Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Is there a way I can send commands from a VB.NET app to configure a N800 to load a webpage on startup, in fullscreen mode, and adjust the splash screen startup images, and upload files to the device?

I read through this thread: http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ad.php?t=17168 - so is there a way to run those commands from a VB.NET app?

The reason I ask, is that I am writing a web app aimed at the N800/N810 for home automation, and being able to adjust the devices startup settings, transfer files to the device, etc would be a really nice feature to add to my windows app (which designs the GUI for the home automation interface). Much prefer this than have to tell my clients to do all those commands on the device (many, including myself, are not linux-literate)

I have been able to upload files via SFTP, and run commands via SSH to an iPhone from a vb.net app, so I would assume it would be a similar process?

Thanks!

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Anybody? Even a little push in the right direction would be very helpful.

Thanks.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Bah, now my post disappeared - tabbed browsing is dangerous when you are not quite awake.

Anyway, here's a short summary of what I wrote.

The file for startup programs is called .xinitrc and should be found in the users homedir. If not, just create it. Google for the syntax of this file, but basically it is just a list of commands to run at startup of the GUI, one per line. Similarly you will want to take a look at the .xsession file. The browser is firefox 3, so opening a webpage on startup is done by starting it with the url as a parameter - check firefox docs for syntax if any.

As for transfering files, just make sure the tablet is running an ssh server and use SFTP to it. Either use OpenSSHd or DropBear - both available from the Garage.

The startup settings... I'm not quite sure I know what you mean by this. The description is a bit too generic. But my guess is that whatever you want, you can do by editing/uploading the config files to the tablet by SSH/SFTP.

Splash image can be changed. Search this forum to find out how. I'm sure that the description by other people is much better than I can do.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Thanks for the reply Kny.

Your description of the startup file sounds a lot simpler than what was mentioned in the thread I linked to in my original post.

I have been able to SFTP into an iPhone from VB.NET before, so I'm pretty sure the file transfer stuff should be simple enough, once I have OpenSSH and becomeroot setup.

I'll look into the .xinitrc file syntax and post any questions here if I get stuck.

As for the actual settings I want to adjust, here is a quick list:
1. Launch Firefox on startup, without seeing any other GUI (desktop, menu) before hand.
2. Force firefox into fullscreen mode when launched. So the boot sequence would be splash screen > firefox fullscreen, nothing in between (other than maybe a blank screen at worst case).
3. Change the startup screen images (I have found information on that, so should be right).

Number 2 is the most important, so any pointers to acheive that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!

Edit: Just so you know, I dont have a N800/N810 yet, but I am getting one next week hopefully so just want to be ready for when it arrives.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Number 2 is also the hardest one - I don't think you can get around showing the user interface before firefox loads using a standard N800 setup.

However, you could replace the N800 window manager with something like fluxbox/openbox, that has no items on the screen if you don't put them there. I am not experienced in doing this, but you should talk to PenguinBait (from this forum), as he has done exactly this procedure to get KDE running on the tablet. There is a thread somewhere in which he describes exactly what is necessary. You should do exactly the same, only implementing fluxbox/openbox in stead of KDE. Alternatively, maybe you can avoid loading the menu and applets on a standard N800 setup, but I think this is quite hard.

There may be a better solution than *box as a windowmanager, as the N800 is very Gnome-based (mostly because of its reliance on the virtual keyboard, which only works in Gnome). So if number 2 is essential, you need to go trawling the net for a minimal Gnome windowmanager, that you can compile for the N800 (don't fear this step, as most linux gnome programs simply compile without changes if you use the scratchbox). Maybe even the builtin windowmanager in Maemo can be adapted, but as I said, my experience is limited. The alternative is *box, but then you need to supply a virtual keyboard. Of course this might even be simple, if it is just for a web-application - I see no reason, the virtual keyboard could not just be a part of your webapplication rather than the device setup.

Of course, the really simple solution is to use an N810, which has a hardware keyboard, or bundle the N800 with a BT keyboard.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Maybe LOLcode is your best bet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOLCODE

http://icanhascheezburger.files.word.../lolcode_r.jpg

And now: .NET compatible! http://blog.notdot.net/archives/32-L...-the-CLR!.html

:D

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

texrat: yeah maybe...

