The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

The n800 rocks for air travel! I'm constantly on the go by air, rail and road. I've tried everything to stay productive and entertained while on these trips, and my n800 has become indispensable. I have almost eliminated the need to carry a laptop while traveling, and in many situations the n800 is far superior to a laptop.

The n800, unlike the laptop computer or cell phone, can be used during any air travel phase in which any electronic device is allowed. In addition, because the n800 is compact in size with a low profile, it can be used even in tight configurations such as the middle row or window seats with the forward seat reclined. The n800's combination of productivity and entertainment features make it a superior choice for serious travelers.

My full analysis of the n800 vs. laptop for air travel is here.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Nice review. For those 12-hour LA-to-Moscow runs, I think I'd prefer a small laptop, battery permitting, and if I get the guy reclining in front of me I'd just listen to something.

But I'm surprised you didn't mention that with a cheap gps attachment, you can check the speed and location of your plane from the N800, which might be handy. I'm always trying to figure out what I'm seeing out the window, and I'm planning to take advantage of the gps for landmark identification.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Are there any airlines in the US, that currently have inflight wifi?

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

My gps does NOT work most of the time during flight, except on landing and take off. because of the altitude of the flight? Mine is transatlantic flight, presumably much higher than domestic flight, I guess?

bun

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

I remember seeing in this forum someone posted a picture of N810 in the airplane showing close to 1000km/h ground speed... so it (GPS) should work but it may take long time to get a fix...

Likely the N810 has to be at the window, otherwise the metal walls of airplane supress the satellite signals? No?

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Sorry, Mara and other readers, I did not make myself clear enough. It was a N800 with BT GPS, it has been performing excellent in USA but cannot get a fix in China. It was sometime log on ok in HK and rarely made it during the flight. That was 12/07, I did not have a N810 at that time. I was travelling with N800 and 770 and again, I already noticed at that time, the 770 battery last much longer and was serving as a fail-safe to my N800. Surprise, surprise.

I still dont get even today, why my BT GPS fix in less than a second inside the house in USA but wont even fix in southern China. I posted that question when I am back here, do not recall seeing any good explanation.

bun

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Here's the cool thread with pix of the guy getting air speed enroute to the Canary Islands:

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...p?t-14487.html

I never actually tried it from the air, but it was pretty amusing to check the speed of a cruise ship I was on...

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

:eek: I thought that you can not use any RF transmitting device during flight... I had that thought in the past with my N800 and BT GPS but never tried because of this reason...

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

I have been using a gps in flights long before the 770 even existed, and I have been using a bluetooth GPS in plane with the N800. It works, if the gps is very near to the window. I usually leave the GPS on the window and close the blind with the GPS behind it...

TO have a better chance to get a fix, make sure the GPS has got a fix on the ground the same day. It is quite tricky for the GPS to acquire a cold fix in flight.


Bluetooth and wifi are designed to minimize interference. Wifi can be used in flight, and some companies even have on-board wifi.

OTOH, using RC games, CB or even CD players is not a very good idea.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Well... it is not a question if it works, but as long as I know it is forbidden to use it in airplane during flight. Bluetooth is considered a two way radio... so it is requested to keep turned off during the duration of the flight.

There are only very few airlines with WiFi on board. (Lufthansa few years ago? Are they still doing this?) WiFi (B and G) uses the same frequency band than Bluetooth... so it would be ridiculous if they ban Bluetooth if WiFi was allowed, but in other cases (No WiFi) I do not see how Bluetooth would be allowed?

Maybe someone can shed some light on this issue...

EDIT: Just did dig deeper on this and found out these rules of different airlines about their accepted device use during flight:

British Airways: Allow use of Bluetooth devices on their planes.
American Airlines: Forbid Bluetooth, as well as use of any GPS device!
Finnair: Allow GPS devices but forbid Bluetooth.
Lufthansa: Couldn't find information.
United Airlines: Bluetooth nor GPS not mentioned, but forbid use of any AM or FM transmitting device.

I haven't checed other airlines... but may do later...

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

This is the rule published by American Airlines. Other carriers' rules may differ in details...

Devices with transmitting capabilities may only be used if the transmit capability is turned off and can be verified by a flight attendant (example: combination cell phone/PDA devices or laptop computers with wireless capabilities). During flight, never use cell phones (to make or receive calls), two-way pagers, radios, TV sets, remote controls (example: DVD, CD, game, or toy remote controls), a cordless computer mouse, commercial TV cameras, or Global Positioning Systems. Radio transmission using personal communications devices (example: walkie-talkies, two-way pagers, or wireless headphones) is prohibited, as it may interfere with the aircraft's communications and navigation systems.

http://www.aa.com/aa/pubcontent/en_U...ip_PersonalDev

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

I have always wondered if a bunch of people with prohibited devices turned on in their pockets could cause serious problems to the plane. In an advanced form this could become a terrorist weapon.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

I agree... but I did not create the rules...

