Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Sounds cool I'm always happy to help people out with non technical answers.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Hum ... could be a bad idea to divide a community ...

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

It's not really dividing. A lot of collaboration will be happening, and plus, the membership database is the same. Think of it as another set of forums in a different page.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Don't get me wrong, but this idea sounds redundant to me.

Two sites? Two forums? I don't get it. I think that a better organized ITT is the solution for the newbies issues, but who knows...

Just my two cents.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Again, think of it as another set of forums in a different page. It's using the same member database.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Not only do I think its a good idea to help new people but I almost left ITT the first time I was told to just go search and find the answer my self. This is something the community has needed for a long time. I personally think anyone who really doesn't want to help new people should just stay away from that site. Just my idea.

Edit: I just want everyone to know I'm not saying anyone who posted before me said to search the forums or don't want to help new people.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I won't deny I agreed with Khertan & amigokin but after reading andrewfblack's latest post, I can't deny that he has a point. I also can't deny that I'm one of the people that points others to the search button...

But really, was Tablet Scene the best name? To me, scene = warez :/ .I was expecting cracks for the Map application and leaked dsme source code :p

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I'm hoping this doesn't split the community, but instead strengthens it.
Those who enjoy helping the less knowledgable, such as myself, will hopefully spend time on Tablet Scene.
Those who don't have as much patience will at least be able to avoid pointing out the search button as frequently.

Tablet Scene sounds like a great extension of ITT and I look forward to visiting the new forums.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I'm one of the "relative" new members. Until today I didn't post one message, but I used the search button a lot of times with varying success. Example: To get informations how to install kde, plenty threads with several solutions. Which is to prefer? Informations, which repository setting to use with diablo, try it by Yourself, horrible.

So I looked into the wiki and I edited there some articles (little content, but links to forum postings regarding kde). All in all the wiki is in a poor condition. Wouldn't it be nice, if there would be a well supported wiki?

Another forum, another search button, another never ending postings?

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Agreed; it'll be easier to mainly disregard the newbie noise if it's in a different site instead of the newbie forum on this site. Is this slated to be a de facto replacement for the newbie forum, or will it only be taking some of the traffic? (And if so, what rule-of-thumb is to be used to sort what posts belong to which?)

(I like to help newbs (when they need help), but feel it's better for me to duck a lot of stuff in the newbie forum entirely; I'll meet up with anyone actually asking interesting or new questions eventually anyway, but I maintain lower blood pressure, and the forums are less scary for newbs. Win-win!)

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

First off congrats on your first post. It was a good one I agree that the wiki is a great tool but alot of people don't use it, some because they don't know how, others because they want everything to go to maemo.org wiki which is also in great need of work. I try to add things when I have times but really it takes alot of people to keep a wiki upto date.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I like the idea to a degree. I'd spend time there. Often I see enormous threads with tones of technical information that is really overwhelming to read through.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Thanks for that, you've put it really well. Perhaps one of the rules on Tablet Scene ought to be a ban on "why don't you use search?" posts... ;-)


Reggie and I went through a LOT of possible names, but they were all either taken or difficult to spell or difficult to pronounce or otherwise unsuitable for a general audience. :rolleyes:

We thought this name was simple, friendly, short, easy to spell, and implied a sense of community.

It may change if the maemo platform changes, for example if it becomes more than just tablets, but for the moment this is the best we could come up with... :-)


Some ITT forum members (for example GeneralAntilles and others) have put a lot of work into getting the wiki in a better condition, and there is a lot of good info on there. IMHO its problem though is that it doesn't have a target audience, some of the articles are aimed at new users while others require a lot of technical knowledge. Perhaps it ought to be split into two sections like ITT and Tablet Scene?

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I'll stay away... I like helping newbies... but I don't like repeating myself 300 times..If i've answered the same question dozens of times already (or seen it answered dozens of times) I'd just ignore the post if I am not allowed to say "Use Search".. Which may cause another problem.. If someone posts on your Tablet Scene and all the so-called 'experts' answering people are tired of answering that question they may just not answer.. meaning the newbies; instead of getting of mean "search it" answer; will get no answer.. and still feel bummed and quit.

Good luck with it though.. if it provides help to a couple people should be worth it..

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

A well supportes wiki on Tablet Scene would be great :)

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Like the Ubuntu fora?

/me ducks.


Edit: Let me add: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Unfortunately, it's hard to recommend this to the people who need it without being a "jerk", and if I'm going to be a "jerk", I may as well be a jerk, and not point them at useful resources. But everyone ought to read it and think about it, anyway, and it would be nice to have a reading comprehension test on it as part of the registration process ;).