Kny: That all sounds nice and difficult. I'll keep it in mind tho.
Turning the device into a dedicated home automation device (removing all other functionality thats not needed, like media player, etc) might be a path worth looking at.

Has anyone created a maemo app that is simply a web page, with no menus or anything?
I might have to send a message to PenguinBait, and hunt down his forum posts for some inspiration.

Thanks.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Lol Texrat,

That has got to be the coolest invention since canned soda ;-)

SenileBob: What you need is not a Maemo app. No simple application can make the rest of the system not start. An application does a) not have the privileges to stop many of the system services you see (like the xserver, methinks) and b) is only started after the initial GUI is presented, which is not acceptable for a full implementation of your criterion number 2.

What you need is a distribution modification, in which you basically remove everything but the xserver, gnome libs and firefox.

Alternatively, as I mentioned, you just replace the xinitrc and/or xsession files and the window manager.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Why worry about a dedicated device? Just leave the device as-is and provide the software as an add-on. You get the functionality of a full maemo device, plus a home-automation remote!

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

The reason for dedicated device is quite a good one: Customer service.
Home automation installers will stay well clear of devices that customers have the ability to customise. This only leads to headaches with devices not functioning correctly and requiring expensive visits to fix the problems.

Ofcourse, they will be free to offer the web interface as an addon option, but the option to turn the N800 into a dedicated home automation controller is a huge attraction to the device, amongst its astronishingly low price-point when compared to the prices of current dedicated proprietary automation touch screens.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Fair enough, I suppose, but I'm not really convinced. Most of what a user would do wouldn't do anything to the rest the control software, and if your software is so fragile that even little mess-ups would cause the whole system to stop functioning correctly, then it really sounds like you need better software. :\

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

I think SenileBobs way of thinking is probably correct. We might not like the idea of turning the N800 into a non-customizable device, but this is definitely the thinking of much of the industry. They believe that customization leads to unpredictable behaviour (which honestly, is true enough, when seen from their point of view), and believe that while they could just blame the customer by voiding the warranty, this would just bring lots of bad PR (which is definitely true). This is definitely the approach of Sonos, PVRs, DVD players and most cellphones.

I think, maybe, an intermediate solution is to leave it customizable and believe enough in the platform, that people will not be able to break the flasher. In that way you can just supply a flasher image that people can use when they break the software you put into the system.

For those of us that know not to touch anything we can't fix if it breaks, a fully customizable device is great. For the average consumer, you can either limit their ability to meddle or suffer the bad PR when they break it and claim it's your fault for not making stable software. This is much more of a problem in the US where you might even be sued for it.

One more thing to worry about is that when you sell a device with software on it, you had better control all of it in some way. When using an N800 as a platform, you have the additional complication of open source software, that gets upgraded outside of your control(not necessary a bad thing, but definitely something to be taken into account). You have to support the thing, even if it is someone else's repository that crashes or supplies a bad library. For this, the N800's track record is not great. The lack of a stable, controlled distribution network is also one of the reasons that the N800 is not quite mainstream yet. Hopefully this will be much better now, that we're closer to the Debian codebase.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Kny hit it right on the head.

Its not our software that is the issue, its other software which might cause the unit to become non-functional, or the end-user doing something (due to them being able to) that kills the unit. A locked down unit is the holy grail when it comes down to home automation. Afterall, noone wants to pay thousands and thousands of dollars for a system and then have to use the light switches or TV remotes when the touch devices stops working.

So if anyone can lend a hand in my direction, for a locked down unit, please send me a PM. I know there are some really smart guys out there that could help, just having trouble finding any.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

First result in a Google search for N800 customizing.
http://www.tweako.com/customizing_th..._your_purposes
As for trying to do everything with VB.NET, you're likely on your own. I think few people on these forums even use VB.NET at all, and those who do probably wouldn't do this project in it.

(I would think a more sane approach would be to manually build a universal customized setup. Then only the particular adaptations for a given setup are done by, e.g., using VB.NET to write a shell script, which replaces a dummy script in the universal setup.)

