Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

Quite a few people have heard of Fon, the service where you get a special Fonera router which you can open to others, and in exchange you can use their Foneras wherever you are.

Well, in Finland one phone network operator has set up a similar service called Wippies, where you get a free Wippies router which you open to others in exchange for access to other Wippies routers. I've just done a story about it on a site I work for:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...k_operator.php

At the moment it's only available in Finland, Sweden, Denmark and Estonia, but it's been expanding steadily (it was originally Finland-only) and the Wippies map shows one or two routers in France, Spain and elsewhere which might indicate further expansion areas.

The main reason I was mention this though is the fact it's being run and paid for entirely by a mobile phone network operator.

When I hear the horror stories about US phone network operators, I can't help but contrast it with how the Finnish networks behave. Finnish phone networks see themselves as mobile ISPs, they don't care which device you use, they don't care what you do with your connection, they don't lock you down in any way. All they care about is that you pay your phone bill, you don't even have to sign a contract.

Now here's Saunalahti, a Finnish network operator, going even further by actively giving away free wi-fi routers which let you make free VOIP calls all over the country and in other countries too. They don't apparently care if it harms their revenues from phone bills, although I'm still wondering what exactly they do intend to get out of this in the long term.

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

It cost's 2 euro/hour to use Wippies Wifi if you are non member. At least that's what they're getting; ubiquitous commercial wifi coverage. Or they are trying to get, wifi doesn't really work very well because routers are placed in apartments and potential paying customers are out in the street.

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

Are you sure about the 2 euro thing? I couldn't find anything on the Wippies website even mentioning non-member access, though that does make sense, and it's what Fon is trying to do. It's still very surprising for a phone network to do this though.

Is there any chance this idea could be done with Wimax routers in the future? That would presumably make the coverage issue less important.

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

You have to try it before you see the prices. I even paid it once :) There were other price/time combinations too, it is very comparable to fifiwifi pricing.

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

But there were no instructions about even trying it, the entire site just talks about setting up the homeboxes.

How exactly do you try it as a non-member, and how did you find out how non-members try it?

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

find a wippies router and connect to it's open wlan :)

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

This is the part I never understood, how do I know it's a wippies router?

According to the map there are several wippies routers near me, but I don't see anything called "wippies" on the list of nearby access points.

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

oh, in that case it's hard to understand my gibberish :)

Wippies routers are have SSID "Wippies VOIP", "Wippies something" etc. Every Wippies router have 3 SSID's (if I recall correctly) and one of those is open for (paying) public.

Your experience show that Wippies and Fon like systems are not really making any good for wifi coverage, because home routers are placed in apartments. Weak transmission power and thick walls and nothing works :)

But if you happen to live in Helsinki, I have used wippies near Finnair Stadium and have seen good signal stength Kauppatori, but no promises :)

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

Hmm.. 'Wippies' won't go down well in the Netherlands where 'wippie' means 'quickie' in the naughty sense.

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

So if a Wippies connection is open it should say "Wippies whatever" on the list of connections? And if I can't see any like that then they aren't within range?

I did look up some of the discussion of range on the Wippies forum, and it seemed to vary quite a lot. Some people could get the connection in the middle of the street, while others couldn't even get it in the next room.

Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, maybe in the future this could be done with Wimax routers for better range? But maybe the ISPs wouldn't like that...


Oh dear :D

That reminds me of an Indian car company called Reva which wanted to introduce its cars to Europe. Reva in Finnish means... erm... something you'd find between your legs (well, some people would).

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

Yes, that's right

That depends... If there are customer level wimax basestations I guess they are using unlicensed frequencies and that their transmission power would be limited. According to wikipedia article unlicensed band for wimax is around 5 GHz. I don't know if there is any terminals available for 5 GHz band..

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

On the name thing, I read something on the Wippies support forums that you could rename the access point. Is it possible people are renaming theirs and accidentally making it impossible to tell it's Wippies? If so that's rather a stupid option... :-)


Sorry, yes, obviously this would require a new generation of handsets. If they became available though, presumably this Fon/Wippies model would work much better than it does now?

I would still worry about how the ISPs would react though, which makes it interesting that Saunalahti are doing this because they're an ISP too.

Someone on the Wippies board suggested that Saunalahti should give away free access to anyone who sets up a Wippies router, which might be an interesting way to grow the network quickly.

Like you say though, if the network can't be picked up in the street or nearby buildings, there's no point in building it.

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

If consumer wimax basestations would have same 200 mW maximum ERP as wi-fi and 5 GHz frequency, I don't see it working any better than 200 mW wi-fi at 2 GHz. Of course I or my assumptions might be wrong.

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

...so where does this idea come from then that Wimax has a much longer range than Wifi?

I can't remember much from physics lessons, but could it be that Wimax's higher frequencies penetrate further through walls etc?

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

Higher frequency penetrates less. Higher the frequency, more line-of-sight connection is needed.

Operator run wimax basestations can use much more power. For example 3G basestations can have 40 W or even 60 W antenna power. High power transmitter needs network planning and guarantee that nobody else is using the same frequency. That's why operators need lisenced spectrum.

I guess that wimax has better channel coding than 802.11b/g which would mean slightly better performance. But 802.11n (the new wi-fi) is giving the same promises for consumer level wireless network. Given that I haven't seen any wimax basestations for consumer market and 802.11n-draft basestations have been sold "for ages" means that most likely 802.11 is the way for homes.

Re: Wippies: a Fon-like service run by a phone network operator
 

So is there any standard likely to be available to consumers which will be able to reliably transmit to people in the street outside?