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Hi,

I am one of those new members also.

Working on buying a N800 and have been looking around here to get some insight as to what I should expect.

Now, instead of looking for information on one site, the administration is asking us to frequent two sites for the information now.

Guess I am just a little confused there, and yes I have read the reasons for this move.

I know Reggie from Cliesource IE 1src and have a lot of respect there for him but this move is bewildering to me.

Are there enough members here to support two sites?

Have not seen the kind of traffic here when I visit to support this idea.

For me, being a newbie to the internet Tablet, you are maing things more difficult for me big time.

Thank you.


David

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

The search button in either forum should give results from both sites. And think having a different sub department on ITT for the newbies is a better idea. I like helping and also i like the latest hacks, it would be double the work to do both.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I don't think you have to type the whole answer out but if you what it is you can search it for someone and give them the link to the first post that answered it. The only problem with that is some anwsers get diluted but other stuff so I find its best to just tell them the anwser again.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I think this is a great idea! As long as it's policed reasonably well, it should certainly speed up the initial learning curve.

Some form of cross-referencing between forums would be handy, e.g. Simple method to link from TS to ITT threads maybe?

Sounds like the new site could be compared to a public company forum: No technical jargon and language intended for the wider audience.

Two separate Wiki's sounds like a good idea too.

With regards to the risk of splitting the user base, I think the potential gains out way the risk. Worst case scenario, the majority migrate to the new one, the original one remains and becomes a forum for Uber Tableteers! :D

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Yes but if you are telling the "answerer" to "search" to help the "newbie" that is completely backwards.

I'm with Benson.. If the question looks thought out and the asker presents themself in such a way that it appears they did do some work on their own to find it out.. I'll lay it out for them.. give them exact search words with a link directly to the article.

If they just pop up and post a question on something that was just answered and is still 2 threads beneath their own.... No. Not worth my time and energy helping people that don't want to help themself...

The old addage:
Catch a man a fish - feed him for a day..
teach a man to fish - feed him for life.

Seriously.. the Search button is a newbies best friend.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I think we should have a single site with new posts updated on the front page of both itt and its. and do away with logging in. it should be an unwritten rule that only peple whowant to help reply in the its section.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Sink or swim mentality has made the community all it is today ( good and bad ). Tablet Scene will, in theory, allow us to experiment with a currently under served portion of the community and possibly expand the community to many more users.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

But if the man has no idea what a fish is he doesn't know what he wants to eat.

Thanks about that one.

Also Barking at someone to go search for an answer is not teaching him to fish. Its telling him to go fishing.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Point taken.. however if I see someone ask a question about trout... and I say "search for fish" ... I shouldn't be looked at as a rude, callous jerk either :P.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Well put.

This is less of an issue when the OP edits the original post accordingly. The thread them becomes almost like a Wiki in it's own right.

I'm sure I've seen one or two threads where the Admins have "fixed" this where the OP isn't in a position to do this themselves.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I think its a good idea. Whenever someone asks for something in here, the most likely outcome is an answer that involves writing a novel in xterm, reflashing with a grapefruit, installing 14 different linux distros, shaking the tablet for 20 minutes and finally compile some kernel found on NASAs top security server which of course anyone can hack into.
Although thats a bit of an exaggeration, thats the way a lot of explenations seem like for people who are new to all of this. Its easy for people that know stuff to forget how it was when they didnt know it and so how to explain it properly. Personally ive never used linux outside the n800 and a lot of stuff on ITT (like mouse polling, screen rotate) ive stayed faaaar away from because i dont get half of the **** in the "how to"s.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I appreciate the extra effort to help someone like me who gets lost in the technical jargon.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I''m not sure if that's a comment on how it will work or a suggestion.
If it could be made to work that way, it would make things a lot easier and I'd think both sites would be more usefull.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Hi,

I would think, the same members here, who have the answers, will answer the questions there and in the same manner.

Not really seeing a change unless you are telling members they have to provide answers in a certain way on the new site or do not help.

Maybe a pessimistic way of seeing things but I happen to se it as being realistic.

I am not a newbie to forums and tech in any way and this is the way things go.

Trying to reinvent the wheel when you are using the same information and resources just gets you another wheel.

In the end, it may be helpful but is it necessary?