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

The original idea of using VB.NET to do this was mainly just to change the startup application and upload a few splash screen images. This seemed quite reasonable with a bit of VB.NET wizardry. Creating a fully customized package has since come up as a better option, so I will be reading through that link in great detail, thanks for that! I didn't bother googling it because I knew it was based on Linux and from conversations I'd had with Maemo developers it was going to be a tough ask to block other functionality on the device. Now I know better.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Here's my prediction, bob:

Assuming you get the dedicated functionality you want (I have no doubts), and lock out regular N800 functionality, you're going to end up with some users who will eventually realize they have an N800 on their hands and start demanding the missing functionality. The advanced ones will go so far as to figure out how to get it back AND support your home automation use (:D).

You may want to minimize that by customizing the faceplates. Many here have done that, with faceplates I used to be able to provide (all out though, sorry). Just remove the N800 faceplate, primer it, and paint over it with some neutral color. Heck, you may want to even look into inking some sort of logo of your own there.

Anyway, something to keep in mind.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Then only those who know enough to make things work will identify it as an N800...
Works nicely.

BTW, be aware, of course, that that link refers to an old OS, so things may have changed; I expect it'll help, though.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Of note, this is not the first time somebody has put together a dedicated home-automation remote using an N800. There's another company, in Australia if I recall correctly, that is selling them for around $3500. . . .

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

GA: Thats some interesting news. I've had a google search for the company you mention, but am unable to find them. Perhaps I should try a search on these forums?

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Somebody from the company was trolling #maemo a while back (maybe 6 months ago) looking for information. Might try searching those logs. Don't recall any specifics, though.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

I found the logs (http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/) but is there a searchable interface somewhere for this? Really can't be bothered searching through day by day to find it. Not that its really important, but would be good if I could see what they have done I guess (I'm in Australia too).

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Erm, the giant search box in the upper right hand corner? Or Google, I suppose

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

HAHAHA, man am I blind....

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

These are the guys who have done something similar with an N800:
http://elanhomesystems.com/control.asp

They're not in Australia though

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

I couldnt find anything on a home automation app, just the Silica wifi security thing, for $3500. Is that what you were referring to?

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

That's the one, can't imagine why I'd think they were in Australia. :D

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

vbrilon: thats more like it. Now who wants to help me make a custom package for the N800 that runs a simple web browser in fullscreen (with flash support), and allows configuration of wifi connections? :)

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

Probably depends greatly on how much you're paying them... ;)

Someone was working on a non-profit thing (for an old folks' home, maybe?) with similar requirements to that. I'd initially thought you wanted a lot more customizing than that.

Here's the thread.

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

I guess that depends on who you want to pay to do it, doesn't it? ;)

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

I'm open to pay people, and I'd prefer someone from this community, rather than a generic linux developer, so PM me if you have experience with this sort of stuff and we can take it from there.

Benson: I had already noted that thread in the original post :) I dont want more customization available to the end user, just remove everything other than the web browser and wifi config, possibly other settings (havent even used an N800 yet!)

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

:o But that was a long time ago....

Wouldn't setting the browser always on top suffice?

Well, I suppose then the browser could always crash / be exited...

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

If I'm going to do this, I might as well do it right. The basics as pointed out in my first post would work, but as you said, there are problems that could arise. A fully stripped install would reduce the number of problems dramatically, and produce a much nicer product overall. Should I start a new post asking for paid help? Or is that frowned upon in these forums?

Re: Configure N800 via VB.NET app
 

A matter of perspective (but, admittedly, I'm not really the target market). :p Personally, a remote that also lets me ssh into my server, play solitaire and read ebooks is way more appealing than a remote that's just a remote. ;)

Would it totally kill your market to also provide a software-only option that doesn't completely take over the device? :D

No, not frowned upon, but they've typically been rather unproductive in the past. The demographic here is largely regular users, who have no skills, or the hobby-hacker, who either don't have the skills you're after or are already 'employed' elsewhere (students, programmers, etc). The people-with-skills-that-are-unemployed crowd don't tend to make as much of an appearance.

There's no harm in trying, though. ;)