Instead of starting the arqument here, please check this argument instead... :rolleyes:
http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.p.../04/18/1915237

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

It's a movie plot threat. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Maybe they are really paranoid you will spot it when they are lost!

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Yeah. As far as I know, your basic GPS is just a receiver.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

During takeoff and landing, please stop ALL electronics, that includes.....

That is what I understand. and afterawhile they will make announccement now you can use your electronics or notebook computer. That is the time I took out my BT toys and play. No. My GPS is a toy. I would not attempt to violate ANY rule intentionally for playing with my toy. I am an average joe, so does most travellers and the air steward/ess team. I only remember electronics, notebook computer and cellphone. I doubt the instructions breaks down to which types of electronics. Finally, there is only one icon on your overhead to signal that you are allow to use electronics.

I tried a couple of times, just to see where things stand. My cell, treo w alltel, does NOT work while we are in the air. My GPS failed to pick up signal when we are allowed to do so.

@Geneven: Yes, I saw those pics. I still believe it has something to do with your altitude, once you got to certain altitude, you will NOT pick up anything. Will somebody has wings and has brain step up please?



bun

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Pardon my naivete, but shouldn't gps units at high altitude be closer to satelites and thus get. stronger signals?

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

bun, you forgot one word... they say "you can use your approved electronic devices..." Any device that transmits radio frequencies are not approved electronic devices, and forbidden to use during the entire flight. (In general... some airlines have exceptions such as British Airways as I just learned today...)

Maybe next time when you are on the flight you can ask the flight attendants if you can use your Bluetooth GPS receiver... :rolleyes:

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

More info here, Airlines which OFFICIALLY APPROVE the use of GPS receivers during CRUISE., http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm
and more info here, Is it Safe to use a handheld GPS Receiver on a Commercial Aircraft? http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/gpsrfi.htm

I report, you decide (stole from Fox news :) )

bun

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

I am not here to tell you to do something illegal. I just pointed out that bluetooth and wifi are designed to minimize interference. Whether you are allowed to use them or not lies under the responsibility of the pilot. Emirates has an in-flight wifi network on some of their fleet.

It is actually a good thing that bluetooth and wifi are designed to minimize interference. You don't imagine the number of devices using either technology that are likely to be on during flight. Many users don't know how to switch off their laptop wifi and bluetooth. Modern game consoles have wifi (yes, that kid next seat playing on his DS lite uses an active wifi device). People turn their phone off, and forget about their headset. Etc, etc...

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

anyone feel like digging up that mythbusters episode where a ground crew instrument tech talks about the aircrafts strobes being known to affect the instruments at times?

still, with the strobes the cockpit has a known cause and effect. if someone in there hits the switch for the strobes and see the instruments go all over the place, then turn them back of and see it settle down, then they report it and know about it.

its when no matter of hitting switches or similar helps that the people up front starts to get confused. and confused crew leads to crashes from what i understand...

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Well they're indeed designed to reduce the impact of interference during communication, but this only means that two communicating (and already synchronized) devices will 'jump' together to a new channel where to communicate. This will happen at every message AFAIK.
This does NOT reduce interference on the airplane instruments.

Newer planes have their cables protected by external signals, other do not.
And no one took its time to check if a device actually interferes with the instruments and how much. So they take the easy path and forbid use. [1]

Actually they are even worried about the "implicit" signals leaked by a running device. The chips themselves emit a wave of signals and those too can interfere.
So, for them and at least during take off and landing, it's much more easier to force you to turn them off.

[1] with "no one" I mean official sources, not mythbusters :p

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

I remember that one :)
Pretty funny.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

I suggest that you read the Wikipedia description of bluetooth, point "Air interface", or turn a spectrum analyser at a working bluetooth transmitter. Bluetooth switches channels 1600 times a second.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Don't know what your definition of a brain is here, but the plane you are sitting in has a fully functional GPS system, so why would it not work?
Sure if you go beyond the height of the satellites you are going to have to do some fancy calculations, but in a commercial airliner you are fairly safe.

Whether you can pick up much inside the passenger compartment of a plane I don't know (although I don't see why not).