David

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

although my age and the number of posts qualify me a "senior member" i am by no means the most knowledgeable person in the forum. i have asked newbie questions and self-created problems and have at times from some folk been given - if you had searched blah blah blah..... well because i am stubborn (a by-product of being old) i have found the answer and learned from it.... that is me... on the other hand i can see many people (like my wife ) who actually bought an ipod touch rather than deal w/alot of what she considers snarkiness from what she saw in the forums.. ymmv....this is not a rant but i think this forum is not really designed for a casual end user but rather a serious hobbyist.

if the n8x0 series and beyond is to be a mass-market consumer item rather than a specialty item then there has to be a mass market type of forum... this forum does not fit that bill.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

When your wife wants to jailbreak that ipod touch, and start doing the sorts of things that are (or more easily can be) more commonplace on the Nokia Tablets, she may find herself facing an even more openly hostile and snarky bunch there than what she perceives of us, here... ;)

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

David, nice to see you here at itT.

I see your point. The objective here is not really to reinvent. It's not even to repeat information. If some really new user decides to ask about how to convert a video to internet tablet format, I would probably give him/her a list of different software to try, and then provide links to specific Internet Tablet Talk video converter threads. Right now, a similar post here in itT might not receive the same helpful response.

Eventually, we hope that as new users learn and know more about the ins and outs of Maemo devices, they would graduate from Tablet Scene to Internet Tablet Talk.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

How will a separate, more newbie-friendly forum help with that though?

Let's say I've just purchased my first tablet: a shiny, new N810. I've seen a video on YouTube demonstrating portrait web browsing, RSS reading, etc. on a tablet just like mine, and I want in on that fun. I find a web site with great, newbie-friendly fora for tablet questions, and I start a new thread asking how I can do what I've seen on YouTube.

Now, as you've written, basic, step-by-step directions to accomplish this task have already been posted here on Internet Tablet Talk many times. However, as you've also written, they're no good, as they require opening X Terminal. So, should the newbie helpers on the new site post the step-by-steps there anyway (effectively replicating Internet Tablet Talk), or should they tell the newbie to forget about screen rotation, it's just too difficult?

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I, for one, applaud the initiative!

It is also possible to merge data back on forth.

Some people just want the device to work, and they have some small questions. If other users would like to help them out, there is no issue of UTFS.

Searching is a whole art by itself.

Teach a man to fish who just can't get the hand of it, and he has a long beard & wasted a lot of time to get at a solid level whereas the man is a terrific shepherd.

In our society, specializing in a tool of the trade is mandatory.

Every person has their positive and negative traits.

If you want the NIT to be user friendly you need to lower the barrier for people who are less technically inclined. One thing is for sure: Nokia wants this. And given the clones arrising there is a bit pressure to get the ball rolling. Even if your relate this still on intelligence (I suggest one doesn't) these people aren't idiots, the users here aren't uber. Thinking in such lines is incredibly arrogant, and I see several people in this thread arguing in such manner. The irony is that this alone justifies this change! :D

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Agreed. Some people on the ITT forums could use some basic "human compassion" training. Sometimes I feel a smart *** comment welling up but I repress it most of the time. I let off on older members because it's all good, but the amount of times noobs have been flamed for asking for help is ridiculous.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I see what you mean, but I think part of the goal of the new site is to keep it concise and clear, not only for less technically minded people, but even those techies new to the Tablet that haven't got the time or inclination to read through a long (albeit an educational & comprehensive) 30 page thread. Also, nothing wrong with referencing existing threads remember.

I expect a lot of us would initially need to think twice before submitting a response, to consider the target audience and maybe crop / amend as required.

Maybe a key will help :D

itT = Uber [wannabe] Tableteers
TS = Everyone welcome, don't be scared, no geek talk! :)

Well, at least that's how I see it [going].

Sounds pretty good to me! :)

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

For sure, Faz. BTW, many communities have 'newbie friendly' platforms. Like kernelnewbies.org is for Linux kernel development. In the longer term it has the potention to get more people into Linux kernel development (even if its a small patch). You can't have people to go to university right away; first elementary school & college. There is a reason these schools are all in different buildings & locations; they specialize for different audiences.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I agree that the current situation isn't very newbie friendly. Part of it is caused the fragmentation and inconsistencies of the various websites, which is what Quim is working on.

Another factor is the neglection of the ITT Wiki. But you won't solve this by creating yet another one. The main problem is how to keep the content up to date and well organized. And I would rather have one well kept wiki with some kind of difficulty rating for how-tos. Maybe it's time for better wiki software so it's easier (and more fun) to maintain/tag/organize/search for content?

I think the idea of article style how tos is great. Newbies won't search for something in the wiki if they don't know that you can do something in the first place. How about add some video tutorials?

I don't agree there is much unfriendlyness to newbie generally here. Compared to other forums I think it's actually quite civilized and friendly. And asking people to search and ask proper questions is just basic forum etiquette. The problem as I see it is that newbies wll read about things like running Debian or cloning to SD without realizing that those things are actually advanced hacks.