
2. open up a new second window
3. a javavm to execute applet for graphical user interfaces


thanks.

The specs/capabilities of this device made it sound very appealing. But on the basis of the screen alone as shown in your photo, I would choose the Nokia 770 over the Sharp C760. That looks like a three- or four-year-old screen technology (older? maybe slightly newer? I'm not pretending to be an expert here).

The 770 has a pixel-density of 225 pixels per inch, about FIVE times that of my laptop LCD. It's the first device with this kind of density. In other words, Nokia thinks this is the most important feature of the device. Where Sharp put its money in the keyboard and the hard disk, Nokia made different choices.

I'm not interested any more. The screen is what makes it.

-- Roger

Wow, I got my c760 in and that previous poster's pictures do NOT do it justice. This screen is VERY clear, crisp, and bright.

Yes it has Opera on it so I can do secure websites. yes I can multi task and run multiple apps. Basically a KDE desktop. And I don't have an answer for your 3rd question. :D

Thanks NRGTEK. The last question is very important, because the browser - java universe is available through the javavm.
You can make thousands of individuals around the world happy if you do small test and report the result. Here the steps:

1. access http://fxtrade.oanda.com/resources/
2. On the left side of the oanda fxtrade site you can oprn a game account. there is no fee or obligations - it is free. OAND is by the way a respected company.
3. after activating the game account through email please login.
4. access http://fxtrade.oanda.com/resources/ again and try to login.
A second browser window is opened. Message "applet loading" and the trading page appears.

If it works many people will be very happy and the browser java universe for PDAs and intelligent phone is open - it is locked currently locked by Microsoft.

If somebody with a N770 test unit reads this - please do the same test and report.

Thanks in advance ....subsecond

you do not need a n770 to test but if you have a java applet, the n770 can't use it because there is no javavm...

100% correct. I went ahead and tried to anyways just to "see" and can verify it did not work. It stays at the Loading FXGame Platform and goes nowhere since there is no javavm.

Thanks for the test.

It is sad that the IT and Phone Industry with all the million of bright people is not able to make this working. It is not capabilities but monopolistic practices of the brilliant names.

So we wait again. There is of course hope with the shrinking notebook size that we have systems for people on the move.

Thanks again for testers and shame on the developers.

...subsecond

A question to the Nokia management:

How can you call a device, which cannot access an essential part of the internet - INTERNET TABLET?

May be thats a case for the consumer protection authorities!

...subsecond

javavm is not a small virtual machine, you need disk space to use it.
Maybe someone will add javavm after but remember you need disk space and there is not a lot on n770 (but you can add disk space with RS-MMC...)

hey you guys think the nokia 770 is practical enough for notetaking in class?

I don't think so. I tried using a palm to take notes and I just couldn't do it. For math classes you need to draw a lot of formulas and the screen is just too small on a pda. Now if your class is history and you just write down dates and stuff then a bluetooth keyboard will make taking notes a very possible thing.

I think I will eventually get a tablet pc which is the perfect device to take notes. It just costs an arm and a leg to get one.

Of all the handhelds I have ever used, only one could successfully be used for note-taking, and that one was extremely good at it as well. I'm talking about the Newton MessagePad 2100. Its HWR is excellent (99%+ recognition) and the ease with which one can switch between text, ink, shapes and sketch is amazing. Hardly a day goes by that I don't curse Steve Jobs for canning the platform.

No offense, but your information is really far off :-) As I now own both devices, I can give some direct comparisons.

The pixel-density is virtually identical between the two devices. The Sharp screen is 640x480 vs. 800x480 on the Nokia. The actual height measurement of the screen is almost identical, so the 480 pixels are at almost the same dpi. The Nokia screen is simply 160 pixels wider.

Sharp = 2" 2/8 tall
Nokia = 2" 1/8 tall

As far as screen technology, the Sharp uses it's own CG technology. Sharp was really out ahead when it released this screen. As a comparision today, I'd say neither screen is clearly a winner. The Nokia has a kind of "sparkly" nature to all whites. This might mean the screen is somewhat transflective? I need to test in sunlight soon. Both have similar levels of max brightness (kind of impressive since the backlight on my Sharp is two years old). The Sharp screen has very solid whites, and all colors are extremely vivid. The Sharp screen has a very slight "screen door effect" type thing going on when at certain angles. The Nokia is less picky about viewing angle. Both are extremely great screens (and I am VERY picky).

I'm sorry my previous picure was so bad. I just took several more with side-by-sides on the two devices. I will link shortly.

I love my new Nokia, but I also love my Sharp. Both have advantages.