The only other thing I could foresee, is that to enable a quick pickup, most sold GPSs make certain assumptions to get a lock, and one of those assumptions may be that you are not going several hundred miles an hour, several miles up, so it is down to the individual unit as to how it performs.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

If such assumptions are a problem, it still might be able to keep a lock, supposing you don't have to turn it off during takeoff.

Oh, and airplanes are big aluminum tubes; I think a window seat will definitely be desirable for getting a lock in the air... probably enough signal gets in through the windows to keep a lock in any seat, but I'm obviously just speculating.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

"it's much more easier to force you to turn them off."

But of course they don't force you to turn them off. They ask you to turn them off. As I pointed out in my semi-joke about using them as a terrorist weapon, there is nothing preventing people from turning them on in their pockets.

And if someone DOES leave their gps or other device turned on, is there technology on the plane that would allow the authorities to find the culprit? I doubt it.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Well, no, a GPS is a receiver, it doesn't transmit anything.

From my point of view though, if you are on a plane and they ask you to turn something off, regardless of the technical merit of the request, I would just consider it rude to not do so!

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

To Tabletrat and Geneven: I stand corrected. I agree, in general, GPS should work under most altitude, mine is not, dont know why. And as other people has put it, theirs work in USA/Europe/Asia. Mine does not work in Asia at all. But now I am back in USA, the BT GPS works like a charm. Does GPS has to log with a 'particular' satellite, or any satellite, with tirlaterization will do? witch crafts!

bun

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

I know that on my garmin I had to go into the settings and change the region so it would read GPS over the Middle East, otherwise it just kept trying to find GPS Satellites over the US. I didn't see any way to do that with the n810 though.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Not the height. You are actually closer to the satellites up there. But consumer GPS receivers will not give a position if they detect you are going above a certain speed. The idea is to not let them be used as part of a guidance system for some type of missile.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

That's right, RECEIVERS. Bluetooth GPS units are also TRANSMITTERS, and are not allowed.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

I'm not sure, but they may be specialized not to have the threshold consumer GPSs do, or to have a higher one. Or, probably more likely, you do travel fast enough on a plane to hit the threshold for either, and the one gentleman's receiver is just idiosyncratic.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

I've used my handheld Mio GPS during flight (GPS is receive-only, so allowed during flight). It works ok as long as I'm in a window seat. Further inside the aircraft you're basically inside a Faraday cage = no signal. It's really cool to capture a 3D track and then plot the 3D flight path in Google Earth.

I've seen various people theorize previously that airspeed or altitude might be the explanation for failure to get a position fix, but neither of those are true - it's just satellites in view and signal strength.

Technically you aren't allowed to use Bluetooth devices during commercial flights since they transmit, and you aren't allowed to use any electronic devices during takeoff/landing. In reality both restrictions are probably overly cautious. Researchers testing and recording the cabin RF environment on commercial flights report that virtually every airline flight has at least several people who have forgotten to turn off their cell phones and/or WiFi devices. However I wouldn't recommend violating airline restrictions, or might get you kicked off a flight - you might as well argue that your 125ml toothpaste tube is not a dangerous explosive. :-)

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Correct, I'm not sure what the threshold here is, though. I know I've gotten a lock at around 550MPH with my i-Blue 737 more than once, though.

With most consumer GPS units the issue will be one of velocity, not necessarily because of internal locks, but because the receivers have a hard time getting lock at higher speeds.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Sounds plausible, but not really. The position fixing firmware is all built into the GPS chipset - probably one of the same chipsets that's used in airborne GPS receivers. Wouldn't be much use if it couldn't get a fix at normal flight speeds, would it? I normally have to hold mine up to the window to get an initial fix in a reasonable amount of time, but after that it's good. Doesn't make any difference if the aircraft is sitting at the gate or in flight at full speed.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

No, aircraft don't use consumer GPS chips. :\

Moving has an effect on the position of the satellites relative to you and complicates the locking calculations, resulting in longer lock times.

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Might once have been true, but no longer. Google "aeronautical" and "SiRFStar III". Convergence.

Theoretically true, but the effect is not very significant with modern GPS chipsets, and hard to separate from the effect of being inside a metal box (car or plane).

Re: The n800: Ultimate Computer for Air Travel
 

Let's remember, the airlines were about to allow cellphone calls during flights. They would have to install a cell tower, so to speak, in each aircraft to pick up your signal and transmit down to the earth towers. They were going to charge ~$1.00/minute. There was such a hue and cry from the public not to allow this, that for the time being it is a dead issue. So, the airline knows that there is no problem (European airlines do allow cellphones) with cellphones when there is a profit to be made. So if in fact cellphones are safe during flight, then gps is definately safe.