What's in a name?
 

Re: What's in a name?
 

I'm submitting a few logos as well, but will wait until the last week. :D

Re: What's in a name?
 

I like your logo, but...

I wonder how you can capture the fact that maemo.org has some very talented developers in it, giving free applications both to the "community" and to a large, international corporation that is only very slowly moving towards giving to the "community" in the same way. Yes, OK, they're doing more than most big corporations, but really, it seems like all the best apps on the tablets have come from the community, not from the organization that sells the hardware and hosts the files in their repositories. Even the good apps are built on the shoulders of other open source projects, and more often than not, the final product on the tablet seems closed, secretive, and not very interoperable. A perfect example is the browser. It is a Maemo wrapper around the Firefox engine. Try running it in any window manager other than Maemo's version of matchbox window manager, and it just will not work. Or try to get the camera and mic working with any standard Linux app that works with every other webcam and mic. You'll be in for hours of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

just a note: your "g" looks like a "q".

EDIT: Hm, that turned into quite a rant.

Re: What's in a name?
 

Qolled again! :D

Re: What's in a name?
 

And what is wrong with that? One organization puts in place a platform and the minimum set of features to make it useful to end users. Third parties develop additional applications for it with different levels of quality and success.

This isn't a special platform development story, isn't it. However, it starts becoming kinda special when these third parties collaborate in an open community. And this is the role plaid by the maemo.org name.

Btw, an interesting exercise would be to make that list with all the best apps and see what is the role of Nokia as a community player, in terms of people working at/for Nokia developing on Maemo for fun, projects supported directly or indirectly with Nokia funds... You make a bright separation between Nokia and the community, but the facts probably tell otherwise.

Re: What's in a name?
 

This is exactly what I like from the maemo.org community.
Nokia is part of it.

I usually never take extreme positions.
I am in favor of open source, but not against commercial applications (if the commercial companies play fair).
I am in favor of commercial applications, but not against open source ones.

I see quality in both of them.
I demand from both of them what can be reasonably demanded.
I might not pretend from an open source, free application a particular feature or even a bug fix, but I might pretend it from a commercial one I paid for.
And examples go on like that.

In Maemo.org there's no real bright line. We all play together on a common platform.
I can choose to develop on it only for the fun of it.
I can choose to develop on it for fun and decide to make money out of it.
I can choose to develop on it just to make money out of it.
Nokia is providing me all the tools I need. The decision is up to me.

What differentiate it from other platforms is that all the tools that Nokia gave me, are free.
On the iPhone I would have to pay even if I choose to make my application free.
On Symbian and Windows Mobile is the same.
The tools to develop are not free (AFAIK).
That's understandable even if I do not agree with it. Those platform are targeted at a completely different kind of community.
Fair.

What I'd like to see in the logo is this collaboration.
I has to look as an open source/free logo. You look at it and you think about openness and freedom.
I hope the chosen one will make this .. clear.

Update: jussi logo, for example, reflects what I've said about collaboration. There is a line, not bright, but is there. We all collaborate. I like it.

Re: What's in a name?
 

To quote qgil, "And what is wrong with that?"

But, in truth, I don't think the client (in this case the Maemo community) has to accept every quirk the designer suggests. While not advocating design by committee, I say there's nothing wrong with tweaking the winning design to account for the real world.

The "g" in the handlettered font could be changed if clarity/readability were really threatened (as it might be if used in all the tabs and titles).

Re: What's in a name?
 

When you want to win an auction, you "snipe" — put in your bid at the last-possible moment to prevent anyone outbidding you. But is that the right strategy for this kind of contest?

As much as the prize is improbably grand — a trip to Berlin?! — l say we put our ideas (verbal and visual) into play now, so as to inspire the best design possible. If someone can build on your notion and create a better logo, well ... isn't a postcard from Berlin from the winner better than winning?

C'mon, Reggie. Show us your ideas now. :-)

Roger


PS: I like baksiidaa's solution so that the horizontal display and the vertical display both work without changing a thing.

And isn't that Share TechMono in GarethLWalt's design? I really like that font but I couldn't make it work in the logo the way he did!

Re: What's in a name?
 

A few must-have, third-party apps come to mind immediately:

• Maemo Mapper
• MPlayer
• MH Shot Tool
• Numpty Physics
• Personal Menu
• Quiver Image Viewer
• Maemopad+
• VNC Viewer
• Disk Usage
• Evince
• mYTube
• Advanced Brightness Settings applet
• Large Statusbar Clock
• Leafpad

I wish Nokia would hire the guys making / hildonizing these apps. Perhaps Nokia could follow Google's lead and have some paid freeform time where developers can work on interesting, personal tablet-related projects...

Re: What's in a name?
 

I ask this again, what is this fetish people have with Nokia-produced GUI applications? The result of this just seems to be UI-spec encumbered impossible-to-get-fixed junk.

Leave the diverse user-space experience to the community, who isn't encumbered by stupid corporate nonsense. Let Nokia put together the platform which all of this is built upon.

Re: What's in a name?
 

[*]MPlayer[*]MH Shot Tool

I believe the porter/creator of those apps do work for Nokia.

(MH = Maemo Hackers, inz works for nokia iirc and works on osso-xterm too)

Mplayer is Ed Bartosh and Siarhei Siamashka. Ed Bartosh's profile says he works for Nokia and I believe Siarhei Siamashka/Serge/ssvb does too.

Re: What's in a name?
 

Hear hear. Or is it "here here". Whatever. I agree.

Re: What's in a name?
 

I've used some (most) of those and they are for the most part very nice apps, but "must haves"? Of your list MPlayer is the only one I currently have installed. And I continue to enjoy using my N800 anyway.