Here are the pictures. I did the best I could without a tripod, and will try to get some better ones later. Note that the Sharp is about 1/3" closer to the lense because of the way the hinge works, so its screen appears slightly bigger than it really is. When I first looked at the devices, I thought the screens were the exact same height....a ruler revealed that there was a 1/8" difference in height.
Screen Comparison Picture
Zoom on Screens Picture (LARGE!)
Size Comparison Picture
Thickness Comparison Picture

Well, you are the one in a position to make a comparison. I know you can't appreciate the 770's screen unless you see it in person; I'll assume the same for the Sharp.

Thanks for correcting the record with the new photos. I could hardly believe the first picture was of the same device.

I'm inclined to believe the extra 160 pixels is worth it, especially after surfing for three weeks and complaining about sites that wouldn't accommodate my width. Scrolling sideways is annoying. It may be something you get accustomed too, or maybe sites reflow to the 640 width.

I'm sure that I could find ways I'd use a keyboard and hard drive, but I'm happy enough without them. I like Internet Tablet 2005, but I can't really compare the OS or software either.

So if you like your Sharp, great. I'd rather spend the $350 on a new device than a used $800 device, but it's clearly got real value. Besides, how would I explain this new "Nokia" tattoo I just got if I carried a Sharp? :)

Again, no offense, but that pricing is way off. The Zaurus currently sells for $368 including shipping from Japan. The current model that identical to the C-760 is the C-1000 (they changed the color and keyboard a tiny bit). Adding Wifi and a memory card will make it about $468.

I really do love my Nokia 770, and it is a truely amazing device. But some folks will like the integrated keyboard for note-taking and such, or the faster processor, so the Zaurus has it's uses. Both are awesome devices. It's REALLY great to finally have choice in the Open Source PDA world! I posted a detailed comparison chart on my blog here:

Nokia 770 vs. Sharp C-760 Comparison Chart

Actually, at this point, I prefer the Sharp for browsing. I never scroll sideways, because that truely does suck :-) Opera has an optimized view that makes it so you don't need to scroll. This works on 95% of the sites I use. There are two main reasons the Zaurus has a slight edge on browsing (for now):

1) Opera Browser 8 really eats RAM, and I find I need to reboot the 770 pretty regularly to have any kind of performance. It will sometimes just lock up too. This is all a RAM optimization issue, and I guarantee it will get fixed at some point. I'm trying to figure out how to repartition the internal flash and add a swap space....or swap to MMC to try to temporarily fix this issue. Opera 7.25 on the Zaurus is very fast and stable, but no flash plugin.
2) Frankly, people read text best in narrow columns. It's just the way the human eye tracks. The Zaurus allows you to rotate Opera on demand, and web browsing generally is better in portrait mode. You can rotate to landscape for pages that need it, and then the Nokia's extra 160 pixels does help. But, I really haven't found any pages that were a problem on the Zaurus. I should try to post some pictures that illustrate this.

On the other hand, browsing on the 770 has a bit more coolness factor, as you get flash and all :-) I'm trying to spend a few hours browsing on it each day.

2 cents
 

I agree with Remote User, and want to thank him for his donations to the Zaurus community. A lot of us have benefitted from the development efforts at pdaXrom. I've also contributed over the years to pdaXrom and Cacko, though nowhere near Remote User's levels.

It's great to have great hardware, but in the end, the key to success is a great company backing it up, and in Open Source - a great community. Sharp has angered most of it's developers and users by not being supportive, pulling out of markets, and many other mistakes. I hope that Nokia has learned from Sharp's mistakes.

I think Nokia is off on somewhat shaky footing with this launch by not delivering on multiple promised ship dates (in the US), sending products to dealers before early orderers, and other somewhat shady tactics (see the recent email sent out to buyers). Overall, I think the Nokia 770 was done right in so many ways. It's obvious the developers at Nokia get it, and have done an AMAZING job over the last 4 years. Let's hope corporate Nokia gets it, fixes these early bumps, and brings us to the holy grail you talk about.

I'm just really happy we now have a choice, and look forward to what comes next.

I would also like to add my input since I am a previous Zaurus owner, (both a CL-5500 and a SL-C700) and concidered the SL-C1000 prior to purchasing the 770.

Even without considering the CompUSA cost+ deal, the 770 is a much better value.

Dynamism wanted to sell me an _Open Box_ SL-C1000 for well over $100 more than I paid for the 770.

Given the larger screen, built-in WiFi and Bluetooth, there was no way I could find the Zaurus worth it. Carrying around a "purse" full of WiFi and bt cards has no appeal to me.

While I have never played with a SL-C1000, I can tell you that surfing the web on my SL-C700 was much worse than on the 770. Those that complain about memory issues on the 770 should try a SL-C7x0 for a while. Relatively speaking, the 770 is a pleasure to use.

Also, 160 pixels may not seem like much, but especially when you consider watching a 16:9 movie, it makes a huge difference. A letterboxed movie was pretty small on the Zaurus. It payed movies well (See kino), but it was not really an adequate media player to watch a full-length movie on. I definately could watch a full length movie on my 770.

As others have said, the screen quality on the Zaurus was fantastic for its time, but especially given the larger size, I find the 770 better. I also like the Tablet form factor better than the Clamshell-twist-pda form factor of the Zaurus.

I really liked Qtopia on the Z. I never tried an X based distro. The application availability was the one thing the Zaurus had (has) on it's side.

I think Nokia is basically doing everything right with Maemo. I predict the 770 library will grow quickly, and as long as Nokia sticks to the patforum, I predict it will surpass the Zaurus library within a very short time. I already have replacements for almost everything I had on my Zaurus on my 770.

OK, you indicate you almost have replacements for everything.... What are they? What applications did you have and are you using now in their place on the 770?

Thanks,

Tony

Well, Gee.. I don't remember everything I had on my Z. Also, I now have a series 60 phone, and I have some apps on it. (I had a r520m then, which I used for BT, but could not install apps on.)

Here's what I can remember.

App:Zaurus:770 (Comments)

Solitiare:Included QPE game:MaemoDrac (Most important listed first :) )

Scientific Calculator:NeoCalc:None Yet (jcalc on my phone.)

Movie Player:Kino2:Included Player

Other arcade games:Varied:None yet (MAME on my phone.)

PDF reader:QPDF:Included Reader

PIM Stuff:Included:I have this on my phone. Have not tried the GPE PIM suite.

Office Apps:Hancom Office (included):Abiword. (No replacement for Hancom Sheet yet - Gnumeric port in work. I have not yet seen a handheld machine that will really open powerpoint files. I encourage people to PDF them if they want me to look at them.)

eBook Reader:QTReader:Have Not installed FBreader yet (Included Browser used instead - See Below.)

Basic Unix:Included:X-term,IP utils

SSH:OpenSSH Included on Cacko: Drop Bear Client (Client only. I don't recall ever running the server on the Z either.)

Kismet:Kismet:None Yet. (I don't sniff peoples packets, just scan and get info about available access points, so the 770 built-in capability is fine.)

I don't think I have ever actually read an ebook that was not available as a PDF. I do however, use some large (1 <MEG< 5) text files at work that I need to be able to search quickly. On the Z these would crash or slow the web browser or Hancom Word. I used QTreader on the Z because it would handle these files. These files seem to open fine in the 770 Browser, and searching them is the fastest I have ever seen on a handheld.

Some screenshots running various images

http://www.pdaxrom.org/screenshots.php?menuid=2
http://opie.handhelds.org/gallery/vi...albumName=c7x0

I think you make a lot of good points, but this one isn't really accurate. The particular Zaurus you own (C700) only has 32MB RAM. Every other model in the line (C750, C760, C780, C1000, C3000, C3100) has 64MB RAM. The reason your Zaurus runs out of memory is because it's kind of the lemon of the bunch (sorry).

I recently launched 6 different apps while browsing on my C760. The unit was still very responsive and my memory monitor stayed in the green throughout my browsing session. I have never actually experienced any kind of memory error on my Zaurus.

So, saying memory is a worse problem on a "SL-C7x0" than the Nokia 770 isn't really accurate. It IS a big problem on the SL-C700 in particular, though that unit hasn't been sold for many years.

OK. I stand corrected. That was from memory. Yes, the 32M was a big limiting factor, and having twice that should allieviate much of the problems the SL-C700 had.

Don't worry about the "lemon" statement. I sold the Z in February 05.

I still maintain that the Nokia 770 is a much better deal than any Zaurus available New today. (Super deals on eBay excepted). Without Wifi and Bluetooth built-in, the Z is just not competative in the high-end PDA/handheld market.

I know that the SL-6000 has Wifi, so as I am typing this, I tired to find a price for comparison, but I cannot even find anyone selling it, so I still maintian that no Zaurus is competative with the 770.

Yeah, the 6000 is discontinued. For a price comparison, you would look at the SL-C1000+wifi card:

$381 - http://www.pricejapan.com/PriceJapan_com.htm
or
$406 - http://conics.net/shp/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/index.html

Then you would need to add the WiFi option in the CF slot for another $50 to $100.

The Zaurus ends up being a bit more expensive, but you do get the built-in keyboard and 400mhz processor. The 770 has the nicer screen and form factor. It all depends on your needs.

I really do think the Nokia is an excellent device....and I'm writing this post from mine :-)

Though the Z was pricey, the keyboard made it very attractive and it was a gorgeus gadget! Built in BT and Wifi would have made it an ideal device...oh well