Edit: I anticipate putting Numpty Physiscs and Maemo Mapper, and probably MyTube back on the device, once the OS upgrade is completed, if they still work then. Whenever the upgrade happens..

Re: What's in a name?
 

I think that's in line with my original rant

Yeah, except the platform tends to then have the problems that you mentioned.

BTW, the logo submissions so far are looking good!

Re: What's in a name?
 

There are some good submissions, yes. Of course the rest aren't... :)

Re: What's in a name?
 

Yes, I think most of us would agree to that; and we could probably start a flame war over which ones are in which category... Anyone game? ;)

Re: What's in a name?
 

Nope, i just wanted to say that they are not looking good to me :)

Re: What's in a name?
 

Lot of non-compliant submissions so far. . . .

Re: What's in a name?
 

I like the butterfly and moebius concepts from atilla and jussi: they're strong concepts which also have nice realisations. I think the butterfly could do with a more stark implementation, though, as at first glance it just looks a bit cartooney until you go "oh, butterfly!" (or it's pointed out to you).

This firming up of the branding, and the emphasis on the maemo.org community is all good stuff, though.

Re: What's in a name?
 

Interesting, a bunch of non-compliant submissions have been removed...

Re: What's in a name?
 

They've been moved to the Talk page; currently there are two reasons things are being moved over to there into a "discarded" section:

1) Not including the '.org' as a prominent part of the design.
2) Infringing someone else's trademark.

HTH,

Andrew

Re: What's in a name?
 

Ok, I've uploaded mine: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_logo...sions#rsuplido

I agree that Jussi's submission is a good one. Adding the mobius strip is a perfect idea.

Re: What's in a name?
 

Okay, I know this is sort of off-topic, but it fits in with the title of the thread. The name that Nokia should be concerned with is nothing to do with Maemo, or logos, or anything like that. Nokia needs a marketable description for the category that the n800 is filling. Internet Tablet just doesn't cut it, because its not a concept that makes sense to most, and it doesn't begin to describe what you can do on one.

I've taken to describing it to people as a "mini computer" instead because that's the only thing that the general public seems to understand. Coming up with a better name for the device for marketability reasons should trump any of this stuff about Maemo and its logos. Quite frankly, if they want these to catch on (supposedly theres 2 more steps for mass marketability), the public doesn't care about the name or logo for Maemo.

Edit: I know this sounds negative so I'll add... I'm very impressed with some of the submissions, but my point is just that it won't really accomplish much in the long run to have a logo contest.

Re: What's in a name?
 

This issue has been discussed to death before ("palmtop" was a favorite), but whether or not the formfactor needs a better name doesn't change the fact that the Maemo trademark and branding needed a major re-definition. :)

Besides, just because some of Nokia happens to be focusing on this, doesn't mean that they aren't paying attention to other issues. ;)

Re: What's in a name?
 

Wow, there are some AWESOME entries!!! :)

Re: What's in a name?
 

Also this is a logo contest for the community site and has nothing to do with Nokia's marketing stuff.

Re: What's in a name?
 

Well, I'm kinda in :) http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_logo...bmissions#wazd

Re: What's in a name?
 

And there is people working on this question. It has nothing to do with maemo.org and the logo contest.

Re: What's in a name?
 

http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_logo...sions#rrainist Well, I had to also draw something. :)

Re: What's in a name?
 

Remember my Nokia blog entry on that topic? :D You and Ragnar had some interesting observations.

Re: What's in a name?
 

I'm there now. ;)

(More to come.)

Tim

Re: What's in a name?
 

Posted some maemo.org "good vibes"... ;)

http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_logo...missions#mrunx

Re: What's in a name?
 

I wonder what's with the "e", its acting like a magnet.

Re: What's in a name?
 

People are too stuck on the current logo, I guess... so far few logos don't do something with the e (or make a ligature of the ae and do something with that).

Re: What's in a name?
 

I remember reading Karoliina's original description about the "e" and that influenced my first approach.

But then I got to thinking about what the focal point of "maemo.org" is, and to me that's where the "maemo" meets the "org" — or where the existing Maemo activity/software/platform gets handed off to the new org that is the Maemo community. And that's why there's a box centered on the dot in my newer version: When you describe M/maemo's evolution, the "e" doesn't mean anything, but the dot does.

That's also why I think the designs that shrink ".org" are communicating the wrong message (that we, the .org component, are less important than the maemo contribution of Nokia). Is that explicit in the design? Well, if Nokia reserves "Maemo" uses for itself, then any time Nokia's Maemo logo gets placed next to the community's maemo.org logo, it will be there for everyone to see: Maemo counts, not .org. If, on the other hand, we were designing the logo of a new company Maemo, Inc., then I could see shrinking the "Inc." part as being "part of the name but not the important part."

Does that mean ".org" should be emphasized by being bigger or brightly colored (and "maemo" either black or gray)? Not if we're not trying to send some opposite message of relative importance. In the design I submitted, I combined characters from a font with the same characters from the outline version of the font. That was a conscious decision, trying to express the idea of different voices and different views of the same ideal. But the serendipitous aspect was that the dot was identical in both fonts. So the two parts of the name combine with two linking/overlapped circle-dots, same size, different colors: equals.

Lest this rumination be misunderstood, I'm not saying "Choose the design I submitted because I have the best conception of the subtext of the logo." What I'm trying to say is, The best design will not only look the best/coolest — it also won't subconsciously contradict the goals of this entire effort. So we have to be sure to read what's in front of us when we look at these submissions.

Re: What's in a name?
 

Well, nice point of view but I think a bit wrong. The difference is that we are actually Maemo. Not only Nokia wizards and we are just cheerleaders, no. We are not an 'addition' to the Maemo platform, we are all in it, like a big family. You can ask for the help or propose yours and maemo guys will listen just like any others and that's what warms me most. That is the 'community' I think.